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The new "Wake the Dead" boxset is also good - if you have a friend who wants some Primaris space marines, it is excellent value!

kingheff wrote:

So overall I think the start collecting box is pretty decent, it may not contain the top units according to the meta but you get decent options and if you combine it with the eldar half of the wake dead box set you don't really have to add much to make a very useable army.

Just a rough list in battlescribe makes for around 1,000 point army with the SC and WtD boxes. A little over 1k as I was clicking gear, but you could probably drop something or take cheeper options to get under. Reasonably well balanced force. Good mix of firepower and mobility, nice support. Drawback is lack of CPs. Only detachment that’s going to fit is a patrol. But pick up 2 more troops and you are a battalion. Pick up one more elite/HS and you can calve those off to their own detachment. Good basis for starting an army.

Let's talk about the wraithlord, one of my favourite units for Eldar (especially if you give one or two the helms from the webway portal set, they then look like wraithlord characters)

I know it has no invuln, and is not the fastest cat in the bag, but where is the sweet spot points wise for it?

I'm considering running barebones plus sword for just 113pts. For that price point, he's still T8 with 10 wounds, and hits like a beast in melee (I usually play Iyanden so the degrading statline is less of an issue). I also have one gun lord with brightlance and AML, but he rarely makes his points (148) and needs either Guide or an Autarch around for rerolls.

So, what weapons are feasible on the Lord that don't wrack up his points to unplayable levels?

Shuriken cannons seem good as they are Assault which means the boy can still move with advance, but there are better platforms for the cannon IMHO. Each brightlance adds 20pts to him and hits only 50% of the time when he moves. Just doesn't seem like a good place for an AT platform. The starcannon is an interesting choice as it's reasonably priced, but still doesn't like moving. It really seems to me that just the sword or possibly shuricannon is the only viable choice for these fellas.

It really comes down to what role you need the WL to play. I typically run them in one of two configurations. Both clock in ~130 points.

Supporting a gunline while providing anti-melee threat? Dual starcannons.

Supporting a Wraithguard or close combat rush? Sword + dual shuricannons.

I favour sword, 2 shuricannons and 2 catapults advancing just behind some Wave Serpents. If you opponent shoots the Serpents, their shields reduce incoming damage by 1 and they face the Wraithlord(s) hitting their lines. If they shoot the WLs, they have to get through the T8 and the Serpents will survive to deliver their cargoes and Mortal Wounds.

The Glaive/Shuricannon Lord is cheap enough to function as an effective distraction-carnifex. The Glaive is vital IMHO for the jump from S7 to S9. There are a lot of T7 and T8 targets out there and also you will be wounding T4 targets on a 2+. A pair of Glaive-Lords can even do decent damage to targets like Knights if they can get the charge.

As a quick aside on wraithlords, I was running some test fights against guilliman with different models. I found that three wraithlords would always take him out, these were the basic two catapults and fists variety. Two could take him out sometimes if they attacked first but it was far from certain.
I think it shows the melee capabilities of the wraithlord quite nicely, the problem usually lies in getting them there!

I have been using one in a couple of games with glaive, twin shuricannon and twin shuricat. It has been pretty effective for me in both games, surviving both and dishing out plenty of harm in both. Not sure it made back its points but it came close even with shocking rolls in one game and didn't die, so I'll take that.

hvg3akaek wrote:
The new "Wake the Dead" boxset is also good - if you have a friend who wants some Primaris space marines, it is excellent value!

That's a fantastic starter force, really hope they keep it around

It’s a little odd that all the other wraith units get a special rule, but the WL just is a ball of basic stats. I think he’s functional, but a little overpriced and doesn’t have a solid role. I’d like to see him get relentless back. Just the idea of him calmly striding across the battlefield casually blasting things apart seems to fit. And give him the role of mobile fire support and CC backup, reinforcing the lines of guardians.

Love the model though. He’s the primary reason I bought 2 SC: Craftworlds boxes. Built my fire support one, next up I need to start on the CC version.

still think its odd there's not a ++ sheild that comes in WL size, darn that copy/paste since 4th laziness

 Puganaut wrote:

hvg3akaek wrote:
The new "Wake the Dead" boxset is also good - if you have a friend who wants some Primaris space marines, it is excellent value!

That's a fantastic starter force, really hope they keep it around

Hate to bring bad news but these boxes aren't designed to stick around. They are short period discount boxes that will eventually be retired and replaced by another. Knight renegade box for example is already out as are many of the previous ones. If you feel you want this you shouldn't wait too long. Now no need to panic buy right away but I would be surprised if that's still on sale after this year ends except for odd ones in some remote stores that never managed to sold(surprising what you can find that way. I found mint 5th ed fantasy magic box once in a game store couple years ago...There it had sat for like 2 decades unsold)

 Nevelon wrote:
It’s a little odd that all the other wraith units get a special rule, but the WL just is a ball of basic stats. I think he’s functional, but a little overpriced and doesn’t have a solid role. I’d like to see him get relentless back. Just the idea of him calmly striding across the battlefield casually blasting things apart seems to fit. And give him the role of mobile fire support and CC backup, reinforcing the lines of guardians.

Love the model though. He’s the primary reason I bought 2 SC: Craftworlds boxes. Built my fire support one, next up I need to start on the CC version.

Spoiler:

Cant agree with all of this strongly enough.

tneva82 wrote:

 Puganaut wrote:

hvg3akaek wrote:
The new "Wake the Dead" boxset is also good - if you have a friend who wants some Primaris space marines, it is excellent value!

That's a fantastic starter force, really hope they keep it around

Hate to bring bad news but these boxes aren't designed to stick around. They are short period discount boxes that will eventually be retired and replaced by another. Knight renegade box for example is already out as are many of the previous ones. If you feel you want this you shouldn't wait too long. Now no need to panic buy right away but I would be surprised if that's still on sale after this year ends except for odd ones in some remote stores that never managed to sold(surprising what you can find that way. I found mint 5th ed fantasy magic box once in a game store couple years ago...There it had sat for like 2 decades unsold)

On the other hand...the forgebane one is still around, the tooth and claw one has just been released, and how wake the dead is coming out. Will they have three on sale together? More? We should at least see the other two drop off a while before the eldar one does?

hvg3akaek wrote:
On the other hand...the forgebane one is still around, the tooth and claw one has just been released, and how wake the dead is coming out. Will they have three on sale together? More? We should at least see the other two drop off a while before the eldar one does?

Those are still new releases though. And yes those will go out first assuming they sell at equal pace but no evidence says GW has changed their periodic limited time discount boxes release system. Too many boxes permanently would be inconvenient for stores as well.

And I'm not saying it's going to happen soon but if you think you want one might want to get one before it goes away. I didn't with first renegade release and missed again second renegade release(got 1 but was planning to get another) as I delayed getting 2nd box too long.

Only starter sets are kept around longer and this is NOT starter set(GW even specifically refers to it as battle box).

Hi, I'm a bit confused, hopefully someone can clear this up.
The cost of the wraithseer in the imperial armour book is 150 pts but battlescribe lists him as 125. His d cannon has also dropped from 50 to 45. I can't find a points change in the faq or did I just look in the wrong place?

tneva82 wrote:
Only starter sets are kept around longer and this is NOT starter set(GW even specifically refers to it as battle box).

This. Unless they explicitly mark it as a starter set for something they won't keep it in stock forever. Forgebane is no longer being listed as well as Adepticus Titanicus.

kingheff wrote:
Hi, I'm a bit confused, hopefully someone can clear this up.
The cost of the wraithseer in the imperial armour book is 150 pts but battlescribe lists him as 125. His d cannon has also dropped from 50 to 45. I can't find a points change in the faq or did I just look in the wrong place?

Don't know eldar rules that well but if I would have to make an educated guess it's from chapter approved 2017 which altered points on quite a lots of units. If it's not in any FAQ that's the most likely culprit.

tneva82 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Hi, I'm a bit confused, hopefully someone can clear this up.
The cost of the wraithseer in the imperial armour book is 150 pts but battlescribe lists him as 125. His d cannon has also dropped from 50 to 45. I can't find a points change in the faq or did I just look in the wrong place?

Don't know eldar rules that well but if I would have to make an educated guess it's from chapter approved 2017 which altered points on quite a lots of units. If it's not in any FAQ that's the most likely culprit.

Ah, thanks for that. Great news about the wraithseer, I can see an incomparable hunter warlord armed with d cannon being tested soon!
Can't believe the Scorpion got increased to 700 when the consensus seemed to be it was overpriced at 650, ho hum.

So are Rangers better or worse post FAQ?
They changed their deployment rule so that instead of being deployed just after deployment, they are placed at the end of any Move phase.
But the Tactical Reserve change also means any unit arriving mid-battle like this cannot do so in the first battle round.

So Rangers cannot drop in until turn 2.
Personally, this isn't too bad as Rangers are my only Troops and I need them later anyway.
But it does mean that I can no longer use them to screen in the first turn (or second turn if I go second), which may not be necessary since NOTHING can drop near you in the first turn anymore (things that uses to "infiltrate" now "scout" instead).
Still have to worry about move twice abilities, though

Also, what do we think of the "second player gets cover" Strat?

-

In the Big FAQ section there is an errata for the Yncarne that does not seem to be in xenos 1. It says he can be deployed normally rather than having to wait until something dies to teleport in. Kinda something I suppose.

Also, what do we think of the "second player gets cover" Strat?

I think Eldar do well out of this. It's most effective on 3+ sv units, so all our tanks + Wraithlords and shining spears.

I don't like the rangers change. Will make them a lot less useful for objective grabbing.

The strat is a bit meh as you're usually in cover or out of LOS turn1.
If that is the case with rangers then they've took a hit and no doubt about it.
Also the shift-shroud has been taken out back, it specifies 1st movement phase.

I think Rangers were nerfed, but in many ways an acceptable nerf as it applies to everyone else either way. It just means fewer armies with 3 x MSU Ranger squads to fill battalion possibly.

They are still decent and cheap character snipers so there is that.

The new strat is interesting but I would need to see it in action before making a judgment.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think Rangers were nerfed, but in many ways an acceptable nerf as it applies to everyone else either way. It just means fewer armies with 3 x MSU Ranger squads to fill battalion possibly.

They are still decent and cheap character snipers so there is that.

For me, it just reinforces them as my only viable Troop. DAs are a bit meh and Guardians need to drop in via WWP, which can't happen until turn 2 anyway.
We can still deploy Rangers turn 1 as normal, which keeps them as a viable screen, but now we can actually drop them in later to snatch Objectives that aren't near big threats.
So while a nerf of the typical tactic, I'm actually starting to warm to the change as a good late-game tactic that doesn't require CPs.

It's not like Rangers do much offense for me anyway.

-

So does that also mean an Alaitoc HQ can freely deepstrike mid-game with the Shimmerplume Shiftshroud now?

Sterling191 wrote:
So does that also mean an Alaitoc HQ can freely deepstrike mid-game with the Shimmerplume now?

No, it means they cannot use Deep Strike in matched play.

 mokoshkana wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
So does that also mean an Alaitoc HQ can freely deepstrike mid-game with the Shimmerplume now?

No, it means they cannot use Deep Strike in matched play.

That's rubbish (from GW). They must errata the Shriftshroud ASAP, in Chapter Approved or sooner. Half the relic is useless in Matched? That's acceptable how?
We must notify GW so they acknowledge the mistake.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think Rangers were nerfed, but in many ways an acceptable nerf as it applies to everyone else either way. It just means fewer armies with 3 x MSU Ranger squads to fill battalion possibly.

They are still decent and cheap character snipers so there is that.

The new strat is interesting but I would need to see it in action before making a judgment.

Rangers can still be used as backline obsec and DS denial and for getting forward objectives I can see swooping hawks taking the role. Either start them on the board out of LOS to fake an opponent out before flying them out t1 and dropping them in T2 or just keep them out altogether and drop them on objectives.

looked at Swooping hawks the other day and wondered why they are not getting used. Cheap as dirt, decent gun range for a deep strike unit, and can help clear some chaff. 68pts for 5 is a nice way to take some objectives. I guess Rangers can do the same thing, but don't have the same kind of maneuverability when on the table.

 bullyboy wrote:
looked at Swooping hawks the other day and wondered why they are not getting used. Cheap as dirt, decent gun range for a deep strike unit, and can help clear some chaff. 68pts for 5 is a nice way to take some objectives. I guess Rangers can do the same thing, but don't have the same kind of maneuverability when on the table.

Main reason was probably -1 to hit, 3+ save in cover and the old infiltrate ability letting them start in cover next to the objectives made rangers, especially alaitoc, much better. but now that they can't infiltrate I can see hawks getting more use as cheap skirmishers and objective grabbers.

operkoi wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
looked at Swooping hawks the other day and wondered why they are not getting used. Cheap as dirt, decent gun range for a deep strike unit, and can help clear some chaff. 68pts for 5 is a nice way to take some objectives. I guess Rangers can do the same thing, but don't have the same kind of maneuverability when on the table.

Main reason was probably -1 to hit, 3+ save in cover and the old infiltrate ability letting them start in cover next to the objectives made rangers, especially alaitoc, much better. but now that they can't infiltrate I can see hawks getting more use as cheap skirmishers and objective grabbers.

If youre gonna take a unit for its objective sitting ability rather than its offensive output, it may as well be a troops choice for your detachments.

If Rangers weren't troops they wouldn't see much use.