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I personally think the Warp Hunter is interesting now. 16” move, can ignore LoS at 36” or uses a super flamer 12” flamer. 28” flamer range backed up by the right style of army could do some serious work.

If the tables have big chunks of LoS terrian or that shaky ICT (?) ruins rule is in effect there might be some merit, Prisms probaly still better due to the Stratagem

Yeh they are a bit swingy with the hits and damage but I'd hold a CP for it, and you might only need to get 2 or 3 hits to take a chunk of wounds off something.

The range I'm not too bothered about, 28" threat range isn't too bad and there's always cloudstrike if you need it.

It's the auto hits that has me interested, I keep running into flyers stacking minus' to hit which really takes the edge off my prisms.

 Trashpanda wrote:
Yeh they are a bit swingy with the hits and damage but I'd hold a CP for it, and you might only need to get 2 or 3 hits to take a chunk of wounds off something.

The range I'm not too bothered about, 28" threat range isn't too bad and there's always cloudstrike if you need it.

It's the auto hits that has me interested, I keep running into flyers stacking minus' to hit which really takes the edge off my prisms.

There are much better counters to your problem. Dark reapers or Hemlocks (still a bit random, but much less so than the warp hunter) can do the job better and they will have more versatility.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Trashpanda wrote:
Yeh they are a bit swingy with the hits and damage but I'd hold a CP for it, and you might only need to get 2 or 3 hits to take a chunk of wounds off something.

The range I'm not too bothered about, 28" threat range isn't too bad and there's always cloudstrike if you need it.

It's the auto hits that has me interested, I keep running into flyers stacking minus' to hit which really takes the edge off my prisms.

There are much better counters to your problem. Dark reapers or Hemlocks (still a bit random, but much less so than the warp hunter) can do the job better and they will have more versatility.

It's not as clear cut imo. 177 points will get you 1 Warp Hunter. 170 will get you 5 Reapers and 210 will get you a Hemlock.
Without a shadow out a doubt, the Warp Hunter is more survivable than the 5 Reapers, and is slightly less so than the Hemlock due to it's inbuilt -1 and spirit stones.

The Hunter can pretty much go wherever it wants to and still target whatever it wants to, Reapers and Hemlocks are bound by LoS and, to an extent, movement.

Reapers will always hit on 3's, Hemlocks will always auto-hit, but, Hunters can auto-hit as well. Hemlocks have a slightly better average in terms of number of shots, but, the Hunter has the better "average" in terms of damage done per shot. Hemlock does have the advantage when it comes to T6 models though. 5 Reapers will average more shots and just slightly more hits than the Hunter, however, at a lower strength and AP. Flat 3 damage is nice, but, overall the 3.5 average of the Hunter is arguably better "in the long run".

Hemlock also has the advantage of being a psyker and it's -ld debuff.

The real argument should be whether or not the Hunter is better or worse than a Fire Prism, or whether 2 or 3 Prisms are better than 2 or 3 Hunters using Linked Fire.

So are Wraithlords now worth taking due to their points drop?

I am thinking about expanding my eldar army with the new box set...

I have 90 guardians
15 Dire Avengers
2 vypers
10 dark reapers
2 war walkers
10 wind runners
3 Wave Serpents
1 Falcon
3 Heavy Weapons Platforms
15 Rangers
12 Scorpions
10 Wraith Guard
3 Spirit Seers
5 Warlocks
1 Eldrad
1 Karandras
2 Autarchs

I think getting some wind runners and converting them into some spears and the guardians into storm guardians might be quite helpful and just giving em all flamers.

 Asherian Command wrote:
So are Wraithlords now worth taking due to their points drop?

If they only had 9 wounds and thus did not have a degrading profile, maybe.
It's kinda weird that models with 9 wounds end up being better than models with 10-11 wounds

-

Kdash wrote:
It's not as clear cut imo. 177 points will get you 1 Warp Hunter. 170 will get you 5 Reapers and 210 will get you a Hemlock.
Without a shadow out a doubt, the Warp Hunter is more survivable than the 5 Reapers, and is slightly less so than the Hemlock due to it's inbuilt -1 and spirit stones.

It is definitely more survivable in the open, but it will be harder to hide. 5 reapers can use terrain much more effectively due to Fire and Fade.

Kdash wrote:
The Hunter can pretty much go wherever it wants to and still target whatever it wants to, Reapers and Hemlocks are bound by LoS and, to an extent, movement.

It can use its second profile which cuts the amount of shots even more to bypass LOS. Hemlocks generally won't suffer from LOS issues as they have the movement to get wherever they need to even on their lowest profile, which by the time they reach it, there should be more space to operate on the board for them to maneuver. Reapers can suffer from LOS issues.

Kdash wrote:

Reapers will always hit on 3's, Hemlocks will always auto-hit, but, Hunters can auto-hit as well. Hemlocks have a slightly better average in terms of number of shots, but, the Hunter has the better "average" in terms of damage done per shot. Hemlock does have the advantage when it comes to T6 models though. 5 Reapers will average more shots and just slightly more hits than the Hunter, however, at a lower strength and AP. Flat 3 damage is nice, but, overall the 3.5 average of the Hunter is arguably better "in the long run".

In order for the Hunter to autohit, it has to put itself dangerously close to the enemy lines. 12 inches is not a safe distance on a T7 3+ chassis.

Kdash wrote:
The real argument should be whether or not the Hunter is better or worse than a Fire Prism, or whether 2 or 3 Prisms are better than 2 or 3 Hunters using Linked Fire.

I'm not keen on the eldar tanks other than wave serpents myself and hornets. I'd rather spend those points elsewhere.

Ultimately, there are arguments for and against the options above, but the one thing both reapers and the hemlock have over the hunter is the fact that they exist in the CWE codex. There are still those folks out there who still like to pretend that Forgeworld is not affiliated with GW and refuse to play with those models.

 Trashpanda wrote:
So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

Its playable now, but not competitive at all. Its 180pts for D3 shots... thats not good lol. Look at other 180pts tanks that shoot, they tend to get more shots or re-rolls, something to make sure the hit more often. Armigers are 4D3 shots for example.

The problem is, GW values Str 10 way to much, yeah it can wounds T5 vehicles on a 2+, but if you are paying earily 200pts for average 2 shots a turn, you are most likely only doing 1D6 damage a turn, especially if you moved and they have an invul of some type.

A Ravager is 140pts for 3 Lances, those are S8, and it will out damage 1 Warp Hunter vs a Rhino (4.67 wounds vs 312 wounds) Sure Warp Hunters are more survivable, but when you take 3 of them vs 3 Ravagers, thats 120pts difference, that is enough to get another tank! So now you have 4 tanks vs 3 lol.


The Big thing that Warp Hunter has is Ignore LoS, but thats honestly needed b.c its -1 to shoot if you move.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Trashpanda wrote:
So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

Its playable now, but not competitive at all. Its 180pts for D3 shots... thats not good lol. Look at other 180pts tanks that shoot, they tend to get more shots or re-rolls, something to make sure the hit more often. Armigers are 4D3 shots for example.

The problem is, GW values Str 10 way to much, yeah it can wounds T5 vehicles on a 2+, but if you are paying earily 200pts for average 2 shots a turn, you are most likely only doing 1D6 damage a turn, especially if you moved and they have an invul of some type.

A Ravager is 140pts for 3 Lances, those are S8, and it will out damage 1 Warp Hunter vs a Rhino (4.67 wounds vs 312 wounds) Sure Warp Hunters are more survivable, but when you take 3 of them vs 3 Ravagers, thats 120pts difference, that is enough to get another tank! So now you have 4 tanks vs 3 lol.


The Big thing that Warp Hunter has is Ignore LoS, but thats honestly needed b.c its -1 to shoot if you move.

Obviously it depends on deployment and stage of the game, but, a Warp Hunter could do 8.1 wounds to the Rhino due to the flamer profile. 8.6 with the shuriken catapult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Kdash wrote:
It's not as clear cut imo. 177 points will get you 1 Warp Hunter. 170 will get you 5 Reapers and 210 will get you a Hemlock.
Without a shadow out a doubt, the Warp Hunter is more survivable than the 5 Reapers, and is slightly less so than the Hemlock due to it's inbuilt -1 and spirit stones.

It is definitely more survivable in the open, but it will be harder to hide. 5 reapers can use terrain much more effectively due to Fire and Fade.

Kdash wrote:
The Hunter can pretty much go wherever it wants to and still target whatever it wants to, Reapers and Hemlocks are bound by LoS and, to an extent, movement.

It can use its second profile which cuts the amount of shots even more to bypass LOS. Hemlocks generally won't suffer from LOS issues as they have the movement to get wherever they need to even on their lowest profile, which by the time they reach it, there should be more space to operate on the board for them to maneuver. Reapers can suffer from LOS issues.

Kdash wrote:

Reapers will always hit on 3's, Hemlocks will always auto-hit, but, Hunters can auto-hit as well. Hemlocks have a slightly better average in terms of number of shots, but, the Hunter has the better "average" in terms of damage done per shot. Hemlock does have the advantage when it comes to T6 models though. 5 Reapers will average more shots and just slightly more hits than the Hunter, however, at a lower strength and AP. Flat 3 damage is nice, but, overall the 3.5 average of the Hunter is arguably better "in the long run".

In order for the Hunter to autohit, it has to put itself dangerously close to the enemy lines. 12 inches is not a safe distance on a T7 3+ chassis.

Kdash wrote:
The real argument should be whether or not the Hunter is better or worse than a Fire Prism, or whether 2 or 3 Prisms are better than 2 or 3 Hunters using Linked Fire.

I'm not keen on the eldar tanks other than wave serpents myself and hornets. I'd rather spend those points elsewhere.

Ultimately, there are arguments for and against the options above, but the one thing both reapers and the hemlock have over the hunter is the fact that they exist in the CWE codex. There are still those folks out there who still like to pretend that Forgeworld is not affiliated with GW and refuse to play with those models.

I do agree with a lot of what you've said, but i still think the difference is small enough to be worth considering now.

In regards to the range thing, i guess it depends on what is counting you - as a Hemlock will have to be within 16" itself, so, if something can reach the Hunter, it can likely just as easily reach the Hemlock - granted infantry can't generally charge the Hemlock, but, charging -4AP flamers either way isn't a very satisfying situation.

Well I have no idea what to expand my army with currently. I don't know if the new box set will help with my eldar at all. As they seem extremely viable currently with my current build.

I am still not sure on a wraith knight or adding in a new farseer or replacing my rangers with dire avengers. (still don't have any shining spears either)

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Trashpanda wrote:
So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

Its playable now, but not competitive at all. Its 180pts for D3 shots... thats not good lol. Look at other 180pts tanks that shoot, they tend to get more shots or re-rolls, something to make sure the hit more often. Armigers are 4D3 shots for example.

The problem is, GW values Str 10 way to much, yeah it can wounds T5 vehicles on a 2+, but if you are paying earily 200pts for average 2 shots a turn, you are most likely only doing 1D6 damage a turn, especially if you moved and they have an invul of some type.

A Ravager is 140pts for 3 Lances, those are S8, and it will out damage 1 Warp Hunter vs a Rhino (4.67 wounds vs 312 wounds) Sure Warp Hunters are more survivable, but when you take 3 of them vs 3 Ravagers, thats 120pts difference, that is enough to get another tank! So now you have 4 tanks vs 3 lol.


The Big thing that Warp Hunter has is Ignore LoS, but thats honestly needed b.c its -1 to shoot if you move.

Yeh but tbh I'm not thinking of taking it for the long range shots, fire prisms and crimson hunters are better for that.

I'd be taking it for the close range d6 auto hits, either to counter attack something like a storm raven/fang in my deployment zone, or use cloudstrike to get it within striking distance and go on the offensive.

 Trashpanda wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Trashpanda wrote:
So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

Its playable now, but not competitive at all. Its 180pts for D3 shots... thats not good lol. Look at other 180pts tanks that shoot, they tend to get more shots or re-rolls, something to make sure the hit more often. Armigers are 4D3 shots for example.

The problem is, GW values Str 10 way to much, yeah it can wounds T5 vehicles on a 2+, but if you are paying earily 200pts for average 2 shots a turn, you are most likely only doing 1D6 damage a turn, especially if you moved and they have an invul of some type.

A Ravager is 140pts for 3 Lances, those are S8, and it will out damage 1 Warp Hunter vs a Rhino (4.67 wounds vs 312 wounds) Sure Warp Hunters are more survivable, but when you take 3 of them vs 3 Ravagers, thats 120pts difference, that is enough to get another tank! So now you have 4 tanks vs 3 lol.


The Big thing that Warp Hunter has is Ignore LoS, but thats honestly needed b.c its -1 to shoot if you move.

Yeh but tbh I'm not thinking of taking it for the long range shots, fire prisms and crimson hunters are better for that.

I'd be taking it for the close range d6 auto hits, either to counter attack something like a storm raven/fang in my deployment zone, or use cloudstrike to get it within striking distance and go on the offensive.

I totally think couldstrike is the best use for it. Then use a reroll for the number of shots if you roll a 1 or a 2. It will do pretty good against flyers that way. If they have a flyer they will blow you up before before they get close or just kill you with the flyer - A storm raven for example will 1 shot you with decent rolls. Plus I feel like storm ravens are probably going to be running with the thyphon/ twin las build and stay back to get buffs now.

Just played my first Eldar list with 2018 CA points. 1750 army build. I took out 1 Falcon and 3 Dark Reapers, 5 Banshees and a smattering of other points from my 2000 list.

Faced a Nid force with 2018 CA build. I forgot the -1 to my Crimson Hunter and lost it first turn. At one point he was up 14 to 6 VPs. ( I had passed and let him take first turn after winning) But I came back and pretty much demolished him.
If there was a turn 6 he would not have had much cept Hive Guard and Termagaunts.

I had 5 tanks + 2 Wraithlords + 2 Vypers besides the CH.

It was the first real Mechdar list I fielded and it worked very well. The Night Spinner was very good. It was never targeted as the other tanks were always more of a threat and it took out what ever unit I needed gone.

Made a few mistakes but did my normal move up the flank and roll up the enemy down his battleline. He was a Kronus gunline mostly which did not work too well.

Even though he got a nice point drop in CA. (I have a NID army as well) The Eldar got some great relief in this years CA.

I recommend trying windriders in larger groups, storm guardians helped mopped up a 30 blob of gaunts. Only my precious wraithguard did only 2 wounds of damage from 2 rounds of shooting a Tyrant point blank. They suffered no casualties....just some light bruising.

Ofc the NOVA Lance was great. The Autarch held his own for a round from a CC Tyrant.

I was underwhelmed with the Falcons Pulse Laser. First time Ive used one this edition. Interesting enough it was never targeted. Perhaps I did get its points back from a full 5 turns of shooting.

With all the tanks, The Saim Han Vypers had a field day. The cheapere Vypers and War Walkers are good. The Saim Han craftworld ability works very nicely with them.

Overall I am very pleased with the list.

 Asherian Command wrote:
So are Wraithlords now worth taking due to their points drop?

I was running them anyway, makes it easier now. I do advocate WLs with just swords, cheap at 95pts.

 admironheart wrote:
The Saim Han Vypers had a field day. The cheapere Vypers and War Walkers are good. The Saim Han craftworld ability works very nicely with them.

What weapons exactly you fielded Vypers with?

atm with no magnets it is Bright Lance and Star Cannon. I want to get a 3rd Vyper but now windriders are a consideration.

Since your vehicles are going to suffer move and fire....I try to keep scatter lasers with 4 shots or shuriken cannons on the bigger vehicles and put the heavy more expensive guns on the Saim-Han Vypers.

Remember even though our WS went up in points...if you transition some to twin linked scatter lasers and twin linked shuriken catapults you can get a WS that is only 5 points more than the old 3 shuriken cannon loadout. But we are saving in other units in much bigger ways.

Does anyone know if there was ever an update regarding the Wraithseer’s status as a “Wraith Construct”?

It still looks like, RAW, the Wraithseer couldn’t benefit from the “Spirit Host” detachment rules.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
So are Wraithlords now worth taking due to their points drop?

I was running them anyway, makes it easier now. I do advocate WLs with just swords, cheap at 95pts.

I agree, they were OK before and better now. T8 is a decent bonus when facing hordes of S4 attacks like massed Ork mobz.

I like Glaives and dual shuricannons as you can Advance and still fire at decent effect and then charge in and whack things. For just 115 points, it makes quite an effective distraction carnifex. Run it as a second wave in a mech list or as part of a Wraith Host and it will cause your opponent problems by being too tough to kill easily, too fast to ignore and just shooty and hitty enough to be a threat.

Having said that, dual starcannons are now really cheap and surprisingly effective.

The thing with WL and WS. .... Both can die from 1 round of concentrated shooting. Much like 1 carnifex isn't bad...but multiples charging + Screamer Killers to boot become a real pain.

If you take a WL....take several...some with swords....some with guns.....either way you will get your bang out of some of them.

 Dageran wrote:
Does anyone know if there was ever an update regarding the Wraithseer’s status as a “Wraith Construct”?

It still looks like, RAW, the Wraithseer couldn’t benefit from the “Spirit Host” detachment rules.

Sadly FW units remain largely ignored despite the latest updates and FAQs, the Wraithseer still remains without Wraith Host "Keyword" and still boasting T7.

I'm super happy with Prince Yriel's new points. I absolutely love him in my Iyanden force, wounding on 2s is really nice and now he's cheaper than standard Autarchs. Downside is that his warlord trait is crap, so you have to give up the 6s to regain Command Points so that a spiritseer can be your warlord for the reroll charge trait in the new wraith host detachment.

What do we think of Hornets now? I’m considering a squad of 3 with the mini pulse lasers, crystal targeting matrix and vectored engines. On turns they don’t shoot, 18+2d6 advance, at -2 to shoot; or they move 18” and shoot nearest enemy on 3+ with 18 shots.

I reckon it has game!

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
What do we think of Hornets now? I’m considering a squad of 3 with the mini pulse lasers, crystal targeting matrix and vectored engines. On turns they don’t shoot, 18+2d6 advance, at -2 to shoot; or they move 18” and shoot nearest enemy on 3+ with 18 shots.

I reckon it has game!

I'd personally still run them with Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engines. Advance each turn and hit on 4's, but they will have a base -2 to hit all the time.

That is tempting - I run Biel-Tan after all, so would be rerolling 1s on the shuricannons, so maybe I’ll try magnetizing.

So does the Falcon come into the conversation now? Thinking armed with starcannon and shuricatapults. 3 Falcons are 375pts, whereas 3 Prisms are 471pts. With the strat, the prism is still superior by a long way, but it's almost 100pts saving.

edit; So: thinking about this list

Alaitoc battalion

Farseer skyrunner 132
Ilic Nightspear 80
3x5 rangers 180
2 hemlocks 420

Iyanden Spearhead (Wraith Host -1CP)

Spiritseer, psytronome of Iyanden, Revered by the Dead 65
2 wraithlords with glaives 190
1 wraithlord, brightlance, starcannon 118
6 Axe wraithblades 270

Iyanden Spearhead

Prince Yriel 70
3 Fire Prisms 471

1996pts

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
What do we think of Hornets now? I’m considering a squad of 3 with the mini pulse lasers, crystal targeting matrix and vectored engines. On turns they don’t shoot, 18+2d6 advance, at -2 to shoot; or they move 18” and shoot nearest enemy on 3+ with 18 shots.

I reckon it has game!

I want to love them because they’re probably my favourite model in the Eldar arsenal, but while they’re much better now, they’re probably not great. With pulse lasers and a CTM their closest comparison is dissie ravagers. They’re 10 points cheaper, but have 6 shots to the ravager’s 9, albeit at 1 higher strength and 12” greater range. They trade 2 wounds and a 5++ save for a non-degrading statline, a 3+ base save, and better ability to use stratagems (since you can put 3 in a single unit).

With pulse lasers they may be more useful in the back field. With twin shuricannons and vectored engines for 90 each, they can be very hard to hit but probably won’t do enough to be seen as a major threat.

If the Hornet Pulse Laser was assault i'd play them, but till then, they are pointless IMO.

 bullyboy wrote:
So does the Falcon come into the conversation now? Thinking armed with starcannon and shuricatapults. 3 Falcons are 375pts, whereas 3 Prisms are 471pts. With the strat, the prism is still superior by a long way, but it's almost 100pts saving.

edit; So: thinking about this list

Alaitoc battalion

Farseer skyrunner 132
Ilic Nightspear 80
3x5 rangers 180
2 hemlocks 420

Iyanden Spearhead (Wraith Host -1CP)

Spiritseer, psytronome of Iyanden, Revered by the Dead 65
2 wraithlords with glaives 190
1 wraithlord, brightlance, starcannon 118
6 Axe wraithblades 270

Iyanden Spearhead

Prince Yriel 70
3 Fire Prisms 471

1996pts

What would you put in the Falcons if you took them? It seems a waste not to utilize the transport option.....still a potent list.

Hornets with twin hornet lasers look very good to me now. Long range firepower that's great against anything except tanks etc, tough enough chassis for 110 pts each? Effectively three star cannons for the price of two.