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karandrasss wrote:
Been mulling Warp Hunters myself, just a couple of them, to form the new backline now that it's not double shooting Dark Reapers in there.

If youre wanting back-line, Warp Hunters are pretty inefficient. They do less damage than a Fire Prism (WITHOUT linked fire) in spite of costing more, until you can get them into flamer range. Thats where they shine. Go full Cult of Speed, in your enemies face with nasty guns turn 1.

On the other hand, their rule of cool is through the roof. I'll never get tired of lobbing black holes at people, Eldars coolest tech by far.

They however ignore LOS, and being less scary will probably make it to turn 6. But yeah it's kinda meh.

Lynx with vibro lance anyone ? On paper sounds like an amazing infantry hozer. But think 3x nightspinners at the same price are far more efficient.

Spartacus wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
Been mulling Warp Hunters myself, just a couple of them, to form the new backline now that it's not double shooting Dark Reapers in there.

If youre wanting back-line, Warp Hunters are pretty inefficient. They do less damage than a Fire Prism (WITHOUT linked fire) in spite of costing more, until you can get them into flamer range. Thats where they shine. Go full Cult of Speed, in your enemies face with nasty guns turn 1.

On the other hand, their rule of cool is through the roof. I'll never get tired of lobbing black holes at people, Eldars coolest tech by far.

My current plan is 2 Warp Hunters, 2 Night Spinners and 2 CHE.

But I agree, running the Hunters up the table and flaming whatever you want dead, alongside doom is fantastic. I just don’t expect them to survive after 1 turn of shooting

 Argive wrote:
Lynx with vibro lance anyone ? On paper sounds like an amazing infantry hozer. But think 3x nightspinners at the same price are far more efficient.

400 points for 16W in T7? Yeah I'm sure Spinners are more efficient.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
I guess they're okay against less powerful lists.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing now?

Bring flyers with you and they'll get targeted over the prisms. On turn 1 you'll have them hidden and/or screened.

Running both of them, and this is absolutely true. Eldar fliers are much more dangerous than prisms so they get shot at first. Prisms are a little expensive for their damage output but they have good versatility and linked fire is extremely strong. There's not much in Eldar that can choose between 2d6 S6 shots or 2d3 S9 shots, since Eldar are normally so specialized. They're a nice addition to most lists, esp as alaitoc.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Lynx with vibro lance anyone ? On paper sounds like an amazing infantry hozer. But think 3x nightspinners at the same price are far more efficient.

400 points for 16W in T7? Yeah I'm sure Spinners are more efficient.

Last I checked it was more around 370pts i think. Its pretty much the embodiment of glass cannon but still id love to hose down some blobs of infantry with that sucker. Not enough to spend money on it though..

Another wierd one is the scatchat knight. Sounds awesome fun and fluffy. Costs ridonculus point

GW kinda forgot (insert GoT meme here) that Lynx can also be armed with Sonic lance when they made it cost points, and Scatterlaser is not optional so 392?

How likely do you guys think we will see points decreases now that ynnari is no longer an issue?

Personally, most of the stuff is priced reasonably fairly (apart from the knight and some aspects). We are paying a lot for T3 W1 models with no invulns..

All things being said, my biggest gripe is warlock conclave on foot. Would love to see these guys dropped to about 35 points if not to the original 30.

Better e-mail the rules team, remind them that they increased the points costs of Dark Reapers and Shining Spears because they did things they no longer do anymore.

Better e-mail the rules team, remind them that they increased the points costs of Dark Reapers and Shining Spears because they did things they no longer do anymore.

I agree with you 100% but think there is very little chance of this happening.....

Enjoy 6 months of playing flyers before they get nerfed. Hopefully by then we'll all have our Knights armies ready so we can play Knights vs Chaos Knights for 2020

Dark Reapers cost like Long Fangs with ML, and kinda are better, so not sure they will decrease it. Maybe that's just how they want these units.

I really want to see Banshees, Hawks, Spiders, Scorps get a buff tho.

Dark Reapers are squishier.

But way better at shooting.

karandrasss wrote:
Dark Reapers are squishier.

But as a faction have far more ways to mitigate that squishiness. The net result after buffs, strats, etc is that Reapers are by far better than other Dev equivalents. It's just that the cost is in other places (Characters, strats, etc)

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Speaking of which, if not a drop in points, Warlocks could at least use an extra wound. The chain explosions you can get from eldar mages can be hilarious but ultimately don't help.

Yeah I wasnt really talking about the reapers because they are bloody good at what they do and I think are priced fairly. Maybe 1 points drop on the reaper launcher but thats just me being greedy lol.

things like prisms, guardians, falcons, knights. shining spears maybe are a bit too expensive.

Prisms are too expensive now? Sheesh. 157 is a steal for what it does, the only reason Prisms aren't commonly taken is because of eldar flyers.

Guardians is an interesting one. I could imagine a 1pt drop on them, or a 5pt drop on their platform.

Yeah, Guardians do look a bit overpriced since Avengers got a price-cut. Pretty mu the only time I see Guardians run is a 20-man Guardian bomb in the webway.

 grouchoben wrote:
Prisms are too expensive now? Sheesh. 157 is a steal for what it does, the only reason Prisms aren't commonly taken is because of eldar flyers.

Guardians is an interesting one. I could imagine a 1pt drop on them, or a 5pt drop on their platform.

Except you sort of would run 3 prisms which is 471 pts.
I don't ever envision taking one prism over one serpent.

Obviously could be wrong. Just my take on it.

But the guardians are overpriced when compared to other chaff I think. 12" is very weak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Karhedron wrote:
Yeah, Guardians do look a bit overpriced since Avengers got a price-cut. Pretty mu the only time I see Guardians run is a 20-man Guardian bomb in the webway.

I do run a 10 man blob for Eldrads bodyguard in a token ulthwe patrol and they have some uses. They seem to either be targeted straight away or ignored so useful as a threat saturation at least.

I think unless you are running 20 man blob with protect, celestial shield and an avatar then they are only valid in the web way..

So Dark Reapers cost like tougher equivalents, then they have to pay extra for support that makes them tougher. That doesn't sound right.

I ran triple hemlock today instead of reapers. Best decision I ever made with my pure CWE list. Having a minimum 16" move on my entire army gave me incredible board control and the ability to concentrate fire exactly where I needed it at all times.

The rest of my list included spears, serpents and jetbike psykers. Also had 40 guardians and rangers in deep strike.

Not having anything to screen is my favorite way to play pure CWE right now. Backlines are a liability when our faction doesn't have access to effective infantry screens. With rangers losing the ability to infiltrate and CWE losing Ynnari doubleshoot, I don't see reapers being very viable in anything nastier than a semi-competitive meta. They are too fragile and they don't have the insane alpha damage they used to have with doubleshoot, so it's unlikely they will make their points back unless your opponent misplays considerably. Reapers are just marginally better devastators at this point. Not worth babysitting with the rest of your army, especially considering how effective a mechanized eldar force can be with its army-wide fly and absurd speed.

That said, I don't believe CWE will be top tables competitive because there is no good answer to true horde lists. Scatterbikes are our best bet but unfortunately they suffer from the same issue as reapers in that pretty much every gun in a competitive list will kill them efficiently.

Spears are still viable without Ynnari double action because quickened, protected, fortuned, concealed spears are a monstrously lethal cruise missile with very few counters. It's not that easy to kill -2 to hit, 2+/3++/5+++ 2w models that can hide in the corner and smash into your backlines from 40" away.

Reapers on the other hand, without rangers to infiltrate the midfield or doubleshoot to T1 alpha strike hard targets, will just get picked off from afar by heavy weapons, or swarmed by close combat units, or shot apart by rapid firing deep strikers. Anything that can kill a devastator marine can kill a reaper. And pretty much everything kills devastators

I think the next few months are going to be interesting. With all the changes the FAQ brought it will be enlightening to see whether some of the previous Aeldari point costs are accurate or not. I have found Reapers to be a nice addition, but at the same time I haven't fought many melee oriented armies with them and most of the time the few deepstriking units I have to contend with are focusing on other threats.

Great post slave.entity, gave me a lot to think about.

I'm feeling compelled to make a Wraithost Supreme Command Detachment work. I'm not sure what to add in the rest of the list to support it though:

Spiritseer
Wraithseer
Wraithseer

10x Wraithblades

Wraithknight, Sun Cannon 2x SL

1034pts

I've played around with this before, and the Wraithblades can become ridiculously tough with the 4++ passed from the Spiritseer, on top of the usual Craftworld buffs. 48 T8 Wounds with 3+ 5++ across the 3 big monsters should take a while to chew through too.

What to take with it though?

More Wizards are needed for the buffs, along with at least one Battalion for the CPs. Will I need 2 Battalions worth of CPs though?

 slave.entity wrote:
I ran triple hemlock today instead of reapers. Best decision I ever made with my pure CWE list. Having a minimum 16" move on my entire army gave me incredible board control and the ability to concentrate fire exactly where I needed it at all times.

The rest of my list included spears, serpents and jetbike psykers. Also had 40 guardians and rangers in deep strike.

Not having anything to screen is my favorite way to play pure CWE right now. Backlines are a liability when our faction doesn't have access to effective infantry screens. With rangers losing the ability to infiltrate and CWE losing Ynnari doubleshoot, I don't see reapers being very viable in anything nastier than a semi-competitive meta. They are too fragile and they don't have the insane alpha damage they used to have with doubleshoot, so it's unlikely they will make their points back unless your opponent misplays considerably. Reapers are just marginally better devastators at this point. Not worth babysitting with the rest of your army, especially considering how effective a mechanized eldar force can be with its army-wide fly and absurd speed.

That said, I don't believe CWE will be top tables competitive because there is no good answer to true horde lists. Scatterbikes are our best bet but unfortunately they suffer from the same issue as reapers in that pretty much every gun in a competitive list will kill them efficiently.

Spears are still viable without Ynnari double action because quickened, protected, fortuned, concealed spears are a monstrously lethal cruise missile with very few counters. It's not that easy to kill -2 to hit, 2+/3++/5+++ 2w models that can hide in the corner and smash into your backlines from 40" away.

Reapers on the other hand, without rangers to infiltrate the midfield or doubleshoot to T1 alpha strike hard targets, will just get picked off from afar by heavy weapons, or swarmed by close combat units, or shot apart by rapid firing deep strikers. Anything that can kill a devastator marine can kill a reaper. And pretty much everything kills devastators

This very much aligns with my views for CWE in 8E. Even prior to the Ynnari nerf, I've always been hesitant to pull the trigger on getting some Reapers.
They're just too big of a target requiring too much support to be efficient.

But I also started Eldar in 4E with a mostly Saim-hann theme. So I've always been more attracted to highly mobile forces with little-to-no backfield units.
The only "back field" units I take from time to time as still quite mobile, like Scatter bikes and War Walkers.
But Rangers, Hemlocks, Spears and Jetbike HQs are almost always the core of my list in 8E. I'm only just now experimenting with a Guardian bomb

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Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'm feeling compelled to make a Wraithost Supreme Command Detachment work. I'm not sure what to add in the rest of the list to support it though:

Spiritseer
Wraithseer
Wraithseer

10x Wraithblades

Wraithknight, Sun Cannon 2x SL

1034pts

I've played around with this before, and the Wraithblades can become ridiculously tough with the 4++ passed from the Spiritseer, on top of the usual Craftworld buffs. 48 T8 Wounds with 3+ 5++ across the 3 big monsters should take a while to chew through too.

What to take with it though?

More Wizards are needed for the buffs, along with at least one Battalion for the CPs. Will I need 2 Battalions worth of CPs though?

I'm in the same boat, definitely going to add dual Wraithseer in my list, but probably not the wraithknight.

As you said, the battalion is important, and would go with 1 blob of 20 Guardians, and then maybe either 2x5 rangers or some Dire Avengers. You'll definitely need some good AT as well.

I'm still considering the Supreme Command being Ynnari, the warlord traits and relics really buff the wraithseers without crippling the rest of the army too much.

I don't think you can have a Ynnari Wraithost Detachment sadly. Also I don't think a 10 man unit of Wraithguard/blades is a good idea without all the Craftworlds defensive buffs (probably isn't a good idea anyway!).

I'm only taking a Supreme Command Detachment so that the Wraithknight can benefit from the Wraith Host rules, so if you don't want the Knight you might be better making a Battalion the Wraith Host formation for the extra CPs.

Since we're on the topic of wraithguard- what, if any, benefit does the Iyaden trait give them? I mean why would I put them in a detachment with the Iyaden trait rather than say Ulthwe which gives them a 6+++?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Since we're on the topic of wraithguard- what, if any, benefit does the Iyaden trait give them? I mean why would I put them in a detachment with the Iyaden trait rather than say Ulthwe which gives them a 6+++?

The Psytronome of Ilyanden, and the Spirit mark stratagem.

I will almost certainly make my Wraith Host Alaitoc because that's always the best choice, but the Psytronome is pretty groovy. I used the above mentioned Wraith Host Supreme Command detachment as Ilyanden recently in a more friendly game. Didn't get to trigger it on the Wraithblades, but I did get 16 attacks out of the Wraithseers and 24 out of the Knight!

Edit: You said WraithGUARD, so you're right, they get pretty much nothing out of Ilyanden.