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As long as you actually have worthy targets to shoot, sure.

I'm going to a tournament this weekend. First one that has allowed Forgeworld models of that point Value.

Bringing my Scorpion along as my only losses at my last tournament was against Knights lists.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
EDIT: On second thought, deep striking it has one serious problem: it comes in at the end of the movement phase, so that guarantees that it won't be able to move (and thus have an invuln) before the opponent's shooting phase.

That's because Craftworlds need to unite and ask for Tallarn treatment for Cloudstrike.

Pretty sure a generic FAQ cleared this up by saying that if a unit deepstrikes it counts as having moved it full movement distance.

As a result, on the turn it arrived, it would have a 5++ save as it’d have counted as moving 14”.

^^ Nice catch

Got another game this evening, 2k against Ad Mech, haven't played against them before so we'll see how that turns out.

It's one of the best looking kits there is, and yours looks magnificent.

You win just for taking it.

What's this about a Warp Spider spam list that I saw Argive on about in another thread here?

I don't have enough of them but I'm interested all the same.

So how many points do you think the CHE will go up in CA2019? I don't think it will survive being touched, far too many of them about right now and they are a steal compared to Imperial flyers.

I'll be screening against melee deep strikers with 2 wave serpents and 3 crimson hunter exarchs.

Cant really screen with CHEs anymore due to the new aircraft rules.
Models can simply move over/under/through the bases now.

Kdash wrote:
Pretty sure a generic FAQ cleared this up by saying that if a unit deepstrikes it counts as having moved it full movement distance.

That's for units which are removed from the table and then placed on it again.

You can if you position the bases so they can't end their move beyond the aircraft base, that still counts.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
You can if you position the bases so they can't end their move beyond the aircraft base, that still counts.

Can also put your unit behind CH base - they can't move over your unit, and can't place unit on the flyer base. I thought about using Vypers with Bladewind to do that. A flying barricade.

Kinda dumb exploit tho.

 Ratius wrote:

I'll be screening against melee deep strikers with 2 wave serpents and 3 crimson hunter exarchs.

Cant really screen with CHEs anymore due to the new aircraft rules.
Models can simply move over/under/through the bases now.

First turn you can 100% screen with them – especially vs things like Da Jump etc. Same goes for turn 2 if you plan it properly.

Yes, units can move under them, but, they still have to start over 9” away from the screening flyer, meaning that they’ll almost always need a 12” charge to get under the flyer and into the unit behind them – which is then impossible for things like a 30-man Ork Boyz squad.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:

Kdash wrote:
Pretty sure a generic FAQ cleared this up by saying that if a unit deepstrikes it counts as having moved it full movement distance.

That's for units which are removed from the table and then placed on it again.

I’d argue that it carries over – will have to look to see if there is a separate faq line somewhere.

We all know you can Cloudstrike flyers/deep strike units with a minimum move distance, so, it has to imply that in order for them to not be destroyed at the end of the phase they arrive they have to have moved “some” distance. Or, we would then imply that if they survive then CHE can fire their weapons at BS2 due to not moving.

They count as moved just due to basic wording of reserves, we just don't know by how much.

I also looked at this to protect my Scorpion but couldn't find any faq that covered it beyond second hand posts that claimed you get full movement for deep striking unfortunately. I'd love it if anyone has any concrete evidence.
The nice thing about the Scorpion is the average of fourteen shots means it's great at destroying elite units as well as big single targets.

You know i am surprised this hasnt come up anywhere yet. We want it to be maximum for our own purposes, as that makes sense. But look at other issues this can cause.

Flyers, did they move max or min? Or 1"? Are they in hover mode?

What about tilaren leman russes? Min movement means they can fire twice, max means once, so whats the answer?

I thought i read somewhere in an faq they said counts as max but i will be damned that i cant find it.

Tallarn Ambush was FAQed to maximum move.

Bharring wrote:
It's one of the best looking kits there is, and yours looks magnificent.

You win just for taking it.

Thanks. I'm really excited to field it.

Since it looks like the DS issue is unclear, I will probably end up deploying it in the corner and praying for first turn.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
What's this about a Warp Spider spam list that I saw Argive on about in another thread here?

I don't have enough of them but I'm interested all the same.

***This is pure theory-hammer***

What I said was that I think spider spam might work.

I would do that by running 20-30 spiders with fearless 6" from autarch with puritanical leader or 12" from Avatar could be neat (this would also benefit any guardians etc.). They would be base -2 to hit.(-3 with conceal/LFR or -4 if really need to stack) and a 3+ save. The idea is that you could place them across the board giving you a lot of board control and with their movement rule you could re-position almost anywhere on the board. I used a unit of 7 in my last game and they are pesky annoying and hard to remove. No punch but very good at frustrating your enemy and would have won me the game rather then drew if I didn't feth up my target priority and didn't notice two DAs I forgot to shoot at... I find their mobility is insane. Also the fact that they can randomly blow up from time to time is what 40k is all about.. The idea is to saturate objective holders to force opponents to waste shots in trying to remove them or give you an early points lead.

Downside is that 30 Spiders is 498 pts(twin spinner exarchs) so yeah it does seem a bit like madness,
I think running 3 units of 7 for 345pts would be more reasonable and is not that much of an investment for the mobility and choices that you get.

My point on the other thread was that I will probably never try it because I'm not buying any more finecast and I'm sure there are other people with similar whacky ideas that would invest in the models to try things out if we had nice new plastic kits. Obviously I could be 100% wrong on all of this and my perception might be BS. That's just my take on it. Feel free to lynch me for heresy


@ Azuza - I Agree that it should be applying for us too. And I argues that although its is not the same as you are DS and not re-deploying they cover a lot of questions in that FAQ which should really apply to DS as its essentially the same thing..

If you DS rangers in, you suffer move penalty for moving. But you are not allowed to get the benefit for moving if DS superheavy tank?
I don't have the book in front of me because I'm at work but what does it say on the imperial armour invuln chart is it 1"-xx" = 6++?? or 0"-xx" = 6++.

You could argue the lower end of the scale too. Because if you only need to move more than 0" so say 0.0000001", that's enough movement to trigger 6++??.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:

Bharring wrote:
It's one of the best looking kits there is, and yours looks magnificent.

You win just for taking it.

Thanks. I'm really excited to field it.

Since it looks like the DS issue is unclear, I will probably end up deploying it in the corner and praying for first turn.

I would say discuss it with your opponent before battle and see what they think.

You don't need 30 Spiders. Around 15 is already ok to do what they do best - playing points, moving fast, finishing enemy units (which also can bring points, provided you know what you need to get points).

Sounds like a fun thing to do, I only have 7 spiders and it'll take a while for me to want to get some more.

Had my game against Ad Mech last night. He brought six of the retro dakkabots and I managed to outmaneuver them enough so they could never sit down and shoot twice. 54 shots rerolling because of Cawl is bloody nasty! Managed the win because of the speed and durability of my list.
MVP goes to my Fire Prisms this game, linked fire put in some serious work and they had some good chances to do chaff clearing too.
LVP goes to my farseer who whiffed on every single psychic test except one doom cast.

The problem I have with Warp Spiders and Scorpions alongside them, is that their “heavy” Aspect armour equates to a T3, 3+ save.

Sure, -2 to hit helps them, when they are more than 12” away, but their weapons are only a 12” range, so, you’re mainly just looking at a -1 to hit.

Now I came to elder for a tank army (I play tyranids and daemons, so I adore strong psychic powers but I wanted vehicles damn it!) but after reviewing and playing I have to admit my old Monster craze is slowly infecting me in the elder, and Wraithguard/blades and Wraithlords are beyond awesome models, so I have to ask you Dakka,

How would a Footdar list do with Avatar, Wraith constructs and then some faster elements (maybe some fliers or other movement shenanigans we're infamous for)? I'd be interested in trying it sometime!

How are the flyers rated?

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Now I came to elder for a tank army (I play tyranids and daemons, so I adore strong psychic powers but I wanted vehicles damn it!) but after reviewing and playing I have to admit my old Monster craze is slowly infecting me in the elder, and Wraithguard/blades and Wraithlords are beyond awesome models, so I have to ask you Dakka,

How would a Footdar list do with Avatar, Wraith constructs and then some faster elements (maybe some fliers or other movement shenanigans we're infamous for)? I'd be interested in trying it sometime!

Wraith constructs in a Footdar list are a bit odd, in that once you've exposed your Footdar, you're getting nothing out of your Wraith Constructs' durability. And the Avatar wants more bodies, not better ones.

If you have Fire Dragons next to Wraithguard, your Wraithguard are no better than Fire Dragons - as their toughness means nothing when they're not getting shot at.

If you have Banshees and Wraithguard, your Banshees will get shot up. And, if they somehow survive to engage, your Wraithguard won't keep up - so they can kill your Banshees in CC then handle your Wraithguard on it's own.

On the other hand, your wraith constructs can be exposed before your footdar engage - forcing your opponent to engage the tougher targets. And a Wraithlord near Platforms/Guardian backfielders/Reapers really changes the opponent's options.

 Daba wrote:
How are the flyers rated?

As far as the codex entries go, you can't go wrong with a CHE or a Hemlock, or three...

Or six.

Bharring wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Now I came to elder for a tank army (I play tyranids and daemons, so I adore strong psychic powers but I wanted vehicles damn it!) but after reviewing and playing I have to admit my old Monster craze is slowly infecting me in the elder, and Wraithguard/blades and Wraithlords are beyond awesome models, so I have to ask you Dakka,

How would a Footdar list do with Avatar, Wraith constructs and then some faster elements (maybe some fliers or other movement shenanigans we're infamous for)? I'd be interested in trying it sometime!

Wraith constructs in a Footdar list are a bit odd, in that once you've exposed your Footdar, you're getting nothing out of your Wraith Constructs' durability. And the Avatar wants more bodies, not better ones.

If you have Fire Dragons next to Wraithguard, your Wraithguard are no better than Fire Dragons - as their toughness means nothing when they're not getting shot at.

If you have Banshees and Wraithguard, your Banshees will get shot up. And, if they somehow survive to engage, your Wraithguard won't keep up - so they can kill your Banshees in CC then handle your Wraithguard on it's own.

On the other hand, your wraith constructs can be exposed before your footdar engage - forcing your opponent to engage the tougher targets. And a Wraithlord near Platforms/Guardian backfielders/Reapers really changes the opponent's options.

Ah okay,so a lot of anti synergy but also an ability to pose awkward questions for my opponent. I'm going to have a think about it and see if i can come up with a cool list to run as an example!

Also in your opinion, how good are wraithblades? My issue against them is I love Wraithguard with D scythes FAR too much!

So I ran the scorpion list last night against custodes. Maelstrom. Hammer and anvil.

It was also my first time running CHEs.

The fight was brutal. The scorpion shot the Orion dropship out of the sky T1 and forced the 8 custodian guard inside to footslog. The CHEs and the scorpion blew away the dawneagles and shield caps, and then spent the rest of the game ignoring/running away from the remaining ground forces while shooting them apart.

The Orion was actually insanely tanky. With doom, jinx, the autarch for rerolls, and an above average 19-shot roll on the twin pulsars, the scorpion only managed to inflict 18 damage on the Orion. Turns out T8 -2 to hit 5++ flyers are hard to kill

The CHEs also did extremely well. After seeing what they did to the dawneagles, I now understand why they are so much more competitive than hemlocks. They are simply perfectly suited to killing anything that can threaten them (fast, flying, hard hitting melee) and against any long ranged shooting they pretty much have a permanent -2 to hit (-3 if you need it) due to their 36"/48" guns.

Admittedly the matchup and deployment could not have been better for my list. But the maelstrom cards actually made it a close game and it was fun to see some new units on the battlefield.

Your scorpion looks AMAZING! How did you paint it???

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Your scorpion looks AMAZING! How did you paint it???

Thanks man. Just airbrushed it black and bone and did some edge highlights and decals. Still need to do details like gems and other random stuff.

This is the tactica thread btw, I'd be happy to answer questions in the P/M thread though