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Eldar - worrying that getting new stuff and 6th total psychic discipline (fate, battle counts as 2, harlies, Revenant, now also Fortune) would make them weaker.

Hi, I need some advices for my first game with Eldar, probably against GK, here's the list:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/781144.page#10592896

The plan is to stick the Spiritseer with the Reapers for Natural Leader and Protect, Troops for objectives and Farseer + Wave Serpent to give some punches..
I'm a noob but it feels "light", hope not to be tabled!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/08/create-your-own-warhostgw-homepage-post-2/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kdiyaeldari081019&fbclid=IwAR1mPDLhof0KW8u6eu0WaHdbL4uwpcokmKkpn_9cZ30QF3J6c3R-izwBNLk


22 traits to chose from in the "build your own Craftworld" section. Looks pretty interesting and i'm looking forward to finding out about the combos.

Tel11 wrote:
Regarding Hormets: the Vectored Engines, always advancing Alaitoc -3 to hit variant is very effective in ITC. I have had good luck with it, because turns 1 and 2 it makes for easy secondary scoring and objective capping, and when the chaff is dead by turn 3 it swoops in and ties up heavy units that cant fall back and shoot. All for 90 points.

I appreciate the information. I have been recently learning to play ITC missions and you provide interesting insight for use of Vectored Engines.

Nice. Ghostwalk grants +2" to charge roll on WC6. Potentially useful for charging out of deep strike.

Also 3++ wyches.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Eldar - worrying that getting new stuff and 6th total psychic discipline (fate, battle counts as 2, harlies, Revenant, now also Fortune) would make them weaker.

That's not the issue dude. 'Weakness' doesn't exist in a void - it's a comparative term. This will be *the* balance pass for Eldar for 8.5. My point was that the signs are that they'll be getting a lot less compared to SM, and may well take the single biggest nerf to competitive builds by losing -1 to hit from Alaitoc.

ALso you appear to be counting up disciplines from 4 completely different factions. A bit disingenuous, that... The new psychic power looks nice though - +2 to your charge is always welcome. More nudges towards CC builds...

 slave.entity wrote:
Nice. Ghostwalk grants +2" to charge roll on WC6.

Interesting wording it has, by the way - it can't target soup.

What would benefit the most from +2" to charge? What's the killiest/most durable eldar CC unit? Wraithblades? Skathach wraithknight?

EDIT: Oh god I forgot how sad wraithknight shooting is for the points. But I suppose with Ghostwalk you can start stomping as soon as you come in. Not sure if that's worth 500 points + a psyker though.

Wraithblades, Shining Spears with Biel-Tan for another +2.

Shining spears already have great options for getting into combat. Wraithblades is more interesting I guess.

Actually, I'm not super excited about wraithblades either. Even if they have a 3++ and a guaranteed charge and all of the killiest buffs they still seem pretty limited. They will kill whatever they touch and then get ignored for the rest of the game. 5" move with no guns is kind of a dealbreaker.

Wraithblades with axes and shields are pretty good, but you have to plan your army around them. They're too expensive and slow to just through on to the table; they need to operate as part of a team, something that can seize the center of the table and then use that position to push forward into winning position.

I like to take a couple of Wraithlords, some psykers (duh), and some Guardians for a screen, and position them roughly in a circle with the Wraithblades in the middle. Then, on one flank I have some fast stuff to zip forward, and some slower fire support to hold rear area objectives. It's not nearly as fast or flexible as traditional Eldar, but the Wraithblades are very tough and take buffs better than anything in the codex, so they can take on almost anything and win. Their #1 enemy is Damage 3 weapons like Thunder hammers or Imperial turbo lasers, so watch out for those!

 grouchoben wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Eldar - worrying that getting new stuff and 6th total psychic discipline (fate, battle counts as 2, harlies, Revenant, now also Fortune) would make them weaker.

That's not the issue dude. 'Weakness' doesn't exist in a void - it's a comparative term. This will be *the* balance pass for Eldar for 8.5. My point was that the signs are that they'll be getting a lot less compared to SM, and may well take the single biggest nerf to competitive builds by losing -1 to hit from Alaitoc.

ALso you appear to be counting up disciplines from 4 completely different factions. A bit disingenuous, that... The new psychic power looks nice though - +2 to your charge is always welcome. More nudges towards CC builds...

I'm personally in the middle of these view points. I agree that it seem quite likely that Aeldari will not be getting as much compared to Marines, and it seem quite likely that Alaitoc will get rebalanced a la the Raven Guard change.

But on the other hand, Aeldari need more internal balancing while Marines needed to be propped up as a whole. Marines were bottom tier for the most part (with exceptions, obviously). CWE, however had some fairly strong builds. Alaitoc is a problem, especially combined with all the other -1 tricks we have. Rejig Alaitoc to function like the new RG and it fits better with the other CW traits.
Next, you need to elevate the sub-par units that Eldar have that are decent on paper, but are outshined by other choices.

For the most part, it looks like that is what is happening. it won't be perfect, and there's bound to be stuff for either side to complain about, but once the dust settles, I am hopefully for something that is overall better than what we have now

-

I'm thinking wraithguard coming out of deepstrike could be a nice target for the+2 charge power. Dumping out the shots plus the ability to jump into melee could be something useful since it can help shield them from return fire.
However I think the webway may be jammed up with guardians shooting -1 ap shots!

It has me also thinking about my Wraithguard dropping in, shooting, then assault and trap a unit to avoid return fire. Could be interesting to learn.

Has anyone made use of runes of witnessing?
I'm wondering if shuriken cat bikes surrounding a skyseer might be viable? Guardian blobs? Skytarch to allow reroll ones to hit too?
Dooming the big target with the seer and also giving anti chaff guns reroll ones to wound seems interesting but 2cp might be a bit expensive since we don't always have a ton of cp to begin with.

All our strats have a hard time competing with LFR. Though with so many BS2 and BS1 + chapter master rerolls these days sometimes LFR barely makes a difference so in those cases Runes of Witnessing may be ok.

LFR can often be a trap since quite a few armies have cheap ways of adding +1 to hit or re-rolls. Enemies can easily drain your CP this way and Eldar often don't have a lot.

Runes of Witnessing, sure, I used them in a pinch, if Doom got denied or if I couldn't reach enemy with Doom. Like re-rolling 1's for Lances or all Serpents and troops disembarked from them. You want Faolchu wing or a bike for your Farseer for this.

Welp, good to know I dont need to bother finegling for a Jain Zar model.

Yeah, no miracles happened for Phoenix Lords.

I wonder if they give her new points.. damn shame. Disarm or the new power would have been better. But i gues then drazhar wouldint stand a chance... pretty meh.

kingheff wrote:
Has anyone made use of runes of witnessing?
I'm wondering if shuriken cat bikes surrounding a skyseer might be viable? Guardian blobs? Skytarch to allow reroll ones to hit too?
Dooming the big target with the seer and also giving anti chaff guns reroll ones to wound seems interesting but 2cp might be a bit expensive since we don't always have a ton of cp to begin with.

Lately i been running a firebase of 6x Shadow weavers with Autarch and Skyseer for re-roll 1 for hits and wounds and it's doing wonders for me also the individual nature of each weapon after deploy makes them quite durable when targeted.

Not meta worthy but the range no need for LoS and rend effect on 6+ for wounds it can pack quite a punch vs hordes and armor with some lucky rolls.

6d6 is a bit lacking to actually make use of re-rolling 1's. You need a pretty huge amount of units concentrated around Autarch/Seer (something like 6-8 with more shots) to make auras truly worth it.

Which is why I hate auras like that.

 Shadenuat wrote:
6d6 is a bit lacking to actually make use of re-rolling 1's. You need a pretty huge amount of units concentrated around Autarch/Seer (something like 6-8 with more shots) to make auras truly worth it.

Which is why I hate auras like that.

May I ask what your reasoning is behind this? Not I think you're wrong; I'm just curious as to how you determine an aura is "worth" it or not.

6D6 is an average of 21 shots. If you roll 21 dice you will roll an average three 1's. Paying 2CP for 3 re-rolls isn't great.

So, something that made me a little more disappointed, was listening to the FLG Signals stream last night. From what was said, the general indication is that there will be no points changes in this box set or the PA book.

Might have been said to throw people off the scent though.

I assume they will be in chapter approved?

Potentially, who knows.

Certainly hope so, but, who knows.

I'm most interested in the traits, specifically the alaitoc one. If that's unchanged then I think the flyers will probably get a price increase, if it goes in line with the new raven guard they may escape a price rise.

 slave.entity wrote:
6D6 is an average of 21 shots. If you roll 21 dice you will roll an average three 1's. Paying 2CP for 3 re-rolls isn't great.

Yeah. You need to buff a reasonable amount of units and do it through multiple turns to make even cheapest Autarch on foot worth it.

A lot of that depends on the quality of the shooting. If the autarch is buffing a big unit of reapers or a scorpion, for example, every hit is a big deal. If he's buffing a couple of advancing wave serpents armed with shuriken his aura counts for little.