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There is a ynarri topic floating around. But it kind of said everything to be said really.
The new crsftworlds at least opens up some new discussion tho.

Played a few 2000 point games with the new Codex running Ulthwe (my personal favorite), won both games rather handily. Here's my list and thoughts on each unit I brought:

Battalion
Autarch (Warlord, w/ Faolchu's Wing and Fate's Messenger trait) - Never got into combat, but between re-rolling 1s and netting me 3-4 CPs between refunds and the trait, I felt he more than made his points back.
Eldrad - I always ran him anyway, and with Doom, Guide, and Executioner, I can't complain. Shout out to the "Forewarning" stratagem, keeping him near the Dark Reapers was nasty.

2x5 Dire Avengers - Did their job bubble wrapping and killing a few light infantry, but thankfully now at a much more reasonable points cost.
5 Rangers - Even with the *massive* points reduction, I'm still not sure about these guys, but maybe that's because I just was rolling horribly with them...

Wraithguard, D-Scythes - Amazing, as always, and being T6 made a difference a few times.
Wave Serpent w/ 2BL, SC, CTM - Just as good as before, and the ability to spend 1 CP to discharge the shield again is ridiculously good. I didn't do this, but I can imagine it being a good idea to discharge turn 1 just so you can use the stratagem every turn following.

2 Fire Prisms - Holy moly are these guys amazing now with the Pulsed Laser Discharge + Linked Fire stratagem. Deleted anything I had them shoot at, and I'm glad to finally be fielding one of my favorite units again without feeling like I'm neutering my list.
5 Dark Reapers w/ Tempest Launcher - Amazing, like before, and I really can't believe they lowered the cost of these guys.

Hemlock Wraithfighter - Also can't believe this got cheaper, and the S12 made a difference more than once. Not being able to conceal itself hurt, but flying around and casting Jinx on units with powerful invuln saves was a godsend.

Outrider Detachment
Warlock Skyrunner - I really only ran the bike because I haven't painted my foot-lock, and really didn't do a whole lot besides concealing units that ended up not getting shot at.

5 Warp Spiders - Thank Khaine these guys can deep strike again, and though I still don't think they're anything to write home about, the points reduction makes me feel less guilty running them.
5 Swooping Hawks - Assault 4 vs Rapid Fire 2 is huge, as they don't have to leave themselves open to an easy charge in order to shoot at max potential. Wasn't unhappy with them.
2x3 Windriders - Solid objective grabbers, and the points reduction helps (obviously). Really all the fast attack units I brought did fine, but nothing spectacular.

Wraithlord w/ 2 flamers, 2SC, ghost glaive - Even with T8 and 4 attacks I have a hard time justifying bringing this. They're probably best completely bare-bones, but I love that sword.

For the record, this list would have been about 2300 points pre-codex. All in all, I'm very happy with the codex. Even with a far from optimized list, I can bring all my favorite units and still manage to bring the pain.

I'm really look forward to using some of the stratagems I didn't get a chance to - namely Phantasm and Webway Strike.

chosen_of_khaine wrote:
Played a few 2000 point games with the new Codex running Ulthwe (my personal favorite), won both games rather handily. Here's my list and thoughts on each unit I brought:

Battalion
Autarch (Warlord, w/ Faolchu's Wing and Fate's Messenger trait) - Never got into combat, but between re-rolling 1s and netting me 3-4 CPs between refunds and the trait, I felt he more than made his points back.
Eldrad - I always ran him anyway, and with Doom, Guide, and Executioner, I can't complain. Shout out to the "Forewarning" stratagem, keeping him near the Dark Reapers was nasty.

2x5 Dire Avengers - Did their job bubble wrapping and killing a few light infantry, but thankfully now at a much more reasonable points cost.
5 Rangers - Even with the *massive* points reduction, I'm still not sure about these guys, but maybe that's because I just was rolling horribly with them...

Wraithguard, D-Scythes - Amazing, as always, and being T6 made a difference a few times.
Wave Serpent w/ 2BL, SC, CTM - Just as good as before, and the ability to spend 1 CP to discharge the shield again is ridiculously good. I didn't do this, but I can imagine it being a good idea to discharge turn 1 just so you can use the stratagem every turn following.

2 Fire Prisms - Holy moly are these guys amazing now with the Pulsed Laser Discharge + Linked Fire stratagem. Deleted anything I had them shoot at, and I'm glad to finally be fielding one of my favorite units again without feeling like I'm neutering my list.
5 Dark Reapers w/ Tempest Launcher - Amazing, like before, and I really can't believe they lowered the cost of these guys.

Hemlock Wraithfighter - Also can't believe this got cheaper, and the S12 made a difference more than once. Not being able to conceal itself hurt, but flying around and casting Jinx on units with powerful invuln saves was a godsend.

Outrider Detachment
Warlock Skyrunner - I really only ran the bike because I haven't painted my foot-lock, and really didn't do a whole lot besides concealing units that ended up not getting shot at.

5 Warp Spiders - Thank Khaine these guys can deep strike again, and though I still don't think they're anything to write home about, the points reduction makes me feel less guilty running them.
5 Swooping Hawks - Assault 4 vs Rapid Fire 2 is huge, as they don't have to leave themselves open to an easy charge in order to shoot at max potential. Wasn't unhappy with them.
2x3 Windriders - Solid objective grabbers, and the points reduction helps (obviously). Really all the fast attack units I brought did fine, but nothing spectacular.

Wraithlord w/ 2 flamers, 2SC, ghost glaive - Even with T8 and 4 attacks I have a hard time justifying bringing this. They're probably best completely bare-bones, but I love that sword.

For the record, this list would have been about 2300 points pre-codex. All in all, I'm very happy with the codex. Even with a far from optimized list, I can bring all my favorite units and still manage to bring the pain.

I'm really look forward to using some of the stratagems I didn't get a chance to - namely Phantasm and Webway Strike.

Nice summaries They pretty much all follow what I expected, though I may add to the Tactica that Autarchs ability to get refunds on CP's can be pretty significant... don't think I mentioned that.

About rangers, if you only ran one unit of 5 then you shouldn't expect much, as a few bad rolls can mean they do nothing for a game. It's a unit where if you want to be popping characters reliably, you need at least 10-20 I reckon.


Edit:
While I talk about summaries, an update on the Tactica -

All summaries done (or at least drafted) for HQ, Troops, Elites and Heavy. All links should now be working, both page links and scroll links. I've also added in the Special Rules page, though I have only written in the craftworld traits so far and not any of the stratagems or warlord traits. I'll wait till I have my codex next to me to do that probably.

Galleries are now set up for most (if not all) of the units, but I haven't yet got photos for all of them so most galleries are empty.

FAQ is up, but only with one FAQ. I'm sure more will come soon enough ahah.

Oh, and you can now view the Tactica by unit role, or you can have all units appear in one long page. Turned out both solutions were possible simultaneously, with a bit of fiddling with links.

There is also a Contact form, if you want to contact me directly through the site, or there are Comment options at the bottom of each unit section. Feel free to use either.

Think that's all... hopefully it's a step in the right direction

So... Genuine question, and it sounds a bit dumb, but does an Avatar count as a named character or not?

It's not unique in the fluff, as there's one for every craftworld (well, still living ones, sorry Biel Tan). On the other hand, it's limited to one per army, and as far as I can tell, there's no real specific clarification as to what a "named character" is.

Basically, does the Avatar get access to relics? And is he stuck with the craftworld trait (most of which are garbage on him...), or can he choose from the others because he's not locked into a <Craftworld>?

I mean, right now, it seems like the Avatar is hot garbage, but giving it access to some toys might make it not entirely an afterthought.

 Fafnir wrote:
So... Genuine question, and it sounds a bit dumb, but does an Avatar count as a named character or not?

It's not unique in the fluff, as there's one for every craftworld (well, still living ones, sorry Biel Tan). On the other hand, it's limited to one per army, and as far as I can tell, there's no real specific clarification as to what a "named character" is.

Basically, does the Avatar get access to relics? And is he stuck with the craftworld trait (most of which are garbage on him...), or can he choose from the others because he's not locked into a <Craftworld>?

I mean, right now, it seems like the Avatar is hot garbage, but giving it access to some toys might make it not entirely an afterthought.

Not a dumb question, its pretty much up in the air until we get an FAQ.

RAW, he meets all the pre-requisites to have relics and there is nothing strictly stating he can't...

The only thing being that he is lumped in with the other special characters on the points tables.

Taking a look, the only relic he is eligible to take would be the Phoenix gem, double Resurrection anyone?? What a shame he can't take Faolchu's wing - jetbike Avatar

I think the intent was probably that he counts as named character, just my opinion. Either way I hope it will be clarified.





Looking good Niiru!

If he counts as a named character, he needs a drop of at least 50 points, because he is so counter-intuitive to everything Eldar have and do as an army right now, and what he does is just so mediocre (and SLOOOOOOOOW) compared to other factions' beatsticks.

The Avatar is absolutely a named character. He is the Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine. Specifically.

He falls under the table of special characters in the points section, if nothing else. No relics for him.

Which means he's also the only named character from a codex that can customize their faction keyword, as far as I know. Which is weird.

 Fafnir wrote:
Which means he's also the only named character from a codex that can customize their faction keyword, as far as I know. Which is weird.

I assume it's because listing every craftworld individually would be a waste of ink. The avatar shows up regardless of your craftworld affiliation, and fights revealing the facet of Khaine your craftworlders are most accustomed to expressing themselves. Hence, the <craftworld> keyword.

It is an interesting wrinkle though.

I'll pick my book on Monday. Is there any way to build your character to have an ability to target a specific model within a squad (such as squad leader or heavy weapon carrier). Unfortunately mind war seems to work only on characters.

 Knight wrote:
I'll pick my book on Monday. Is there any way to build your character to have an ability to target a specific model within a squad (such as squad leader or heavy weapon carrier). Unfortunately mind war seems to work only on characters.

Nothing that granular. Best you can do is bad things to characters. Or just evaporate the whole squad.

Also, for the Avatar thing, did GW say that the Avatar could take the Phoenix Gem on their stream? Because I've heard that to be the case, which makes the can of worms even... wormier. At which point, if GW's own marketing is having trouble with these ambiguities, we'll definitely need an FAQ on the issue.

I didn't watch the stream.
It's worth noting that GW Marketing has issued incorrect information previously, though typically on Facebook.

Just put your relics on other stuff. (Or go a step further and not use the Avatar, since he's slow melee that can't be deepstruck or transported.)

But I like the Avatar's fluff, I love the FW model, and I would like to build a force around it. The problem is that GW hates it.

Maybe the VDR stuff will let you make a transport for him then. Like a giant chariot thingy or something. Cause otherwise you're looking at him running across the field at 7+d6" since he's not a legal target for... well... virtually anything. Can't even Quicken him.

It's almost as if he was written for an entirely different army.

Tangent: I'm having trouble filling out my last 510ish points of Alaitoc. I have an air wing of hemlocks, and a battalion containing Illic, farseer, 15 rangers, and 3 fire prisms. I'd like to squeak in a spiritseer for 45, so I can mindwar people into the dirt (along with the mass of sniper rifles. No characters are safe!) but beyond that, I'm at a bit of a loss.

I can fit in 3 triple shuriken cannon wave serpents, but wouldn't have much to put inside them. I feel like a unit of wraith____ would be too expensive, and I wouldn't hit critical mass of warm eldar flesh on table. Scan bikes are tempting, I'd be able to fit a good 15 or so fairly easily.

I guess I'm just wondering what people put in their wave serpents... banshees and fire dragons?

I tend to put in my Reapers and my Characters, at least for the start of the game anyway.

Recommend taking a Warlock to specifically allow use of the Seer Council Stratagem.

ryzouken wrote:
Tangent: I'm having trouble filling out my last 510ish points of Alaitoc. I have an air wing of hemlocks, and a battalion containing Illic, farseer, 15 rangers, and 3 fire prisms. I'd like to squeak in a spiritseer for 45, so I can mindwar people into the dirt (along with the mass of sniper rifles. No characters are safe!) but beyond that, I'm at a bit of a loss.

I can fit in 3 triple shuriken cannon wave serpents, but wouldn't have much to put inside them. I feel like a unit of wraith____ would be too expensive, and I wouldn't hit critical mass of warm eldar flesh on table. Scan bikes are tempting, I'd be able to fit a good 15 or so fairly easily.

I guess I'm just wondering what people put in their wave serpents... banshees and fire dragons?

The air wing and the battalion are ok, but take the last detachment full of Dark Reapers. Then you got a pretty nice shooting phase. But it’s not really anything new to the meta in that shape. You try to outshoot other shooty armies. If you don’t go first, you lose. If you go first, you have a big advantage.

Banshees sound like a good idea, what with being able to charge directly from transports now. Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent are effectively pressing the delete button on any vehicle;e you happen to choose, maybe stick a BL and CTM on the one with the Dragons in just to add that bit more anti-tank opportunity. With some clever positioning, I'm right in thinking that you could move the wave serpent, then disembark and fire 4 or 5 fusion guns and a BL all at one tank, everything at full BS? Anything short of a superheavy will be wiped.

I am not taking Ynnari anything. Dark reapers don't seem like they'd be a good fit as they don't patch my lack of infantry killing.

Not sold on the recommendation of a warlock to enable the seer council stratagem. I only have 8 CP, and want to make liberal use of the fire and fade and linked fire stratagems to keep my fire prisms healthy and firing for multiple rounds. That's going to cost a lot of CP. I almost want an autarch to try and regenerate CP, but I see how often AM players whiff on their 5+ rolls so... mrrr....

Bear in mind I've still got the hemlocks and prisms putting out str 9 and 12 shots, potentially. I can pulse laser discharge the three prisms in linked fire mode, dumping 6d3 focused prism shots at a target that are S9 AP-4 d3D. I can also spank a target with three hemlocks dropping 6d3 S12 AP-4 2D. Tank targets are easy enough, and the mess of sniper rifles and mindwar should be able to erase characters well enough. It's general infantry killing I seem to be weak on. The prisms could do that instead, on turns I wasn't linking fire (CP is a limited resource, yo)

Need a good anti infantry solution... high ROF, decent S and AP, low damage, ideally with 24" range or better... it really sounds like shuriken cannons...

You may decide your mileage with the Seer Council Stratagem is less due to lower CP count. Always worth. Bearing in mind though. And there are bound to be times when you really need that doom to go off, so having the Warlock enables access to that +1 to cast.

I would always recommend people consider the option.

Shuricannons seems to be your best bet, though if you're not so bothered about the range, then lots of guardians with shuriken catapults could do the same job. Maybe a shuriken loadout focussed wave serpent, with guardians or dire avengers in it? Provides plenty of up close dakka that could mince a fair amount of light or medium infantry. Windriders would do the same job?

As a general Tactic note, Star Engines with the Matchless Agility Stratagem is now at least worth consideration. Being able to move your Wave Serpent a guaranteed 28" in a single movement phase to get your D-Scythe Wraithguard into position gives them a very large threat foot print on the board.

 DaemonColin wrote:
Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent are effectively pressing the delete button on any vehicle;e you happen to choose, maybe stick a BL and CTM on the one with the Dragons in just to add that bit more anti-tank opportunity. With some clever positioning, I'm right in thinking that you could move the wave serpent, then disembark and fire 4 or 5 fusion guns and a BL all at one tank, everything at full BS? Anything short of a superheavy will be wiped.

It takes 7 Dragons firing from 5.9" to kill a Leman Russ, on average. This is very much not automatic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Banshees can move across the board as good as, if not better than Harlequins, they are a great supporting melee unit, and if you give them use of CP's they can gain a +1 to wound making them actually dangerous, when they have Power weapons and can wound up to T5 on 4+ or T3 on 3+ its not bad.

What stratagem gives +1 to wound on Banshees?

Swooping Hawks could fit the bill, they're cheap, shooty and can deep strike into cover turn 1. 500 points buys a lot of hawks.

Separate topic: I'm disappointed that Storm Guardians* can only take 2 special weapons, instead of 2 per 10. I was considering webway dropping 20 with 4 fusion guns, which essentially means dropping 4 12" bright lances with 16 ablative wounds in my opponent's face (would work better with Iyanden). Too bad that's not possible.


* their chainsword is free now, so they hit about 50% harder than they used to at 7 points. Still not terribly impressive, but it's a buff.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Banshees can move across the board as good as, if not better than Harlequins, they are a great supporting melee unit, and if you give them use of CP's they can gain a +1 to wound making them actually dangerous, when they have Power weapons and can wound up to T5 on 4+ or T3 on 3+ its not bad.

What stratagem gives +1 to wound on Banshees?

Probably thinking of empower from runes of battle. Not seeing a stratagem that does it.

If you are happy to go forgeworld shadow spectres are great anti infantry.

Otherwise you are looking at guardians jumping out of a wave serpent or swooping hawks out of deep strike.

Wyldcarde wrote:
If you are happy to go forgeworld shadow spectres are great anti infantry.

Otherwise you are looking at guardians jumping out of a wave serpent or swooping hawks out of deep strike.

Ugh. Yeah. Shadow spectres. Probably the best solution. It's a little frustrating that they're significantly better than the standard codex options. They're far better defensively than windriders, almost equal offensively, and cost a point less. A touch slower, but not really enough to matter.

It's pretty amusing that swooping hawks can further boost the mind war shenanigans. "Hey Mr. Reboot Gorillaman! You're Ld 7 (horrify + mindshock pod) now. Roll against my Ld 12 (embolden, swooping hawk exarch) and DIE!!!" Might be able to one round him what with Illic and 15 rangers in the wings...

About the Avatar.
He is not THE Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine. Instead he is
A Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine.

There are multiple ones. Dont know how many Craftwordls exist, but i dont see why i wouldnt give him another Warlord Trait other then one of the 5.