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I under value soon because of the meta. Right now thier arnt good target for doom. In all of the game room has amazing targets like knights and such. Doom is good when you hit a high value enemy unit that alot of your own units are going to shoot at. However if you look at all the top competive list. You will see a surprising lack of such targets. On top of that for some of our units this doom might only turn into reroll 1s depending on the target. On top of that getting into range is a rather serious consideration with only 24" at your disposal that one good target might be a stretch to doom. TLDR: doom is great, but meta targets are hard to find, and positioning to use it is counter intuitive.


As for the warlock skyrunner. Ywah i can see him being abit expensivw, but only ao much in comparison to his cheaper options. However the skyrunner' s power come in when combos with another warlock. Empower I'd argue is the 2nd best power for our eldar boys. Compared to other armies we have on average some pretty low strength weapons in melee +1 to would on shining spear model can be a 50% increase on melee damage against most tanks/monster. Empower becomes even better when you see it goes off on a 6. The problem being is often you want to quicken a unit and buff them with empower (and/or enhance). The thing is you usually want to quicken first as failing quicken means casting empower on a different unit is a better idea. However after quicken units can be as little as 7" or as much as 22" further away now. Meaning being in range is a real struggle. Woth the skyrunner lock. He can wait in a position where he knows he'll most likely be in range after quicken. Where the foot lock lacks this capability and most be positioned premptivingly. This problem is most evident when using shining spears.

Another consideration that I'll edit into my previous post because its very important. Warlocks vs spirit seer. The warlocks have access to one very powerful stratagem in the name of seer council. This stratagem is of our best. Which if you have the CP positions the lock as almost a q of auto include if you have any melee and a far seer in your list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I could use some thoughts on how to finish a list. I put it up in the army list section but it's also in a spoiler below. Essentially I have 160ish points to spend on something to fit into a mech list. Not enough for a unit in a transport so it needs to be something that can keep itself safe and is fast. Aspect Warriors would be preferred and a CC unit would nice. I'm actually finding it a tough choice between Shining Spears and Striking Scorpions lol.

Spoiler:

Biel-Tan Mech Eldar:

1 Battalion, 1 Spearhead and one Vanguard for 8cp.


Spiritseer- Warlord w/ rerolls tests trait and Quicken
Spiritseer- Reroll tests Relic and Enhance
Farseer- Doom and Guide
Warlock- Protect
Warlock- Empower

20 Guardian Defenders- Guardian Bomb from the Webway.

5x Dire Avengers + Exarch + 2x Catapult
5x Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent + 3x Cannons + Vector Eng.

5x Dire Avengers + Exarch + 2x Catapult
5x Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent + 3x Cannons + Vector Eng.

10 x Howling Banshees + Exarch + Executioner
- Wave Serpent + 3x Cannons + Vector Eng.

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

1833pts


So, the list deploys as 6 Tanks, 3 Prisms and 3 Serpents containing the infantry and HQs, with Guardians waiting in the Webway.
Lot's of Psykers to buff stuff. There will always be something for them to do but buffing the hell out of the Guardian Bomb, and later the Banshees, is their main plan.

Now, the remaining points were originally for a unit of 10 Scorpions who work well with the list due to:
1- staying off the board so I'm only deploying 6 tanks.
2- being another unit that makes good use of buffs.

However, Scorpions are less than amazing and I have been considering two other options:

5x Shining Spears + Exarch W/ Star Lance

Pros: Awesome unit that is very killy and makes great use of Runes of Battle buffs.
Cons: Deploys on the board with a huge target on their back (they could go in the webway but that's at least 2cp + help getting a charge).

Or:

5x Swooping Hawks + 5x Warp Spiders

Pros: Stay off the board so I'm only deploying tanks. Great for grabbing objectives all over the board.
Cons: They don't do a fat lot else, just a little anti-infantry shooting.


Which of these is best? Is there a better alternative? I'm leaning towards a close combat unit to make the most of the Runes of Battle.

I'd go spears and drop a banshee for a unit of swooping hawks. Swooping hawks are a great part of eldar late game. Dropping turn 1 to camp an objectivr, and if not dealt with, leaving and coming back turn 3 to claim another objective when most of the models in the game are dead and deepstri king them in is easier.

mmimzie wrote:

As for the warlock skyrunner. Ywah i can see him being abit expensivw, but only ao much in comparison to his cheaper options. However the skyrunner' s power come in when combos with another warlock. Empower I'd argue is the 2nd best power for our eldar boys. Compared to other armies we have on average some pretty low strength weapons in melee +1 to would on shining spear model can be a 50% increase on melee damage against most tanks/monster. Empower becomes even better when you see it goes off on a 6. The problem being is often you want to quicken a unit and buff them with empower (and/or enhance). The thing is you usually want to quicken first as failing quicken means casting empower on a different unit is a better idea. However after quicken units can be as little as 7" or as much as 22" further away now. Meaning being in range is a real struggle. Woth the skyrunner lock. He can wait in a position where he knows he'll most likely be in range after quicken. Where the foot lock lacks this capability and most be positioned premptivingly. This problem is most evident when using shining spears.

I agree that Empower is one of the better powers in the warlock set, but I also see skyrunners are being more valuable overall – especially when working with lots of fast moving units.

For me, being able to continue to support the first turn charge units, after the first turn is pretty key and helps maintain enough early pressure in a game to sometimes swing it your way. I also think people under estimate the power of having 3 or 4 units that can easily move 22” around the table when needed. Even if it is just to claim an objective, dump 4 mortal wounds on a character or help secure you another ITC secondary point (if you’re playing an ITC game).

I also think, there are options available to us that would reduce the risk in leaving Quicken to last. One combo I’m very interested in testing is the Biel-tan relic and the Seer council stratagem to give me a 6+ re-rollable cast on Quicken. It also leaves the option open for a CP use if I roll something like a 4 and a 1 and don’t need to risk a full re-roll.

Thanks for the input. I'm a little surprised by the love for Spiders and Hawks but I think they might be the sensible choice. I'm thinking the Hawks drop on an objective turn 1 (playing maelstrom), while the Spiders wait till turn 2. The Hawks leave the board turn 2 if they lived and come back turn 3 for another objective. So that would grab me 3 objectives over 3 turns if all goes well.

I don't understand being down on Doom because there aren't good targets for it in the meta but then praising Empower which only affects a single attacking unit, only affects CC, and is almost always worse than if the unit's target had Doom cast on it instead.

mmimzie wrote:


I'd go spears and drop a banshee for a unit of swooping hawks. Swooping hawks are a great part of eldar late game. Dropping turn 1 to camp an objectivr, and if not dealt with, leaving and coming back turn 3 to claim another objective when most of the models in the game are dead and deepstri king them in is easier.

What about Shadow Spectres and Hawks? For 150 you can get 3 Shadow Spectres and a 6 man unit of Hawks including a Hawk's Talon. The Spectres can easily be hidden and have a nice 12" move and an inbuild -1 to hit, but, the risk of them getting destroyed is high due to them only being a 3 man unit. For 138 you can bump this up to 6 Spectres. They don't however, really fill much for a "cc" role though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:
I don't understand being down on Doom because there aren't good targets for it in the meta but then praising Empower which only affects a single attacking unit, only affects CC, and is almost always worse than if the unit's target had Doom cast on it instead.

I don’t get the “no meta targets for doom” argument either. I’d have no issue casting doom on a blob of infantry if I wanted to remove them, or a squad of something like devastators. Sure, it helps a lot more when targeting big things, but people always seem to forget that the little things win games more often than the big things.

I tend to avoid Forge World. People on here have been raving about Spectres for ages and my eye twitches whenever the discussion goes in their direction lol.

Doom is the best Eldar power IMO. I feel like if you do the maths it's going to come out on top of the others even in 1v1 situations. The fact that it can affect your whole army makes it way better.

I made a lulz list that might work in theory...?

Craftworld Cena


Get it?! GET IT!? John Cena?! ...sorry.

Everything has an inherent -1 to-hit generally speaking (or a way to obtain it). This is meant to stack with Alaitoc trait to make the army -2 to-hit at 12". Yea, I blow 1CP on the Plume, but the idea of the -2 to-hit Autarch landing behind the Specters to help re-roll 1's made me chuckle. This eats up a lot of CP. Obviously, the Autarch Plume is optional, but was put in for the theme. To get the most deep strike / infiltrates I would need to deploy two Ranger units on the table (to meet the 50% requirement). That does mean Illic, 1x Rangers, 3x Warp Spiders, the Farseer and the Autarch all go in reserve. I can also opt to throw the Ranger squad and Illic on the table, given their ranged firepower, and Webway two of the Specter squads. The CHE stays outside 12" and tries to pop tanks. Hornets advance and CTM their guns against nearby juicy targets. This is the tough one - as they must engage the nearest enemy to be at -2 to-hit, so their positioning will be key.

Anyhow, just tinkering with the idea. I think this list would frustrate the crap out of people to play against. But I am not sure it has the tools to hold up in a competitive setting.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I tend to avoid Forge World. People on here have been raving about Spectres for ages and my eye twitches whenever the discussion goes in their direction lol.

Doom is the best Eldar power IMO. I feel like if you do the maths it's going to come out on top of the others even in 1v1 situations. The fact that it can affect your whole army makes it way better.

Yeah, forgeworld can be a little contentious at times, right up to causing people to explode in fury but i do like some of the models they do.

I keep toying with the idea of doing a Yme-Loc army based around a Scorpion, Lynx, Warp Hunters etc... but each time i try it i get to like 5 models and am suddenly left with like 150 points....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I made a lulz list that might work in theory...?

Craftworld Cena

Spoiler:

Alaitoc Outrider

HQ:
Illic Nightspear
[80]

Fast Attack:
Hornet
CTM, Vectored Engines 2x Pulse Lasers, Spirit Stones
[170]

Hornet
CTM, Vectored Engines 2x Pulse Lasers, Spirit Stones
[170]

(8) Warp Spiders
Exarch w/ 2x Spinners
[152]

Flyer:
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Bright Lances
[175]

[747]

Alaitoc Battalion

HQ:
Farseer
Shiftshroud of Alanssair
Guide & Doom
[100]

Autarch with Wings
Shimmerplume of Achillrial
Fusion Pistol, Power Sword
[98]

Elites:
(8) Shadow Spectres
Prism Rifles, Exarch
[188]

(8) Shadow Spectres
Prism Rifles, Exarch
[188]

(8) Shadow Spectres
Prism Rifles, Exarch
[188]

Troops:
(5) Rangers
[60]

(5) Rangers
[60]

(5) Rangers
[60]

Fast Attack:
(8) Warp Spiders
Exarch w/ 2x Spinners
[152]

(8) Warp Spiders
Exarch w/ 2x Spinners
[152]

[1246]

[1993]

Get it?! GET IT!? John Cena?! ...sorry.

Everything has an inherent -1 to-hit generally speaking (or a way to obtain it). This is meant to stack with Alaitoc trait to make the army -2 to-hit at 12". Yea, I blow 1CP on the Plume, but the idea of the -2 to-hit Autarch landing behind the Specters to help re-roll 1's made me chuckle. This eats up a lot of CP. Obviously, the Autarch Plume is optional, but was put in for the theme. To get the most deep strike / infiltrates I would need to deploy two Ranger units on the table (to meet the 50% requirement). That does mean Illic, 1x Rangers, 3x Warp Spiders, the Farseer and the Autarch all go in reserve. I can also opt to throw the Ranger squad and Illic on the table, given their ranged firepower, and Webway two of the Specter squads. The CHE stays outside 12" and tries to pop tanks. Hornets advance and CTM their guns against nearby juicy targets. This is the tough one - as they must engage the nearest enemy to be at -2 to-hit, so their positioning will be key.

Anyhow, just tinkering with the idea. I think this list would frustrate the crap out of people to play against. But I am not sure it has the tools to hold up in a competitive setting.

Hard to play well, but, when it works it'll be absolutely hilarious to play (but maybe not for your opponent)... Next time you play them you'll see them with dozens of flamers

I think our Runes of Fate powers pretty much stack up like this:

1) Doom
2) Guide
3) Fortune
4) Executioner

That's my personal preference, and obviously I disagree with Doom being one of the weakest Fate powers. It is silly good. I have yet to have a unit survive being Doomed. And while it is easy to blow away a unit in a turn in 8th edition... what Doom does is minimize the effort put into removing the target. It also allows weaker units to engage things that they normally wouldn't waste the time on... like Guardians or Banshees taking on armor.

I think 2 Farseers is a pretty good selection. Eldrad is better than 1 Farseer, but being better than 2 is definitely a stretch. You get +1 power, +1 deny, an extra Farseer Runes for rerolls, and an extra body that doesn't take all your powers due to a botch in placement or a bad turn. With so many multi-HQ detachments, as well, it isn't like a Craftworld army will ever be taking a solitary HQ. So the second Farseer isn't exactly a 100 point tax for the "third power", if anything, it is more like a 70 point "tax", but the extra perks are mentioned above.

I've outlined this earlier in the thread, but I tend to run 2 Farseers, one with Guide and Fortune, the other with Doom and Executioner. That allows me to keep my buffs closer to the high value targets lurking towards the back of the field (Dark Reapers, Fire Prisms, Wraithknights, etc.), and he can possibly stretch out to hit a buff on a unit towards the middle of the field in the case of Webway Guardians. The second Farseer usually closes on the enemy to supply a bit of mid-field support to my advance units. This allows Doom and Executioner to reach into the enemy lines, where it needs to be.

My experience with Eldar has been that the early game, those psychic powers really shine. Units are larger and the buffs/debuffs seem to be more prominent. Not getting the right buff in the right spot can lead to trouble a few turns later, due to sinking more strength into removing a threat or having a valuable asset weakened due to no support. They kind of get softer as the game goes on and battle fatigue starts setting into the army, but that's when powers like Executioner and Smite really can break a close game.

I'm rambling quite a bit here, and I apologize

In my list, I personally rate executioner above guide. Again, simply because of my list.
Fortune > Doom > Executioner > Guide is my order of priority for the list I’ve created and the style I will run it in. Of course, this is probably massively different to most other lists and priorities though.

But I agree – a farseer with both doom and executioner is a mid-field monster. Add in the stratagem to cast smite as well, and you’re punishing units/characters severely.

Guide Ian probably the most situational.
With units like dark reapers, shadow spectres and guardians guide can be awesome. But otherwise it can be a bit flat.

Right now I've been running a farseer with guide and doom and he usually has faolchu's wing so he gets a poor mans jetbike. This ensures that DOOM is always in range, and also that GUIDE is always in range of my crimson hunter.

I run a bunch of units of 3 dark reapers to exploit the free exarch. I know that big units are a bit better for exploiting powers, but i like having little 3 man units running around with 1/3 of their shots rerolling 1's.

Remember guide is not what it used to be as a buff for some of your shooty units, due to the way modifiers stack on after re-rolls.

Guide for a large unit of Dark Reapers = good number of extra hits.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter Exarch - Totally useless

So yes, totally dependant on your own list build as people have said. I for one have absolutely no need for it in mine, nearly everything significantly shooty already has some sort of re-roll to hit built in or sits next to the Autarch.

Spartacus wrote:
Remember guide is not what it used to be as a buff for some of your shooty units, due to the way modifiers stack on after re-rolls.

Guide for a large unit of Dark Reapers = good number of extra hits.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter Exarch - Totally useless

So yes, totally dependant on your own list build as people have said. I for one have absolutely no need for it in mine, nearly everything significantly shooty already has some sort of re-roll to hit built in or sits next to the Autarch.

It's more the DOOM that is used to great effect, but good points all around.

Spartacus wrote:

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Wow, I didn't even think of this. So if you roll a 2, it isn't technically a miss eligible for reroll, then you suffer the -1 for moving. Lame
Makes the Exarch upgrade worth every point then. since either way you're only rerolling 1s.

-

 Galef wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Wow, I didn't even think of this. So if you roll a 2, it isn't technically a miss eligible for reroll, then you suffer the -1 for moving. Lame
Makes the Exarch upgrade worth every point then. since either way you're only rerolling 1s.

-

Exactly. Same goes for many FW and other vehicles/fliers which hit on 2's, but will usually be moving for the -1 modifier. You're much better off going for a source of re-rolling 1's in the majority of cases.

A basic Autarch with Star Glaive is just 77 points which is pretty cheap, give him the Wing Relic so he can run around spreading his 6 inch buff to as many units as possible( ). On top of that you get CP's back on 6's and a decent bit of melee damage from him as well. The index is still a great option also if you're that way inclined.

 Korlandril wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Anyone know why the Biel-tan strat is 2CP? It would be more useful if it was 1 as power wise it's in line with the other Craftworld specific ones. Easily the worst Craftworld specific just because it's 2CP and not 1 despite being so similar to the Saim-hann strat.

Everything involving the Avatar is ridiculously overpriced.

That's about all there is to it.


Yes, I'm bitter.

Not even considering the Avatar in that lol maybe if the regular version was what the Avatar gave it would be worth it.

I think the 3CP is more effective use of CP than the Biel-tan strat.

I ended up blowing 9 CP bringing The Avatar back 3 times in my last game. He was a pretty good sponge but he is far too fragile. He really should have a 2+/4+ like in the old days.

Used to be he would be protected from Dreadnoughts due to better initiative, usually wrecking them before they could attack, high WS meaning they would hit on 4+/5+. Would take about 40 attacks for them to take him down (if they got to attack). Nowadays if a Dreadnought gets a round against you The Avatar is probably going down hard.

Oh wow, what was the reasoning for using basically all your CP on the resurection strat? You must have had a better use for them surely. How did the game go?

Was 3k vs Alpha Legion and i had 13CP (and got another 4 via the Autarch recycle), my Avatar is my pride and joy and so i refused to let him die. He ended up getting beat down by a Relic Leviathan Dreadnought x2 and a Black Mace armed Dark Apostle. Brought him back to kill what took him down each time.

I was in a good position early on, stole initiative and one shotted his Storm Eagle with Death Star inside, obliterated a 10 man unit of possessed and crippled a few cultist units in turn 1. Weathered the storm with few casualties in return then the following turn had the Banshees open up on a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with re-roll hits (Ancient Doom), extra attack on 6 (Supreme Disdain), re-roll wounds (The Great Enemy) and +1 to wound (Empower) as well as making short work of some Warp Talons, Bikers and Cultists with the rest of my force. Given this and the large number of CP's i had at my disposal i was happy to play a bit risky with my Avatar and let him tank some hits for my more vulnerable Aspect Warriors.

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Was 3k vs Alpha Legion and i had 13CP (and got another 4 via the Autarch recycle), my Avatar is my pride and joy and so i refused to let him die. He ended up getting beat down by a Relic Leviathan Dreadnought x2 and a Black Mace armed Dark Apostle. Brought him back to kill what took him down each time.

I was in a good position early on, stole initiative and one shotted his Storm Eagle with Death Star inside, obliterated a 10 man unit of possessed and crippled a few cultist units in turn 1. Weathered the storm with few casualties in return then the following turn had the Banshees open up on a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with re-roll hits (Ancient Doom), extra attack on 6 (Supreme Disdain), re-roll wounds (The Great Enemy) and +1 to wound (Empower) as well as making short work of some Warp Talons, Bikers and Cultists with the rest of my force. Given this and the large number of CP's i had at my disposal i was happy to play a bit risky with my Avatar and let him tank some hits for my more vulnerable Aspect Warriors.

Sounds like it was a great battle!

Taking the fire off my Aspect Warriors is often a huge part of my list building and play for my CWE.

I can't really do one or two big squads, because they get demolished. I need lots of similar-threat-levels to distract and redirect my opponent.

Spartacus wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Was 3k vs Alpha Legion and i had 13CP (and got another 4 via the Autarch recycle), my Avatar is my pride and joy and so i refused to let him die. He ended up getting beat down by a Relic Leviathan Dreadnought x2 and a Black Mace armed Dark Apostle. Brought him back to kill what took him down each time.

I was in a good position early on, stole initiative and one shotted his Storm Eagle with Death Star inside, obliterated a 10 man unit of possessed and crippled a few cultist units in turn 1. Weathered the storm with few casualties in return then the following turn had the Banshees open up on a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with re-roll hits (Ancient Doom), extra attack on 6 (Supreme Disdain), re-roll wounds (The Great Enemy) and +1 to wound (Empower) as well as making short work of some Warp Talons, Bikers and Cultists with the rest of my force. Given this and the large number of CP's i had at my disposal i was happy to play a bit risky with my Avatar and let him tank some hits for my more vulnerable Aspect Warriors.

Sounds like it was a great battle!

Couldn't possibly let this guy go down!

 DivineVisitor wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Was 3k vs Alpha Legion and i had 13CP (and got another 4 via the Autarch recycle), my Avatar is my pride and joy and so i refused to let him die. He ended up getting beat down by a Relic Leviathan Dreadnought x2 and a Black Mace armed Dark Apostle. Brought him back to kill what took him down each time.

I was in a good position early on, stole initiative and one shotted his Storm Eagle with Death Star inside, obliterated a 10 man unit of possessed and crippled a few cultist units in turn 1. Weathered the storm with few casualties in return then the following turn had the Banshees open up on a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with re-roll hits (Ancient Doom), extra attack on 6 (Supreme Disdain), re-roll wounds (The Great Enemy) and +1 to wound (Empower) as well as making short work of some Warp Talons, Bikers and Cultists with the rest of my force. Given this and the large number of CP's i had at my disposal i was happy to play a bit risky with my Avatar and let him tank some hits for my more vulnerable Aspect Warriors.

Sounds like it was a great battle!

Couldn't possibly let this guy go down!

Oh no, those colours are my least favourite should have let it die

I was comparing the point cost and capabilities of a AM Shadowsword and a Heavy Wraithcannon Wraithknight and I was feeling utterly insulted by the superiority of the former, when something came to mind.
The Shadowsword, with it's single big fat cannon, can either destroy (or heavily damage) a LoW target or overkill a tank-level threat each turn. Whereas a HWC WK can concentrate its shots on a big target or split each weapon against two lighter target.
That flexibility may not seem like much, but it could explain part of the (excessively) hefty cost of the HWC WK.

Does it look a little less overpriced in this new light?

Not sure if everyone has seen this link....its a nice tool but has a few errors

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Eldar(8E) .

ie: they have support weapons as a webway portal suggestion which is illegal. Stuff like that but tons of good critiques.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Divinevisitor is that Avatar different from the forgeworld basic?

It seems like you took the sword avatar and the spear avatar and swapped them out? or am I just looking at it funny?

I always wanted to put the sword in right hand of your model and the spear in the other.....wish I could see more of the spear in your Avatar.

That link leads to an empty page for me.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
That link leads to an empty page for me.

Add the missing parenthesis at the end of the link.

Okay, what about an army built around all six phoenix lords?

865 points for the six of them, so add support units, maybe Eldrad or the Avatar, some wave serpents for them to ride around in.

I know it's probably not competitive, but tactically viable or fun? Or just a one-sided slaughter?

I started thinking about this idea when I was looking for synergies and noticed that all the phoenix lords have the aspect warrior tag. So that means if they're within 6" of Asurmen, they get the 5++

Fuegan, Karandras, and Asurmen are by far the best phoenix lords. I could see a list semi-effectively use Fuegan, Asurmen and Karandras together with like 20 fire dragons, 20-30 dire avengers and 20 striking scorpions either deep striking or in serpents with a lot of warlock support. It would probably be best with the Biel-tan craftworld so you get lots of free re-rolls to hit and the warlord trait that is essentially a free guide for a unit of fire dragons. The fire dragons might actually survive a round of shooting with asurmen's save and the striking scorpions could pop up where ever needed and lay down a lot of attacks. Especially if you hit a squad with the enhance power to get exploding attacks on 5+. It would be hard to fit all of the 'buff' characters you need in the list like warlocks and an autarch for the scorpions

 Helvost wrote:
Fuegan, Karandras, and Asurmen are by far the best phoenix lords. I could see a list semi-effectively use Fuegan, Asurmen and Karandras together with like 20 fire dragons, 20-30 dire avengers and 20 striking scorpions either deep striking or in serpents with a lot of warlock support. It would probably be best with the Biel-tan craftworld so you get lots of free re-rolls to hit and the warlord trait that is essentially a free guide for a unit of fire dragons. The fire dragons might actually survive a round of shooting with asurmen's save and the striking scorpions could pop up where ever needed and lay down a lot of attacks. Especially if you hit a squad with the enhance power to get exploding attacks on 5+. It would be hard to fit all of the 'buff' characters you need in the list like warlocks and an autarch for the scorpions

WOW that is a vision

 Helvost wrote:
Fuegan, Karandras, and Asurmen are by far the best phoenix lords. I could see a list semi-effectively use Fuegan, Asurmen and Karandras together with like 20 fire dragons, 20-30 dire avengers and 20 striking scorpions either deep striking or in serpents with a lot of warlock support. It would probably be best with the Biel-tan craftworld so you get lots of free re-rolls to hit and the warlord trait that is essentially a free guide for a unit of fire dragons. The fire dragons might actually survive a round of shooting with asurmen's save and the striking scorpions could pop up where ever needed and lay down a lot of attacks. Especially if you hit a squad with the enhance power to get exploding attacks on 5+. It would be hard to fit all of the 'buff' characters you need in the list like warlocks and an autarch for the scorpions

I also like this idea. I might scrape together some more scorpions and actually try this.

 admironheart wrote:
Who has faced the new Nids yet ?

Any big changes that we should be scared of other than the psychic stuff?

I've some experience versus the new nids and have only one struggle in dealing with them...

Genestealers + Swarmlord can very easily get a charge off to my backline first turn, so I've found it very useful to bubble wrap my targets or mount them in transports to protect from assassination attempts (farseers etc). I've seen several games where a unit of genestealers pulls off a 30+ inch charge turn 1 to assassinate multiple characters. Other than that, Nids are not a major concern.