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mmimzie wrote:

As before i think the all troop idea is neat. Each troop while not mazing stand out can do thier own thing pretty well. Melee from harliquin troops in quick transports. MObile fire platforms in the form of kabalite warrios in raiders, and really strong fire support from wave serepents, and access to scouts from good ol craftworld. Everything wanting to be in soul burst range also helps them take advantage of that attriubute.

I stand my case: CWE flavor is outside troops. Guardians are bland, Dire Avengers are shootier Guardians. Only Rangers are a bit special.
The "only troops" Ynnari would need exclusive elite, fast and heavy slots. It could be cool if GW came with inspired designs and rules for them.
Well, it will be long before we know

mmimzie wrote:
One question we still ahve is what rules does the banshee mask for autarch use if you give it to the skyrunner autarch <.<

You use the Codex rules for Wargear, if they exist (even if the option to buy it comes from an Index entry). This is good news as the Codex Banshee mask is definitely better than the Index one for a lone wolf like the Biketarch.

I think you always use the newest rules and points.

Imagine if the game changed LasCannon to a str 10 d6 shot 1 damage weapon instead of the old str 9 1 shot d6 damage.

And now you pay for the points of the new weapon and all the other criteria but now you tell your opponent t that your using the old rules?

The current rules for the weapon, the current points etc.

 Karhedron wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
One question we still ahve is what rules does the banshee mask for autarch use if you give it to the skyrunner autarch <.<

You use the Codex rules for Wargear, if they exist (even if the option to buy it comes from an Index entry). This is good news as the Codex Banshee mask is definitely better than the Index one for a lone wolf like the Biketarch.

yes that's true, but i don't see anywhere in the codex where the banshee's mask has rules of it's own that is not appart of some other models war scroll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DanielFM wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

As before i think the all troop idea is neat. Each troop while not mazing stand out can do thier own thing pretty well. Melee from harliquin troops in quick transports. MObile fire platforms in the form of kabalite warrios in raiders, and really strong fire support from wave serepents, and access to scouts from good ol craftworld. Everything wanting to be in soul burst range also helps them take advantage of that attriubute.

I stand my case: CWE flavor is outside troops. Guardians are bland, Dire Avengers are shootier Guardians. Only Rangers are a bit special.
The "only troops" Ynnari would need exclusive elite, fast and heavy slots. It could be cool if GW came with inspired designs and rules for them.
Well, it will be long before we know

lol your definitly right it would be a long, but you'd still ahve access to all the HQ who are also pretty good. Then you'd have access to tyhe transports which are also quite varied. with just those you'd have more stuff than harliquins have now even if you excluded named characters.

mmimzie wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
One question we still ahve is what rules does the banshee mask for autarch use if you give it to the skyrunner autarch <.<

You use the Codex rules for Wargear, if they exist (even if the option to buy it comes from an Index entry). This is good news as the Codex Banshee mask is definitely better than the Index one for a lone wolf like the Biketarch.

yes that's true, but i don't see anywhere in the codex where the banshee's mask has rules of it's own that is not appart of some other models war scroll.

This is a little unclear in the general case but the Autarch is actually used as an example in the new Commentary and they outright say that the codex contains rules for all of the Autarch's wargear right after mentioning taking one with a Banshee Mask.

Here's a weird thing: the Commentary only says to use the index's "wargear options". Does this include the base wargear or no? If I want to take a foot Autarch with twin avenger catapults, does he also have a star glaive, plasma grenades, and a forceshield, or does he instead have a shuriken pistol and sunburst grenades? Presumably the latter, right? Since one of the wargear options is to exchange a shuriken pistol for a fusion pistol, and the whole point of this is not to make people's models illegal. But then if he doesn't have a star glaive and does have a shuriken pistol, does he have a forceshield? They just errata'd this for the codex version but not the index. Though since you're using the codex datasheet otherwise I guess he'd have the ability called "forceshield" either way.

Dionysodorus wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
One question we still ahve is what rules does the banshee mask for autarch use if you give it to the skyrunner autarch <.<

You use the Codex rules for Wargear, if they exist (even if the option to buy it comes from an Index entry). This is good news as the Codex Banshee mask is definitely better than the Index one for a lone wolf like the Biketarch.

yes that's true, but i don't see anywhere in the codex where the banshee's mask has rules of it's own that is not appart of some other models war scroll.

This is a little unclear in the general case but the Autarch is actually used as an example in the new Commentary and they outright say that the codex contains rules for all of the Autarch's wargear right after mentioning taking one with a Banshee Mask.

Here's a weird thing: the Commentary only says to use the index's "wargear options". Does this include the base wargear or no? If I want to take a foot Autarch with twin avenger catapults, does he also have a star glaive, plasma grenades, and a forceshield, or does he instead have a shuriken pistol and sunburst grenades? Presumably the latter, right? Since one of the wargear options is to exchange a shuriken pistol for a fusion pistol, and the whole point of this is not to make people's models illegal. But then if he doesn't have a star glaive and does have a shuriken pistol, does he have a forceshield? They just errata'd this for the codex version but not the index. Though since you're using the codex datasheet otherwise I guess he'd have the ability called "forceshield" either way.

yeah seems confusing as heck lol

Banshee mask yeah i guess it could be reasonable to assume it's the new one?? not sure there. bleh lol.

Either way if you can give him the banshee mask. Taking a biker saim-hann autarch with either saim-hann warlord trait or Swiftness, saim-hann lance, and a fusion pistol seems pretty awesome. The Saim-hann warlord trait lets you send him to go find and nuke enemy characters that might be key to an army, or the swiftness lets you get an extra 2inch's toward eating over watch for something like a shining spear squad with your awesome banshee mask.

Dionysodorus wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
One question we still ahve is what rules does the banshee mask for autarch use if you give it to the skyrunner autarch <.<

You use the Codex rules for Wargear, if they exist (even if the option to buy it comes from an Index entry). This is good news as the Codex Banshee mask is definitely better than the Index one for a lone wolf like the Biketarch.

yes that's true, but i don't see anywhere in the codex where the banshee's mask has rules of it's own that is not appart of some other models war scroll.

This is a little unclear in the general case but the Autarch is actually used as an example in the new Commentary and they outright say that the codex contains rules for all of the Autarch's wargear right after mentioning taking one with a Banshee Mask.

Here's a weird thing: the Commentary only says to use the index's "wargear options". Does this include the base wargear or no? If I want to take a foot Autarch with twin avenger catapults, does he also have a star glaive, plasma grenades, and a forceshield, or does he instead have a shuriken pistol and sunburst grenades? Presumably the latter, right? Since one of the wargear options is to exchange a shuriken pistol for a fusion pistol, and the whole point of this is not to make people's models illegal. But then if he doesn't have a star glaive and does have a shuriken pistol, does he have a forceshield? They just errata'd this for the codex version but not the index. Though since you're using the codex datasheet otherwise I guess he'd have the ability called "forceshield" either way.

The guide says use Index options for Wargear but rules from codex if such weapon has newer ones.

So Index Autarch come with stock power weapon and shuriken pistol, and can't get access to the Star glaive as example.

Lord Perversor wrote:

The guide says use Index options for Wargear but rules from codex if such weapon has newer ones.

So Index Autarch come with stock power weapon and shuriken pistol, and can't get access to the Star glaive as example.

To clarify: what makes this confusing is that many datasheets have a section which is literally called "wargear options". You're saying that in addition to using the "wargear options" from the index, we should also use the default wargear from the index, but the Commentary doesn't say this unless you take it as meaning "wargear options" as something other than the section which is named exactly that.

Lord Perversor wrote:

The guide says use Index options for Wargear but rules from codex if such weapon has newer ones.

So Index Autarch come with stock power weapon and shuriken pistol, and can't get access to the Star glaive as example.

No, it says to use the Index for wargear options. Star Glaive is not an option, it is a requirement and you can't get rid of it.

So I have been using Alaitoc on my Warp Spiders and have found that most of the time the enemy avoids it due to range.

Any other good choices for WS?

As much as I like the WildRider trait for vypers and heavy weapons....it seems silly that the slower Alaitoc vehicles in my army are harder to hit than the lithe vypers are.

Yeah, deep-striking infantry with 12" guns don't get a whole lot out of the Alatoic trait. They want to be Ulthwe instead.

oh the Autarch Skyrunner is a hth monster with the NovaLance.

I had an army made for IG and one for Nids. Neither of my pals were able to play so a marine player jumped in to play.
Then I forgot to bring my WJ Autarch so I just decided to use my nid force....He had a mostly mech list withsometimes 2 or even 3 FNP rolls.

I had so few anti tank weapons and he cleared most of my reapers off b4 I got a turn. We played 4 hours called it a draw and only had like 4 turns done. Great game....still up in the air and could have gone either way. First time my Fire Dragons did 3 rounds of shooting, never lost a model and still did not pay for themselves!!!

The Storm Guardian bomb worked great cept I had no targets except a dread. Still wounded it like 15 times but all those FNP rolls of Warlord and Iron Hands meant that was the worst unit for them to charge, but they had no other target.

The kicker was when I got the 'revenge' game card after my warlock warlord skyrunner died. I had so many 5+ rolls that were rending it became sick how my models were damaging stuff. Empower and other buffing to wound will be a thing this edition once we can figure stacking it out

If I need to throw in a couple points I wont take a viper but rather a warwalker.

As much as I like Dire Avengers MSUs I'm coming to realize they are a pretty bad tax. I have yet to wipe any unit out with them.

 admironheart wrote:
So I have been using Alaitoc on my Warp Spiders and have found that most of the time the enemy avoids it due to range.

Any other good choices for WS?

As much as I like the WildRider trait for vypers and heavy weapons....it seems silly that the slower Alaitoc vehicles in my army are harder to hit than the lithe vypers are.

I guess the question is what are the warp spiders being used for. For instances for one of my list the warp spides are for hero protection for a reserve heavy list. providing only air craft and warp spiders as primary targets before you get to the juice character center.

As for cypers i think i'd only bring them in a heavily mechanized force. Otherwise the vypers vulnerability to las cannons and the like becomes very distinct. However, in a mech heavy list you start taxing you opponent anti big stuff, and vypers aren't all that good of a target. Mainly due to the first las cannon shot feeling good but the second and third shots feel a bit like a waste when you compare to the work you can do against a larger vehicle. in my opinion scatter bikes are great or take a crimson hunter if your looking for bright lances over the vypers, who tend to be alittle to middling in all the catagories.

Army durability wise our top contenders are

Non-mech:
Warp Spiders (these guys are on top of the heap and if you don't upgrade the exarch they are some of the toughest models in the game in a a alaitoc detachment.)
Spectres
Rangers

Mechanized
Wave serpent (great takes that -1 damage really hamper most anti vehicle weapons)
Both the fliers (they are both about the same durability, but obviously the -1 to hit is nice stuff)



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 admironheart wrote:
oh the Autarch Skyrunner is a hth monster with the NovaLance.


As much as I like Dire Avengers MSUs I'm coming to realize they are a pretty bad tax. I have yet to wipe any unit out with them.

They are abit limiting with range. I prefer the rangers for thier ability just to live all game and sit on objectives. While providing the occational long range mortal wound.

Edit i also agree with the nova lance autarch that guy is nuts!!! Even more so now that you can give him a fusion gun as well.

Yeah, Spiders basically do what Rangers do, except in a linebreaker capacity. Don't expect them to do much damage. You use them for their bodies, not their guns.

I have to say, my favorite HQ is an Autarch Skyrunner w/ Lance, Reaper Launcher and Banshee mask.

The "Wild rider chieftain" Autarch was always my favorite, being my first ever Eldar HQ.
I really think this version is the best its ever been.

He is cheap enough to sit back and support backfield units with reroll 1s and plink shots with his Launcher. Yet he can also position himself to lead assaults if needed.
Really an all around good HQ. I love it.

So if your unit WAS not in a vehicle and shoots with the Fire and Fade stratagem can you embark into a vehicle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If So drop a nice unit in with WebWay Portal for 1 cp then fire and fade into a souped up Wave Serpent. That unit has a pretty good chance of getting to attack again next turn if you did your drops and terrain properly.

 admironheart wrote:
So I have been using Alaitoc on my Warp Spiders and have found that most of the time the enemy avoids it due to range.

Any other good choices for WS?

As much as I like the WildRider trait for vypers and heavy weapons....it seems silly that the slower Alaitoc vehicles in my army are harder to hit than the lithe vypers are.

I feel like Alaitoc Spiders can work, you just need to be liberal with using Fire and Fade to get back into cover beyond 12 inches. Use Flickerjump and suddenly now they're -2 to hit with a 2+ armor save.

I've been playing with the idea of Alaitoc Spiders as well and I feel like while they do a very solid job mulching infantry due to the amount of quality shots they can put out (definitely take a large squad size, they need the bodies and amount of shots to force armor saves), I think what they really want to do is to use their deep striking and fantastic mobility/durability to go around the map and shoot off enemy Troop units from objectives and take them. They get to play the objective game while your other units shoot the opponent off the board, play them smart and I think they have a lot of potential to cause a lot of disruption and force tough choices on your opponent.

mmimzie wrote:

They are abit limiting with range. I prefer the rangers for thier ability just to live all game and sit on objectives.

I ask this a lot when I see this, maybe you'll have the answer I understand.

But objectives? In all the games of 8th edition I've seen or participate in, there's only been one game where someone wasn't wiped out. And I'm not talking about 7 turn nailbiters where someone finally gets the last hold out. Turn 4 is about as far as things go. Heck, in my game today, it only went 2.

What are you doing differently where objectives matter in any way?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

They are abit limiting with range. I prefer the rangers for thier ability just to live all game and sit on objectives.

I ask this a lot when I see this, maybe you'll have the answer I understand.

But objectives? In all the games of 8th edition I've seen or participate in, there's only been one game where someone wasn't wiped out. And I'm not talking about 7 turn nailbiters where someone finally gets the last hold out. Turn 4 is about as far as things go. Heck, in my game today, it only went 2.

What are you doing differently where objectives matter in any way?

i definitly agree with you. Though alot of the tournament list are gears toward survival rather than anihilation right now. Brimstones/Concripts are signs of just trying to be hardy. Even the poxwalkers work toward this goal. So more games than normal i feel in tournament play get down to surivival.


In this same vein i pretty specifically said 2 things in a very specific order "Live all game and sit on objectives" ranger in this way are kind of our concripts. Using the rangers to scout allows your army to become more durable in a few ways. For one the natural -1 to hit is rather nice, but on top of that the deep strike denial is pretty big. Through this objectives can become revelent where we try to give eldar the same sort of staying power the chaos and AM have.

 admironheart wrote:
So if your unit WAS not in a vehicle and shoots with the Fire and Fade stratagem can you embark into a vehicle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If So drop a nice unit in with WebWay Portal for 1 cp then fire and fade into a souped up Wave Serpent. That unit has a pretty good chance of getting to attack again next turn if you did your drops and terrain properly.

I think this is a legitimate strategy

cool thanks....I think I may save a lot of CPs if I go that way and just take more Wave Serpents.

Question: my last game took forever since I had a Guardian army. My playstyle was always a lot of grunts from 2nd ed on. My 3rd ed elder would run 60+ models and my Imperial PDF had 104.

In Chess I traded Queen for Queen, trade my Bishop for your Knight and then tie up the rooks....Now I have a good use of my pawns can hit every square with my Knight and your bishop can only affect half the squares....putting me in significant advantage especially if the big piece Queen is your primary weapon. I play 40K with the same tactical mindsets.

So with all the dice and all the rerolls to hit and to wound it takes forever to play a game and you will never finish a round in a tournament to completion.

So what should I do to fill my need for horde style play and still have a fast game? Is there a compromise?

 admironheart wrote:
cool thanks....I think I may save a lot of CPs if I go that way and just take more Wave Serpents.

Question: my last game took forever since I had a Guardian army. My playstyle was always a lot of grunts from 2nd ed on. My 3rd ed elder would run 60+ models and my Imperial PDF had 104.

In Chess I traded Queen for Queen, trade my Bishop for your Knight and then tie up the rooks....Now I have a good use of my pawns can hit every square with my Knight and your bishop can only affect half the squares....putting me in significant advantage especially if the big piece Queen is your primary weapon. I play 40K with the same tactical mindsets.

So with all the dice and all the rerolls to hit and to wound it takes forever to play a game and you will never finish a round in a tournament to completion.

So what should I do to fill my need for horde style play and still have a fast game? Is there a compromise?

Honestly an all asp3ct warrior force would be some what on the horde side. Ev2n more so if you stick to infantry.

 admironheart wrote:
cool thanks....I think I may save a lot of CPs if I go that way and just take more Wave Serpents.

Question: my last game took forever since I had a Guardian army. My playstyle was always a lot of grunts from 2nd ed on. My 3rd ed elder would run 60+ models and my Imperial PDF had 104.

In Chess I traded Queen for Queen, trade my Bishop for your Knight and then tie up the rooks....Now I have a good use of my pawns can hit every square with my Knight and your bishop can only affect half the squares....putting me in significant advantage especially if the big piece Queen is your primary weapon. I play 40K with the same tactical mindsets.

So with all the dice and all the rerolls to hit and to wound it takes forever to play a game and you will never finish a round in a tournament to completion.

So what should I do to fill my need for horde style play and still have a fast game? Is there a compromise?

Not trying to be snide, but develop ways to play faster. There are a lot of ways to shave time from your turn.

Batching dice together.
Rolling your oponent`s dice for saving throws.
Use the cards, especially for stratefems.
Keep models on something so you can take the entire unit over to place from the Webway.
Notes on a single page for unit and weapon stats.
Play the same list multiple times prior to tourneys to understand your army better and will require less game decision making.
Movement trays.


Just some ideas. Play the style you like as that is how you enjoy the army. I have played Guardian themed armies since 3rd edition and these are all items that help me. 7th Edition was the most challenging edition to finish tourney games, but it was doable.

Do people generally have good experiences with Shadow Spectres? I'm looking for a unit to deepstrike, then zip around delivering knockout blows to enemy infantry, like 7th Ed Warpspiders used to be. At the moment I'm trying to find a reason not to order a bunch of them (aside from the fact my bank balance is poor).

On paper they look fantastic. Mobile, tough, especially with Alaitoc, and killy vs everything short of big vehicles. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits. I usually bring plenty of anti-tank so thats not a problem. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits, or just use the heavy flamers for some mass carnage.

Their points cost isn't that cheap considering they are still T3 1W models, but considering how they synergize so well with the various psychic powers, stratagems etc...

Spartacus wrote:
Do people generally have good experiences with Shadow Spectres? I'm looking for a unit to deepstrike, then zip around delivering knockout blows to enemy infantry, like 7th Ed Warpspiders used to be. At the moment I'm trying to find a reason not to order a bunch of them (aside from the fact my bank balance is poor).

On paper they look fantastic. Mobile, tough, especially with Alaitoc, and killy vs everything short of big vehicles. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits. I usually bring plenty of anti-tank so thats not a problem. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits, or just use the heavy flamers for some mass carnage.

Their points cost isn't that cheap considering they are still T3 1W models, but considering how they synergize so well with the various psychic powers, stratagems etc...

I thought the general consensus among folks was they are a go-to Alaitoc unit, if you are in a FW friendly environment. They are fragile, but the -2 to-hit, mobility and firepower seem to make up for it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


I thought the general consensus among folks was they are a go-to Alaitoc unit, if you are in a FW friendly environment. They are fragile, but the -2 to-hit, mobility and firepower seem to make up for it.

I recall some discussion in this thread just after the codex was released, basically echoed by my post. Now that we've had it for a few weeks to make use of them I wondered if peoples opinions/experiences had changed, anecdotes, tips n' tricks etc.

Help me justify spending all this $$$ to myself

Edit: Also whats the verdict on the exarch? +5 points for an extra wound essentially? The gun options both look inferior to the stock one and I assume with Alaitoc you don't often wanna be close enough to make use of the morale check thing.

Spartacus wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


I thought the general consensus among folks was they are a go-to Alaitoc unit, if you are in a FW friendly environment. They are fragile, but the -2 to-hit, mobility and firepower seem to make up for it.

I recall some discussion in this thread just after the codex was released, basically echoed by my post. Now that we've had it for a few weeks to make use of them I wondered if peoples opinions/experiences had changed, anecdotes, tips n' tricks etc.

Help me justify spending all this $$$ to myself

They're a go to unit for me. I rarely play a game without between 8-10. They just answer a lot of problems - they're tremendously effective answers to any of the T6 vehicles and really into the T7+ range if that target is doomed. They also really enjoy guide with the crazy extra hit generation it nets them. And to top that all off the fact that they are each equipped with essentially a heavy flamer means they do very well keeping the lines clear and aren't terribly afraid of most charges. When I'm building a list they're on the first units I add and with the advent of the webway stratagem it makes it even easier to protect them from first turn shooting while inserting them in the best possible position.

So how does Mind War and Tau Savior protocols interact? Does mind war allow you to snipe Tau Commanders since damage is not allocated?

 Farseer_V2 wrote:


They're a go to unit for me. I rarely play a game without between 8-10. They just answer a lot of problems - they're tremendously effective answers to any of the T6 vehicles and really into the T7+ range if that target is doomed. They also really enjoy guide with the crazy extra hit generation it nets them. And to top that all off the fact that they are each equipped with essentially a heavy flamer means they do very well keeping the lines clear and aren't terribly afraid of most charges. When I'm building a list they're on the first units I add and with the advent of the webway stratagem it makes it even easier to protect them from first turn shooting while inserting them in the best possible position.

Cheers for that! The other thing I noticed while reading about them today is that they are Jet Pack infantry. Wave Serpents are unable to transport Jump Pack Infantry but it says nothing about jet packs. This could be another alternative way to keep them safe if for example you use the cloudstrike stratagem (like I often do).

Taking a look at the Exarch again, the Haywire gun might actually be ok with its longer range and ability to strip the odd few wounds off vehicles. Maybe for a larger unit where just another Prism rifle would probably end up as overkill??

Spectres are almost mandatory for a competitive eldar list. They are our best anti horde option and their Str 6 is great too. Very difficult unit to deal with. Alaitoc is definitely great for them but they are fine without. Dropping them out of webway is fine but they don’t really need it.