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Yeah at the price Warlocks are, there is no doubt that I'd rather run a Skyrunner version of them with the increased movement and the increased toughness and wounds.

Skyrunner warlocks and Farseers are now the way to go lmao!!!

Spirit seers are kind of eh now unless you want a 3rd warlock???

Shining spears are king now??? Dark reapers weren't hit all that hard still pretty decent??? Maybe 2pts more per model increase than i would have gone with???

Honestly these are about where the changes should be. Lots of the stuff in our army that's strong is off the back of warlocks and farseers?? So they've been tamed by limited number you can take and by the relatively small points hike. It's certainly a choice between taking the bike or not, as that gun requires you to be 12" away to use which is a risky place to sit.

Not that surprised they didn't nerf more. Although Shining Spears are good they are still not at the same level as pre-faq Reapers. Also, Word of the Phoenix got nerfed so there is a change to a force multiplier.

However, I am surprised by the Warlock/Spiritseer changes. Never felt like they were the carriers of the army.

I also don't find the nerf too bad on Dark Reapers. We'll see how it plays in the field though.

I think the idea of a ynnari patrol still sounds good. Yvraine, guardian blob, 10 reapers (even with the increase) and max spears.

Even with the change to WotP, you only need to roll a 7 with yvraine, and you still have all the best soul burst abusers we had pre FAQ

The Reaper spike is nothing. Let's be friggin serious here, eldar drops 70 points yet now you can't deepstrike to alaitoc 1st turn so he has all the time to shoot and cast the spells.

You can't DS Spears 1st turn or move them after DS due to changes in warptime and similar stuff again, but you can safely sit behind terrain, prebuff and then roll out and you're king.

I mean, basically my lists change in that I drop like, 2 reapers. That's nothing.

Yvraine is now even better because she is even more cost effective since Reapers are more expensive.

Warlocks are wtf. It just means supah smart synergies like drain enervate horrify lololo will never see the light, you want quicken maybe & Smite. Spiritseers are better at Smite so GW wants you to buy that new spiritseer.

I mean, it may be cheaper now to spam Autarches for HQ roles than Warlocks (tears emoji)

Eldrad now looks very tasty compared to foot Farseer.

Everything else including serpents or hemlocks or spears is untouched. Yet while Eldar work through synergies of different units and have no need for spam, you can't spam against them and can't DS turn 1 against them.

I think Alaitoc might be in even better position now.

 Shadenuat wrote:
The Reaper spike is nothing. Let's be friggin serious here, eldar drops 70 points yet now you can't deepstrike to alaitoc 1st turn so he has all the time to shoot and cast the spells.

You can't DS Spears 1st turn or move them after DS due to changes in warptime and similar stuff again, but you can safely sit behind terrain, prebuff and then roll out and you're king.

I mean, basically my lists change in that I drop like, 2 reapers. That's nothing.

Yvraine is now even better because she is even more cost effective since Reapers are more expensive.

Warlocks are wtf. It just means supah smart synergies like drain enervate horrify lololo will never see the light, you want quicken maybe & Smite. Spiritseers are better at Smite so GW wants you to buy that new spiritseer.

I mean, it may be cheaper now to spam Autarches for HQ roles than Warlocks (tears emoji)

Eldrad now looks very tasty compared to foot Farseer.

Everything else including serpents or hemlocks or spears is untouched. Yet while Eldar work through synergies of different units and have no need for spam, you can't spam against them and can't DS turn 1 against them.

I think Alaitoc might be in even better position now.

yeah i can agree with alot of this. More over spear starting on the table are pretty durable more so when they throw on lightning fast refexs. And with the lowering of some screens due to nerfs to deep strikes means you can sling those shining spears down your opponents throat all the easier.

To add - 3x5 DA s, 3x5 Rangers = 13 CP. Gotta keep those Lightning Fast Reaction cards coming for Spears.

More like 2x5 DA, 1x20 Guardians, and 3x5 Rangers but yea.

So, two Craftworld Battalions and an Ynnari Patrol?

If you can afford all the HQs.

Maybe Alaitoc Battalion + Ynnari Battalion would be more reasonable.

Something I just realized: You can't fire and fade units that came from reserves anymore.
And you can't embark in a transport after fire and fade.

 Shadenuat wrote:
If you can afford all the HQs.

Maybe Alaitoc Battalion + Ynnari Battalion would be more reasonable.

It is a bit tight. I would like a squad of Hawks.

Alaitoc BN Farseer, Warlock, 3x5 Rangers
Biel Tan BN Asurman, Warlock, 2x5 Avengers, 1x10 Avengers, 1x10 Banshees
Ynnari (fast attack detachment with Saim Hann Craftworld). Yvraine, 1x20 Guardians, 1x8 Spears, 1x5 Reapers, 2x3 Windriders with Cannons.

I'm most upset about not being able to deep strike my 20-man guardian blobs on turn 1, it's like radically changing the way I think about our troops choices, I'm not really sure which direction to go. Rangers are good and well, but you have to account for all the lost anti-infantry dakka from the guardians, and I don't want to spam more shining spears, the one squad of 9 I run is enough for me. Maybe Asurmen plus DA blob foot slogging?

 peteralmo wrote:
I'm most upset about not being able to deep strike my 20-man guardian blobs on turn 1, it's like radically changing the way I think about our troops choices, I'm not really sure which direction to go. Rangers are good and well, but you have to account for all the lost anti-infantry dakka from the guardians, and I don't want to spam more shining spears, the one squad of 9 I run is enough for me. Maybe Asurmen plus DA blob foot slogging?

I'm looking at that as well. The 4++ for DA with Asurmen helps to weather firepower if I don't have first turn. I found that I can at least have some additional durability. I dropped one of my two Guardian blobs with the rule change, although I can still see the purpose of having the second one foot slogging and use Celestial Shield to help mitigate turn 1 shooting.

Might just go with 10man guardian squads in serpents and still keep a 20 strong in reserve for turn 2. I found myself withholding the guardians on turn 1 most of the time anyways.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Might just go with 10man guardian squads in serpents and still keep a 20 strong in reserve for turn 2. I found myself withholding the guardians on turn 1 most of the time anyways.

That's actually exactly what I did!

FACTION: Ulthwe CWE

+Air Wing Detachment+
2x Crimson Hunter Exarchs w/ twin brightlance
1x Hemlock Wraithfighter

+Battalion 1+
++HQ++
Warlord: Autarch with Swooping Hawk Wings w/ Banshee Mask, Shimmerplume Relic, Fusion Pistol
Elrad w/Doom, Executioner, Will of Asuryan
Farseer Skyrunner w/Singing Spear, Guide, Fortune

++Troops++
11x Guardian Defenders w/Shuricannon Platform
6x Rangers
5x Rangers

++Transport++
2x Wave Serpent w/Star Engines, Vectored Engines, Shuricannon

+Battalion 2+
++HQ++
1x Warlock Skyrunner w/Singing Spear, Protect/Jinx
1x Warlock Skyrunner w/Singing Spear, Conceal/Reveal

++Troops++
20x Guardian Defenders w/2x Shuricannon Platforms
11x Guardian Defenders w/Shuricannon Platform
5x Rangers

It seems the shift in points with the newest FAQ is pushing everyone to bring more wave serpents and more skyrunners/jetbikes. Footdar with jetbikes also seems fairly viable with the increase in command points from a battalion or a brigade.

 peteralmo wrote:
I'm most upset about not being able to deep strike my 20-man guardian blobs on turn 1, it's like radically changing the way I think about our troops choices, I'm not really sure which direction to go. Rangers are good and well, but you have to account for all the lost anti-infantry dakka from the guardians, and I don't want to spam more shining spears, the one squad of 9 I run is enough for me. Maybe Asurmen plus DA blob foot slogging?

As you said more shining spear exist.

Howling banshee with a wave serpent work well too with quicken they can skate accross the table turn one, and after math and a few warlocks buffs each banshee can kill almost 3 guardsmen. So that's 30 models down.

I'd say it cost alot with all the support, but if you already have shining spear you probably already have warlocks to buff them. Giving all your warlocks and farseers bikes is also pretty cost effective. Basicly each bile is like 2 guardians, but with Lots of move.

Maaaaaaybe a 10 man dire avenger unit with guide could do okay.


That said there is definitly a choice to be mad between guardians and DA now. DA can do stuff turn one, while guardians have to wait till turn 2 to play. That said one wind rider cost about as much as 1 DA with same damage out put and more durable. Though they need to get alittle closer to get shots off.

mmimzie wrote:

Howling banshee with a wave serpent work well too with quicken they can skate accross the table turn one, and after math and a few warlocks buffs each banshee can kill almost 3 guardsmen. So that's 30 models down.

No they can't.

Even if you somehow managed to Quicken, Empower, and Embolden (which is already basically impossible and more than doubles the cost of the Banshees) they only kill 11 guardsmen. You can even throw 3 more in with pistols, but that's still 16 short of your 30.

A banshee can never kill 3 guardsman; they only have 2 attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
That said one wind rider cost about as much as 1 DA with same damage out put and more durable.

23 is not about as much as 12.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

Howling banshee with a wave serpent work well too with quicken they can skate accross the table turn one, and after math and a few warlocks buffs each banshee can kill almost 3 guardsmen. So that's 30 models down.

No they can't.

Even if you somehow managed to Quicken, Empower, and Embolden (which is already basically impossible and more than doubles the cost of the Banshees) they only kill 11 guardsmen. You can even throw 3 more in with pistols, but that's still 16 short of your 30.

A banshee can never kill 3 guardsman; they only have 2 attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
That said one wind rider cost about as much as 1 DA with same damage out put and more durable.

23 is not about as much as 12.

Sorry miss spoke abit here was working off members from long ago when the book was fresh.

It's 2 DAs is about 1 wind rider with same damage out put which makes since because 2 catapult ~= twin catapult etc etc.

On the howling banshees it's actualy 21.66 dead guardmen with the 21 attacks the 10 howlings get + pistols and exarch. + enhance+ Embolden + supreme disdain + near by autarch also killing some stuff. Still not quite 3 each, but it's definitly up there. this is about 7 more wounds than a normal banshee squad would put out against guardmen with out buffs.

Plus you are right the warlocks are more than the cost of the banshee's themselves that said you can't quicken 2 squads of banshees into combat turn 1. It'd be more expensive becuase if i was taking the warlocks i'd take them on bikes because for 20pts you get 2 more shurikcan catapults. I'd probably also take quicken on a spirit seer that's biel-tan with the reroll spells relic so it's more reliable.

i mentioned the banshees also in the context of a list already with shining spears in which you already have atleast 1 or 2 warlocks any way to buff the spear, but if you wanted that list to also have a good buff target for anti horde you could take banshees. So you could buff the shining spears up against none horde armies as the +1 to hit and to wound would be pretty good on the spear against most stuff, but against hordes the banshees are alittle more effencient with the buffs. Only a tiny bit though. *shrug*.

mmimzie wrote:

On the howling banshees it's actualy 21.66 dead guardmen with the 21 attacks the 10 howlings get + pistols and exarch. + enhance+ Embolden + supreme disdain + near by autarch also killing some stuff. Still not quite 3 each, but it's definitly up there. this is about 7 more wounds than a normal banshee squad would put out against guardmen with out buffs.

Plus you are right the warlocks are more than the cost of the banshee's themselves that said you can't quicken 2 squads of banshees into combat turn 1. It'd be more expensive becuase if i was taking the warlocks i'd take them on bikes because for 20pts you get 2 more shurikcan catapults. I'd probably also take quicken on a spirit seer that's biel-tan with the reroll spells relic so it's more reliable.

So your plan to kill 120 points worth of Guardsman involves 500 points worth of Eldar units relying entirely on randomness?

This is why I'm giving up on Craftworlds. People think that garbage is actually good.

 DarknessEternal wrote:


This is why I'm giving up on Craftworlds. People think that garbage is actually good.

So wait...I'm not sure I understand.

Other people making less than optimal builds is making you quit the army?

Not sure how that works, but hey, have fun with the next army you pick.

I want to see what a first turn looks like when no deep strike nids, etc don't hit the elder line.

Now I'm more than ever thinking a gunline with Walkers and WS with Footdar may be better than b4.

Other than spears....what mobile force could work best with an elder gunline.....? Hawks, a Mech list, Warp spiders?

 Mmmpi wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:


This is why I'm giving up on Craftworlds. People think that garbage is actually good.

So wait...I'm not sure I understand.

Other people making less than optimal builds is making you quit the army?

Not sure how that works, but hey, have fun with the next army you pick.

Lol don't tease him. He's a salty one. He's always mad. Just <.< look at any of his thread history. It's hilarious.

That's fair. I don't always recognize the ones with the "Eternal Salty" special rule.

 admironheart wrote:
I want to see what a first turn looks like when no deep strike nids, etc don't hit the elder line.

Now I'm more than ever thinking a gunline with Walkers and WS with Footdar may be better than b4.

Other than spears....what mobile force could work best with an elder gunline.....? Hawks, a Mech list, Warp spiders?

Did you really have a gunline with eldar? I've honestly never seen one. In fact, I've almost always left my DZ by turn 2. Between the short range or shuriken weapons and the fact that eldar aren't punished for advancing means that I've never seen a static eldar army, and no gunlines. But wave serpent+guardian spam is looking good, we'll see how the meta shakes up.

Plus, you still can run 3x5 reapers and spears, meaning that no matter what, eldar have a pretty good core. (I just wish wraithconstructs will be good enough to take one day!)

@Quentra

Well Distortion Cannons are best stationary behind LOS terrain.
War Walkers perform much better if they don't move. Same with WraithLords with 48" EML
Even WS hanging back making your own LOS terrain is a good wall for FarSeers and Warlock Conclaves to hide behind while they soak up fire and shoot.
ofc you can take your CH and have them patrol the back edge taking pot shots
And Prism Cannons love the corners and other LOS advantages.
So a lot of elder units and their use don't involve lets throw our guys out and get in their face....or the tactical sweep around the flank and fight the enemy piecemeal on our terms.

 admironheart wrote:
@Quentra

Well Distortion Cannons are best stationary behind LOS terrain.
War Walkers perform much better if they don't move. Same with WraithLords with 48" EML
Even WS hanging back making your own LOS terrain is a good wall for FarSeers and Warlock Conclaves to hide behind while they soak up fire and shoot.
ofc you can take your CH and have them patrol the back edge taking pot shots
And Prism Cannons love the corners and other LOS advantages.
So a lot of elder units and their use don't involve lets throw our guys out and get in their face....or the tactical sweep around the flank and fight the enemy piecemeal on our terms.

Can there be an effective eldar gunline? Triple d-cannon support platforms and war walker/wraithlords with EML could do some work...Be fun to test it lol.

Now that we can't Webaway Strike and Quicken a unit of D-scythe Wraithguard into range, how are we supposed to play them?
Only transported by Wave Serpents?

I play a grav-tank-less unit (I hate Wave Serpents) and now my unit is useless unless I buy them a ride. Thanks GW, that's what the game needed. More Wave Serpents ¬¬

 DanielFM wrote:
Now that we can't Webaway Strike and Quicken a unit of D-scythe Wraithguard into range, how are we supposed to play them?
Only transported by Wave Serpents?

I play a grav-tank-less unit (I hate Wave Serpents) and now my unit is useless unless I buy them a ride. Thanks GW, that's what the game needed. More Wave Serpents ¬¬

Only option is the Wave Serpent, or running up the table.

Alternatively, you could swap to Wraithcannons and still webway strike them.