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How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

 JimOnMars wrote:
How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

Assuming no negative hit modifiers, it takes 705 shots from Ork small arms to kill Magnus after he buffs his invulnerable save. Assuming you're using Shoota Boyz, you're looking at around 4230 points. If you receive a -1, then double the amount.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 RedCommander wrote:
Oh?

Can I have a native Invulnerable save for my super heavy tank? No? Well, that was rhetorical question. I don't need that.

Yes, you can! You have to play Eldar and move at least an inch with a vehicle that doesn't ignore the move-and-fire penalty, though, so you can't have it top of turn one and it does detract from your firepower.

You could also be a Mastodon or a Gorgon and just have one.

Heh, like I said, I don't need it. I accept that you can't have everything. I'll gladly sacrifice Invulnerable saves for pure destructive power.

Though I couldn't help but notice that every other Lord of War has 5++ or higher. Heck, most of the things I fight have Invulnerable saves, even the troopers.

He also needs quantum shielding and FnP 2+.

And reroll on 1's for the FnP.

Cuz he'll die if he doesn't get first turn.

Also needs -10 Ld aura.

Oh. And psychic abomination so he can't be smited.

Also Armour of Fate and self-healing 18d6 per turn.

And a rule that he cannot be shot at the first turn.

If he is your warlord, you can force your opponent to re-roll seizes.

Scratch all that. Just give him 1+/1++ unmodifiable saves and call it a day. Reduce his points to 55 pt while you're at it.

But in all seriousness, to make him more durable, all he really needs is a deepstrike. Or he could like below:

WS/BS2+ S10 T32 W24 Ld10 2+/2++ Saves

Reroll 1's on hit, wound and saves
2+ FnP
Quantum shield

Anything shy of warlord battle titan needs to roll a 6 to wound. Any damage higher than 1 needz to be rolled off, mortal wounds saveable with FnP.

Or just give him a deep strike with his giant wings so hecan enter the battle 9" away ALWAYS on your turn so the enemy cant catch him with his pants down.

 Fafnir wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

Assuming no negative hit modifiers, it takes 705 shots from Ork small arms to kill Magnus after he buffs his invulnerable save. Assuming you're using Shoota Boyz, you're looking at around 4230 points. If you receive a -1, then double the amount.

I am not sure of your numbers...but you will never get enough boyz in range anyway. For something like lootas, they might get lucky and do 1wound per unit of 15 or so...i will mathhammer it later.

Magnus’s main weakness is mortal wounds, which eat right through all his defenses. Unfortunately the main source of these is psyker powers, which he is uniquely able to deal with better than anyone else in the game. So non-psychic mortal wound spam. Ironically chaos probably has the best chance with Decimators armed with dual soulburner petards. 4d3 mortal wounds with buffs to reroll hits will put the fear of god into him.

From what I've seen, I wish half the stuff in 8th was even 3/4 as durable as Magnus.

 Badablack wrote:
Magnus’s main weakness is mortal wounds, which eat right through all his defenses. Unfortunately the main source of these is psyker powers, which he is uniquely able to deal with better than anyone else in the game. So non-psychic mortal wound spam. Ironically chaos probably has the best chance with Decimators armed with dual soulburner petards. 4d3 mortal wounds with buffs to reroll hits will put the fear of god into him.

The best non-psychic source of mortal wounds is AdMech, actually. Wrath of Mars has a pretty good shot of just outright 1-shotting Magnus.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

Assuming no negative hit modifiers, it takes 705 shots from Ork small arms to kill Magnus after he buffs his invulnerable save. Assuming you're using Shoota Boyz, you're looking at around 4230 points. If you receive a -1, then double the amount.

I am not sure of your numbers...but you will never get enough boyz in range anyway. For something like lootas, they might get lucky and do 1wound per unit of 15 or so...i will mathhammer it later.

1/2 a wound per 255 points of lootas.

To kill him in 3 turns would take 3,060 points of lootas, or 9,180 points of them in 1 turn.

The level of sarcasm in this thread makes it hard to respond.

The OP complains about a fairly common scenario, which is Magnus getting shot off the board first / second turn. Yes, he has great saves, but when your opponent goes first / throws multiwound weapons at him, he breaks down. Add to this the fact he's lacks the offense he had in 7th edition, and Magnus stops being an auto-include unit.

This is not a problem specific to Magnus. There are plenty of units that concentrate a lot of value, including vehicles, elite infantry, firing platforms, etc. They cost a lot of points. When they go down, your army is at a disadvantage because you paid for that unit instead of other ones. There's less of everything else.

So... a few thoughts:

1) This is a listbuilding problem. Have a plan B for when he goes down. In fact, Magnus should be the plan B, everything else in the list should have a reason to be there. Don't count on everything going right when 25% of the cost of your army is bundled into a single unit.

2) Realize what other posters said is true. Barring a series of lucky shots, the opponent is going to have to throw a ton of firepower at Magnus to kill him. When your opponent is shooting at Magnus, the rest of the army needs to be able to pick apart the opponent's. Pick units that kill the things with lascannons.

3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

He can be really good with the 3++ rerolling 1s and I have seen games where the owning player never rolled a 2... but for the sake of overall game balance it’s good to know there are some army builds that can give him some problems.

 techsoldaten wrote:
The level of sarcasm in this thread makes it hard to respond.

The OP complains about a fairly common scenario, which is Magnus getting shot off the board first / second turn. Yes, he has great saves, but when your opponent goes first / throws multiwound weapons at him, he breaks down. Add to this the fact he's lacks the offense he had in 7th edition, and Magnus stops being an auto-include unit.

This is not a problem specific to Magnus. There are plenty of units that concentrate a lot of value, including vehicles, elite infantry, firing platforms, etc. They cost a lot of points. When they go down, your army is at a disadvantage because you paid for that unit instead of other ones. There's less of everything else.

So... a few thoughts:

1) This is a listbuilding problem. Have a plan B for when he goes down. In fact, Magnus should be the plan B, everything else in the list should have a reason to be there. Don't count on everything going right when 25% of the cost of your army is bundled into a single unit.

2) Realize what other posters said is true. Barring a series of lucky shots, the opponent is going to have to throw a ton of firepower at Magnus to kill him. When your opponent is shooting at Magnus, the rest of the army needs to be able to pick apart the opponent's. Pick units that kill the things with lascannons.

3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Finally, a thought out reply, fantastic. Since 1K sons is a rather expensive army, what would be some hard hitter worth bringing? Deep striking terminators seem crazy but at the same time, very expensive. Currently have magnus, ahriman, 3 sorcs. and 20 rubrics.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

Assuming no negative hit modifiers, it takes 705 shots from Ork small arms to kill Magnus after he buffs his invulnerable save. Assuming you're using Shoota Boyz, you're looking at around 4230 points. If you receive a -1, then double the amount.

I am not sure of your numbers...but you will never get enough boyz in range anyway. For something like lootas, they might get lucky and do 1wound per unit of 15 or so...i will mathhammer it later.

1/2 a wound per 255 points of lootas.

To kill him in 3 turns would take 3,060 points of lootas, or 9,180 points of them in 1 turn.

Really Guys.. if you are shooting Magnus with Orks you are doing it wrong.

Weirdboys are the way to kill Magnus.Best psykers in the game right now.

Put 60 boys around a group of weird boys and not even Tzeentch can handle that kind of power... Smiting with a plus 6 to cast.. even the new Tyranid strat is still keeping the nid players scared of Ork psychic phase
How many people can stop you when you are roll 13s on average? (7 +6 for the 60 boys nearby)

Course I have seen Magnus stay an entire game keeping almost 2k points of eldar and imperials tied up. And watched a game wiht orks where he basically 1vs orks wiht 1600 points of meatshields to keep the weirdboys from smiting him down until he could deal with them.And also see games where he died really fast to orks and imperials (seperate game) because smite and Gman hulking out and showing his bro who is the big primarch

 techsoldaten wrote:
3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Ehhh... to Thousand Sons in general sure, but I wouldn't be so sure Magnus is going to get buffed by the codex. The biggest question mark is if we're going to keep the CSM psychic list or get a new, Thousand Sons-specific one. If the former, nothing changes for Magnus, if the latter he loses warptime, which is the main reason he can be as immediately threatening on the board as he is. Losing it would be a huge nerf to him (except of course in fething soup lists which is really the only place he's problematic right now).

Of course my preference would be for Thousand Sons to keep the CSM list and ALSO get an additional list to match the number of psychic powers Craftworld Eldar can cast (maybe a KSons specific list, maybe the Tzeentch Daemons list) but that's just wishlisting.

I had a magnus get turn 1 while my daemon princes and sorcerers chilled at the back waiting to try get the charge on him but in my psychic phase i smote a wound off him he denied 3 other powers and then i got death hex on him and a single squad of lascannons blasted him. he did basically 5 wounds to cultists with his smite.

Ive played him 3 times and hes done nothing all 3 games, i can see how he might be scary but I've either been lucky or he is heavily over rated im more afraid of rowboat because if its needed magnus can die in 1 turn, unless you have 50 vindicare assasins girlyman isnt dying turn 1

Glinch wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
How many points of orks (many shooting at bs7+) should it take to kill him? 4,000? 5,000?

Assuming no negative hit modifiers, it takes 705 shots from Ork small arms to kill Magnus after he buffs his invulnerable save. Assuming you're using Shoota Boyz, you're looking at around 4230 points. If you receive a -1, then double the amount.

I am not sure of your numbers...but you will never get enough boyz in range anyway. For something like lootas, they might get lucky and do 1wound per unit of 15 or so...i will mathhammer it later.

1/2 a wound per 255 points of lootas.

To kill him in 3 turns would take 3,060 points of lootas, or 9,180 points of them in 1 turn.

Really Guys.. if you are shooting Magnus with Orks you are doing it wrong.

Weirdboys are the way to kill Magnus.Best psykers in the game right now.

Put 60 boys around a group of weird boys and not even Tzeentch can handle that kind of power... Smiting with a plus 6 to cast.. even the new Tyranid strat is still keeping the nid players scared of Ork psychic phase
How many people can stop you when you are roll 13s on average? (7 +6 for the 60 boys nearby)

Course I have seen Magnus stay an entire game keeping almost 2k points of eldar and imperials tied up. And watched a game wiht orks where he basically 1vs orks wiht 1600 points of meatshields to keep the weirdboys from smiting him down until he could deal with them.And also see games where he died really fast to orks and imperials (seperate game) because smite and Gman hulking out and showing his bro who is the big primarch

Except in turn two the first smiting weirdboy will explode and kill all the others. If you're lucky, the second one will.

You did know that orks get automatic perils for rolls of 12+, right?

Do you also know that you can simply prevent smite from hitting Magnus by placing something slightly closer to the weird boyz than him, like a rhino?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Ehhh... to Thousand Sons in general sure, but I wouldn't be so sure Magnus is going to get buffed by the codex. The biggest question mark is if we're going to keep the CSM psychic list or get a new, Thousand Sons-specific one. If the former, nothing changes for Magnus, if the latter he loses warptime, which is the main reason he can be as immediately threatening on the board as he is. Losing it would be a huge nerf to him (except of course in fething soup lists which is really the only place he's problematic right now).

Of course my preference would be for Thousand Sons to keep the CSM list and ALSO get an additional list to match the number of psychic powers Craftworld Eldar can cast (maybe a KSons specific list, maybe the Tzeentch Daemons list) but that's just wishlisting.

In the case of Eldar, their best psychic discipline is locked to their worst psykers, and vice-versa.

Maybe I am being obtuse, but what the heck gives him +1 to his invulnerable saves in the first place.

Jidmah wrote:
Except in turn two the first smiting weirdboy will explode and kill all the others. If you're lucky, the second one will.

You did know that orks get automatic perils for rolls of 12+, right?

Do you also know that you can simply prevent smite from hitting Magnus by placing something slightly closer to the weird boyz than him, like a rhino?

Yeah. I knew that. That's why my I talked about a game with Magnus having 1600 points of meatshields to stop the smite spam. Literally, the whole game was Magnus killing things while his whole army died stopping the smites from hitting him.

And it's really quite easy to put your weird boys in a way that they explode and don't take out all the others in one go. It's only 3" range on the "explosion".And don't have to have 6 guys nearby could just have 30 around them. that +3 is still really good.
ts

andrewm9 wrote:Maybe I am being obtuse, but what the heck gives him +1 to his invulnerable saves in the first place.

There is a spell in Chaos Marines that Improves your Invuln save by 1. Magnus casts this on himself and the shenanigans start.

Glinch wrote:

Put 60 boys around a group of weird boys and not even Tzeentch can handle that kind of power... Smiting with a plus 6 to cast.. even the new Tyranid strat is still keeping the nid players scared of Ork psychic phase
How many people can stop you when you are roll 13s on average? (7 +6 for the 60 boys nearby)

Stupid idea. Weirdboys suffer perils of the warp on 12+, in addition to double 1s and double 6s. The weirdboys would die in 2 turns.

 andrewm9 wrote:
Maybe I am being obtuse, but what the heck gives him +1 to his invulnerable saves in the first place.

You might be thinking of magnus re-rolling 1s on his save. If not then idk either.

Glinch wrote:

Jidmah wrote:
Except in turn two the first smiting weirdboy will explode and kill all the others. If you're lucky, the second one will.

You did know that orks get automatic perils for rolls of 12+, right?

Do you also know that you can simply prevent smite from hitting Magnus by placing something slightly closer to the weird boyz than him, like a rhino?

Yeah. I knew that. That's why my I talked about a game with Magnus having 1600 points of meatshields to stop the smite spam. Literally, the whole game was Magnus killing things while his whole army died stopping the smites from hitting him.

And it's really quite easy to put your weird boys in a way that they explode and don't take out all the others in one go. It's only 3" range on the "explosion".And don't have to have 6 guys nearby could just have 30 around them. that +3 is still really good.
ts

Ah, the beauty of theoryhammer.

Let's try geometry hammer:

How does one put 8 weird boyz within 18" of magnus, 3" apart of each other but within no more than 30 ork models within 10" of each of the weird boyz, if there must be enough models between the weirdboyz and Magnus so that 1600 points of CSM cannot simply gun them down.

Bonus points for describing how you got those models in position.

Sure, weird boyz are strong, but in no way able to easily kill a daemon primarch played by someone with even the slightest positioning skills. Even if you had a pain boy for every single weird boy to prevent them from exploding, you would need about 1096 points to smite an idiot Magnus simply charging your lines all by himself to death. If he hides behind two units of rubric marines, a rhino and a unit of terminators, the 8 weird boyz will not kill him over the course of a game. If he 'hides' behind Mortarion...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kastelen wrote:

 andrewm9 wrote:
Maybe I am being obtuse, but what the heck gives him +1 to his invulnerable saves in the first place.

You might be thinking of magnus re-rolling 1s on his save. If not then idk either.

Prescience power from the Dark Hereticus Discipline gives +1 to saves.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The level of sarcasm in this thread makes it hard to respond.

The OP complains about a fairly common scenario, which is Magnus getting shot off the board first / second turn. Yes, he has great saves, but when your opponent goes first / throws multiwound weapons at him, he breaks down. Add to this the fact he's lacks the offense he had in 7th edition, and Magnus stops being an auto-include unit.

This is not a problem specific to Magnus. There are plenty of units that concentrate a lot of value, including vehicles, elite infantry, firing platforms, etc. They cost a lot of points. When they go down, your army is at a disadvantage because you paid for that unit instead of other ones. There's less of everything else.

So... a few thoughts:

1) This is a listbuilding problem. Have a plan B for when he goes down. In fact, Magnus should be the plan B, everything else in the list should have a reason to be there. Don't count on everything going right when 25% of the cost of your army is bundled into a single unit.

2) Realize what other posters said is true. Barring a series of lucky shots, the opponent is going to have to throw a ton of firepower at Magnus to kill him. When your opponent is shooting at Magnus, the rest of the army needs to be able to pick apart the opponent's. Pick units that kill the things with lascannons.

3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Finally, a thought out reply, fantastic. Since 1K sons is a rather expensive army, what would be some hard hitter worth bringing? Deep striking terminators seem crazy but at the same time, very expensive. Currently have magnus, ahriman, 3 sorcs. and 20 rubrics.

Your post was, unfortunately, always going to draw a bit of ire - Magnus is considered one of the potentially overpowered options currently. Someone ran a herohammer Chaos list using just Mortarion, Magnus, and a Malefic Lord in a 1k pts tournament and won it, for example.

With The Changeling you can give Magnus a -1 to hit buff; Weaver of Fates (Tzeench-specific Psychic power) also buffs his invulnerable save by +1, both of which combined makes him substantially tougher. The biggest point to emphasize is techsoldaten's first one; however, because Tsons don't have a Codex yet you're either going to be limited to their small selection currently or will have to field a supporting detachment or two from a different faction (Daemons, CSM, Renegades and Heretics, etc.) but regardless, depending on your points limit in games Magnus is only ~425pts or so (don't have the Index handy atm) so you have a good 1500pts to spend elsewhere in a usual 2k pts game. What is the rest of your army doing?

Would help more to know what points/power level you're usually playing at, perhaps also the usual sorts of factions/armies your opponents use.

GhostRecon wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The level of sarcasm in this thread makes it hard to respond.

The OP complains about a fairly common scenario, which is Magnus getting shot off the board first / second turn. Yes, he has great saves, but when your opponent goes first / throws multiwound weapons at him, he breaks down. Add to this the fact he's lacks the offense he had in 7th edition, and Magnus stops being an auto-include unit.

This is not a problem specific to Magnus. There are plenty of units that concentrate a lot of value, including vehicles, elite infantry, firing platforms, etc. They cost a lot of points. When they go down, your army is at a disadvantage because you paid for that unit instead of other ones. There's less of everything else.

So... a few thoughts:

1) This is a listbuilding problem. Have a plan B for when he goes down. In fact, Magnus should be the plan B, everything else in the list should have a reason to be there. Don't count on everything going right when 25% of the cost of your army is bundled into a single unit.

2) Realize what other posters said is true. Barring a series of lucky shots, the opponent is going to have to throw a ton of firepower at Magnus to kill him. When your opponent is shooting at Magnus, the rest of the army needs to be able to pick apart the opponent's. Pick units that kill the things with lascannons.

3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Finally, a thought out reply, fantastic. Since 1K sons is a rather expensive army, what would be some hard hitter worth bringing? Deep striking terminators seem crazy but at the same time, very expensive. Currently have magnus, ahriman, 3 sorcs. and 20 rubrics.

Your post was, unfortunately, always going to draw a bit of ire - Magnus is considered one of the potentially overpowered options currently. Someone ran a herohammer Chaos list using just Mortarion, Magnus, and a Malefic Lord in a 1k pts tournament and won it, for example.

With The Changeling you can give Magnus a -1 to hit buff; Weaver of Fates (Tzeench-specific Psychic power) also buffs his invulnerable save by +1, both of which combined makes him substantially tougher. The biggest point to emphasize is techsoldaten's first one; however, because Tsons don't have a Codex yet you're either going to be limited to their small selection currently or will have to field a supporting detachment or two from a different faction (Daemons, CSM, Renegades and Heretics, etc.) but regardless, depending on your points limit in games Magnus is only ~425pts or so (don't have the Index handy atm) so you have a good 1500pts to spend elsewhere in a usual 2k pts game. What is the rest of your army doing?

Would help more to know what points/power level you're usually playing at, perhaps also the usual sorts of factions/armies your opponents use.

Generally play at around 2,000 and I toss in a few proxie things such as defiler or hellbrutes. play mostly imperials or death guard and the turns usual end up with magnus being shot off the table turn 1 or so crippled he is useless, then rest of the army getting mowed down from hordes of cheap infantry.

GhostRecon wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The level of sarcasm in this thread makes it hard to respond.

The OP complains about a fairly common scenario, which is Magnus getting shot off the board first / second turn. Yes, he has great saves, but when your opponent goes first / throws multiwound weapons at him, he breaks down. Add to this the fact he's lacks the offense he had in 7th edition, and Magnus stops being an auto-include unit.

This is not a problem specific to Magnus. There are plenty of units that concentrate a lot of value, including vehicles, elite infantry, firing platforms, etc. They cost a lot of points. When they go down, your army is at a disadvantage because you paid for that unit instead of other ones. There's less of everything else.

So... a few thoughts:

1) This is a listbuilding problem. Have a plan B for when he goes down. In fact, Magnus should be the plan B, everything else in the list should have a reason to be there. Don't count on everything going right when 25% of the cost of your army is bundled into a single unit.

2) Realize what other posters said is true. Barring a series of lucky shots, the opponent is going to have to throw a ton of firepower at Magnus to kill him. When your opponent is shooting at Magnus, the rest of the army needs to be able to pick apart the opponent's. Pick units that kill the things with lascannons.

3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Finally, a thought out reply, fantastic. Since 1K sons is a rather expensive army, what would be some hard hitter worth bringing? Deep striking terminators seem crazy but at the same time, very expensive. Currently have magnus, ahriman, 3 sorcs. and 20 rubrics.

Your post was, unfortunately, always going to draw a bit of ire - Magnus is considered one of the potentially overpowered options currently. Someone ran a herohammer Chaos list using just Mortarion, Magnus, and a Malefic Lord in a 1k pts tournament and won it, for example.

With The Changeling you can give Magnus a -1 to hit buff; Weaver of Fates (Tzeench-specific Psychic power) also buffs his invulnerable save by +1, both of which combined makes him substantially tougher. The biggest point to emphasize is techsoldaten's first one; however, because Tsons don't have a Codex yet you're either going to be limited to their small selection currently or will have to field a supporting detachment or two from a different faction (Daemons, CSM, Renegades and Heretics, etc.) but regardless, depending on your points limit in games Magnus is only ~425pts or so (don't have the Index handy atm) so you have a good 1500pts to spend elsewhere in a usual 2k pts game. What is the rest of your army doing?

Would help more to know what points/power level you're usually playing at, perhaps also the usual sorts of factions/armies your opponents use.

In response, Magnus is a Primarch. He's supposed to be OP. I don't think he's overcosted compared to RG, who I have a lot more trouble with due to the fact he's a Character with less than 10 wounds.

Taking 2 Primarchs in a list is what should be illegal. No one should be able to double down on OP characters at 1,000 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Generally play at around 2,000 and I toss in a few proxie things such as defiler or hellbrutes. play mostly imperials or death guard and the turns usual end up with magnus being shot off the table turn 1 or so crippled he is useless, then rest of the army getting mowed down from hordes of cheap infantry.

Part of the problem with Magnus is his supporting cast. Rubrics are a mid-range infantry option that moves slow up the board. Since Magnus can be targeted immediately, he usually needs to move way out in front to survive - which really only works when he's able to charge something.

So you have to support him or punish your opponent for ignoring the rest of your army. Defilers and Helbrutes can both take lascannons, load up on them. If Rubric Marines can cast Prescience, do it on your shooters. Also, rerolls. Make sure there's a Chaos Lord standing by to increase the likelihood of causing damage.

My Black Legion army is built around starting with 19 lascannon shots per turn with rerolls for all failed hits. If I were to put Magnus in there somewhere, maybe cut the number of lascannons in half, that feels like it would be adequate for supporting him.

The other idea is to go cheap. Get some Earthshaker batteries and set up a Renegades and Heretics detachment to compliment Magnus. They have indirect fire, you can position them behind buildings to force your opponent to move things forward to get to them.

In response, Magnus is a Primarch. He's supposed to be OP. I don't think he's overcosted compared to RG, who I have a lot more trouble with due to the fact he's a Character with less than 10 wounds.

Taking 2 Primarchs in a list is what should be illegal. No one should be able to double down on OP characters at 1,000 points.

No character, or unit, is "supposed to be OP".

Fluff =/= rules; this is a game, it needs to be balanced as such.

What about the armies that don't have Primarchs? are they "supposed to be UP"?

Well there's a number of Marine players that act like every non-marine army only exists to amuse Marine players by giving easy wins.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
3) Eventually, there's going to be a Thousand Sons Codex. It's going to have better psychic powers and Magnus will be stronger by default. In a way, we know a buff is coming.

Ehhh... to Thousand Sons in general sure, but I wouldn't be so sure Magnus is going to get buffed by the codex. The biggest question mark is if we're going to keep the CSM psychic list or get a new, Thousand Sons-specific one. If the former, nothing changes for Magnus, if the latter he loses warptime, which is the main reason he can be as immediately threatening on the board as he is. Losing it would be a huge nerf to him (except of course in fething soup lists which is really the only place he's problematic right now).

Of course my preference would be for Thousand Sons to keep the CSM list and ALSO get an additional list to match the number of psychic powers Craftworld Eldar can cast (maybe a KSons specific list, maybe the Tzeentch Daemons list) but that's just wishlisting.

In the case of Eldar, their best psychic discipline is locked to their worst psykers, and vice-versa.

nnnnnnnope. Spiritseers and Hemlocks are absolutely the best psykers Eldar have.

Neither of which hold a candle to the casting power of Farseers, so I don't see your point.

Everything dies fast if you roll bad on defense. Why should Magnus be the exception? The odds are very good that you will NOT roll badly for Magnus, though, because he's very well insulated against every kind of shooting, and can freely leave melee.