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I'm wondering what you guys think on Magnus, while he is fairly strong 8th neutered psychic phase and even when using the +1 to saves he will only have a 3++ with no way of regaining wounds that I can think of. While 3++ is quite strong the mass amount of lascannons and similar floating around he seems to die or get crippled by turn 2.

Try running him with the Changeling for a -1 to hit, too.

If a 3+ invun re-rolling 1s and -1 to hit on a 18 wound model is not survivable... then I don't know what is

 AaronWilson wrote:
If a 3+ invun re-rolling 1s and -1 to hit on a 18 wound model is not survivable... then I don't know what is

Exactly what this man said.

I'd say that Magnus is slightly undercosted. Not as much as Reroll Girlyman, but still undercosted.

And shooting him off the board by the end of round two isn't exactly free for your opponent.

IMHO his survivability should be way lower. I hate superheroes and Magnus is one the toughest ones. A lot of armies can't really kill him unless (maybe) they focus a lot of units on him, losing points in doing so.

...Am I in bizarro world here? The big giant monster HQ who has been appearing in practically every chaos soup list in top tables is not durable enough?

18W 3++ reroll 1s and -1 to hit, how durable do you WANT him to be???

What part of 18 wounds on a 3++ rerolling ones is too vulnerable to you?

Clearly magnus needs a 2+, re-rolling 1s and -1 to hit.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Troll.

If you kill Magnus, he should split into 2x mini-Magnuses, like pink horrors split into Blue Horrors.

Sure, maybe he dies Turn 2... But how much of your opponents army focused on killing him for two turns? If your opponent is having to spend 1,500 of their 2,000 point army to shoot/psychic blast/chop at Magnus for those two turns to avoid having that winged ball of death that destroys all in front of him arrive in the middle of their army, who is winning in that situation? The Magnus player of course.

You are most likely able to get more unscathed units onto objectives, get further across the board, and shoot at your opponents army with little retaliation.

 kronk wrote:
If you kill Magnus, he should split into 2x mini-Magnuses, like pink horrors split into Blue Horrors.

Any you can kill those again to split them into 4 Brimstone Magni

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO his survivability should be way lower. I hate superheroes and Magnus is one the toughest ones. A lot of armies can't really kill him unless (maybe) they focus a lot of units on him, losing points in doing so.

Yes. You have to spend lots of points to completely kill 1/4th-1/5th of your opponents army.

 AaronWilson wrote:
Clearly magnus needs a 2+, re-rolling 1s and -1 to hit.

Move along, nothing to see here.

+6 Wounds, +5 T, 2+/2++ with reroll 1's, attack twice in shooting and fight w/ reroll 1's, +3 casts, +3 denies, -1 to hit, always in cover (+2) should do it.

Is this thread real right now? Magnus is undercosted...

 Marmatag wrote:
Is this thread real right now? Magnus is undercosted...

Not really. 6 Exalted Flamers are 420pts, Magnus is 415pts. I can very easily do more damage to more things using Exalted Flamers, while also having more defense (arguably) than Magnus, depending on the opponent.

He's good for what he does, but he's not an auto-include and can still die rather easily if you get the drop on him, reduce/remove his save, or just get lucky on shots.

That being said, his survivability is just fine where he is.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Is this thread real right now? Magnus is undercosted...

Not really. 6 Exalted Flamers are 420pts, Magnus is 415pts. I can very easily do more damage to more things using Exalted Flamers, while also having more defense (arguably) than Magnus, depending on the opponent.

He's good for what he does, but he's not an auto-include and can still die rather easily if you get the drop on him, reduce/remove his save, or just get lucky on shots.

That being said, his survivability is just fine where he is.

Is this post serious? It's hard to tell based on the thread.

"Oh my unit isn't undercosted, all you have to do is get lucky on shots, and if you add up a bunch of other units, and look at one aspect of Magnus in a vacuum, he's so baddddd NO ONE auto includes him lololol he's not in any chaos soup lists ever lololol"

Personally couldnt image how unfun it would be to face a Maggy/Ahri combo.
I'd probably just call GG and go to the bar.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Is this thread real right now? Magnus is undercosted...

Not really. 6 Exalted Flamers are 420pts, Magnus is 415pts. I can very easily do more damage to more things using Exalted Flamers, while also having more defense (arguably) than Magnus, depending on the opponent.

He's good for what he does, but he's not an auto-include and can still die rather easily if you get the drop on him, reduce/remove his save, or just get lucky on shots.

That being said, his survivability is just fine where he is.

Is this post serious? It's hard to tell based on the thread.

"Oh my unit isn't undercosted, all you have to do is get lucky on shots, and if you add up a bunch of other units, and look at one aspect of Magnus in a vacuum, he's so baddddd NO ONE auto includes him lololol he's not in any chaos soup lists ever lololol"

My post is entirely serious. His not the boogieman you're making him out to be.

You may not be great at playing in a competitive scenario, and have an inflated opinion of his dominance as a result, which is entirely fine. In many casual settings many, many models are deemed to difficult by many players for a number of reasons.

I never said he was bad. I said he was appropriate for his cost, that he isn't *automatically* taken if you're able to take him.

Especially now that you're seeing codexes, there are many answers to "the big spooky red boy" on the table. Hell, last weekend I had someone get off the Eldar power to reduce his save by 1, giving him only a 5++, and then proceed to take him to 3-4ish wounds with a unit of Reapers.

You're being dramatic for the sake of being dramatic, at this point.

That's true, i am known for being an awful competitive player. I bow to your mighty intellect, and forum muscle.

The forums shall defer to you on this matter.

Let it be known, Magnus is easy to kill!

Of course you're conflating "a must kill" with "easy to kill."

Again, you're taking what I'm saying out of context to sensationalize it.

I didn't accuse you of being bad, or said that I'm better than you. I said, very specifically, that you MAY not be great and that this could sway your opinion on him to have a heavier bias. I then went on to tell you that is totally fine, and you're welcome to define a model however you'd like.

You're going out of your way to be outraged by something to the point of writing fiction about it.

Magnus could definitely use a buff to a re-rollable 2++.

I think Magnus is fine. He could have a 20-40 up in point costs. The problem is really the Changeling.

So apparently, according to Dakka posters, the only way to be survivable is to increase a save....mmmno. Look at some of the other big bads, they have similar saves, worse by one or two but they can regenerate wounds or come back from the dead. Magnus ALSO doesnt have a 3++ or -1 to hit stock, those come from another unit in the army and getting a psychic power off, which I mentioned is the problem, if you dont go first, enjoy having a dead magnus or nearly dead one from all the heavy hitting firepower in 1 *maybe* 2 turns.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
So apparently, according to Dakka posters, the only way to be survivable is to increase a save....mmmno. Look at some of the other big bads, they have similar saves, worse by one or two but they can regenerate wounds or come back from the dead. Magnus ALSO doesnt have a 3++ or -1 to hit stock, those come from another unit in the army and getting a psychic power off, which I mentioned is the problem, if you dont go first, enjoy having a dead magnus or nearly dead one from all the heavy hitting firepower in 1 *maybe* 2 turns.

Yes, Magnus needs to be 100 pts less and with more toughness and a better save. He needs a special rule to cast psychic powers out of turn. Then maybe we'll see him on the tables, maybe even the competitive scene if we're lucky.

Hoodwink wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
So apparently, according to Dakka posters, the only way to be survivable is to increase a save....mmmno. Look at some of the other big bads, they have similar saves, worse by one or two but they can regenerate wounds or come back from the dead. Magnus ALSO doesnt have a 3++ or -1 to hit stock, those come from another unit in the army and getting a psychic power off, which I mentioned is the problem, if you dont go first, enjoy having a dead magnus or nearly dead one from all the heavy hitting firepower in 1 *maybe* 2 turns.

Yes, Magnus needs to be 100 pts less and with more toughness and a better save. He needs a special rule to cast psychic powers out of turn. Then maybe we'll see him on the tables, maybe even the competitive scene if we're lucky.

Not sure why i'm bothering to reply since you're not reading, but whatever.

Basically im not saying he is so bad that he is unplayable like you are strawmanning but with how bad the psychic phase is, maybe give him a turn 1 -1 to hit (for only that turn), something to help not getting shot off the table before you get to even move him.

Magnus isn't that difficult to take down if the player with Magnus doesn't go first. However, once the player with Magnus gets a turn, he powers up with that +1 to his Inv, which with Magnus is a massive boost.

So, yeah, he's very very durable powered-up with the Changeling nearby, but really not tough to beat when not powered up and without the Changeling nearby.

This means he's a risk. He can be utterly unstoppable, or he can be a waste of points, and there's little inbetween.

Oh?

Can I have a native Invulnerable save for my super heavy tank? No? Well, that was rhetorical question. I don't need that.

 RedCommander wrote:
Oh?

Can I have a native Invulnerable save for my super heavy tank? No? Well, that was rhetorical question. I don't need that.

Yes, you can! You have to play Eldar and move at least an inch with a vehicle that doesn't ignore the move-and-fire penalty, though, so you can't have it top of turn one and it does detract from your firepower.

You could also be a Mastodon or a Gorgon and just have one.