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Well no reason they couldn't roll into same without actually changing blood/dark angels you could make. That's 100% doable if GW so wants. Would also ensure power level to other marines would be more likely than now as GW's design principle when making new codexes changes wildly each codex so currently it's more of lottery what's the guiding principle for each codex.

Codex: Space Marines

and

Codex: Special Marines

So you’re asking if two Chapters that are compliant with the Space Marine Codex, should be in the Space Marine Codex? I would have thought that’s a no-brainer.

I may be sliiiiightly biased because I play Black Templars - y’know, one of only two major non-compliant Chapters and the only Chapter (or maybe even faction, apart from Squats?) to lose their Codex...

 Vaktathi wrote:
Roll all of 'em into one codex. Not hard to add a couple chapter specific weapon swaps, a unique chapter tactic, and a couple extra variant units to the core book. Especially DA and BA which have always largely been codex adherent chapters. Would help a lot also with some armies being left without updates or access to stuff for long periods of time.

A lot of the differences are also relatively minor with people sticking to specific mechanics that have varied wildly over time over time when they really just add complexity for its own sake. Stuff like Sanguinary priests, these are Apothecaries, yes they have a different ability, but fundamentally they largely do the same thing, (theyre a support medic unit), any differences could be accounted for through other mechanics like chapter tactics, stratagems, etc without the need for their own unique book.

EDIT: If the galaxy's largest and most diverse fighting force, His Majesty's Most Glorious Imperial Guard, drawn from millions of different worlds and cultures and environments, represented on the table in everything from tank battalions to infantry brigades and artillery companies and VTOL mounted elite airborne commandos and more, can be portrayed with a single codex, surely Space Marines can be

Quoted for most glorious truth.

Roll 'em all in, call it a day.

Voted for DA and BA to be rolled into Codex SM. If the BT as non codex were rolled there I see no reason that Angels could not. GK and Deathwatch should be rolled into Codex Agents of Imperium, together with SoB, Assassins, Custodes, SoS and Inquisition.

This thread is bad, the OP is bad, and should feel bad.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
GK and Deathwatch should be rolled into Codex Agents of Imperium, together with SoB, Assassins, Custodes, SoS and Inquisition.

I would be behind this 100% if all of the "factions" could be mixed and matched at will in detachments with no loss of abilities.

 Bi'ios wrote:
This thread is bad, the OP is bad, and should feel bad.

You're bad and should feel bad.

kombatwombat wrote:
So you’re asking if two Chapters that are compliant with the Space Marine Codex, should be in the Space Marine Codex? I would have thought that’s a no-brainer.

I may be sliiiiightly biased because I play Black Templars - y’know, one of only two major non-compliant Chapters and the only Chapter (or maybe even faction, apart from Squats?) to lose their Codex...

Black Templars have what; 3 unique units, one of which is the Emperor’s Chanpion? Barely more unique than Crimson Fists.

I’d be alright with a Codex: Angels of Death. Rolling them into vanilla just adds another 30+ pages to a massive codex and lets GW charge another 20 bucks for it. No thanks. Codex Vanilla doesn’t have near enough art and painted models in it as is.

The problem I have is that the special snowflake chapter codex basically exist for the purpose of appealing to uniqueness. This results is a number of units that have been added that shouldn't have been added, keeping rules and wargear separate from chapters that would makes sense to have them, and giving a headache for balance (not to mention dragging the time away from other codexes).

However, just because I want to see spess mahreens get folded in doesn't mean I want to remove options. giving those unique rules and wargear to their similar units in the vanilla book allows those special models to still be represented while allowing other chapters to use those options to better represent their own units. Even bring back veteran skills for that units that do have unqiue special rules while also expanding the options for everyone else.

Let them keep one unit as unqiue ala crusader squads, dutch the stuff we can afford to lose, maybe make an Angels of Death supplement to put all the special characters in. In my mind a better SM codex is preferable to 4 medicore ones.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
In order to help keep the Blood Angels rumor thread clean, I decided I would make this thread. There are obviously many complaints about the game, but one that stands out is
1. Neither of the Angels codices have ever been great in terms of playing. The forced separation of which wargear Chapters can and can't have made them less competitive, as their "unique" options weren't cutting it.
.

Blood Angels were good in 3rd

Dark Angles were really good at the end of 7th with its demi-company and ravenwing deathstar

--
Quick two cents on how I feel:

Codex Space Marines:
As is

Codex Angels of Death:
-Blood angels
-Dark Angels

Codex Astra Militarum:
As is

Codex Imperial Agents:
Grey Knights
Inquisition
Custodes
Sisters

 Blacksails wrote:

 Bi'ios wrote:
This thread is bad, the OP is bad, and should feel bad.

You're bad and should feel bad.

You're both bad and should both feel bad.

Sisters of Battle shouldn't be rolled into a Codex: Inquisition or Codex: Imperial Agents.

They deserve to be expanded as an army and have their own Codex. Of all the forces of the Inquisition Military Chambers they are the one with the most personality, with their own place in the grand scheme of things in the Warhammer 40k gameplay. They have different Ordos from the Militant ones to the Hospitaliers, etc... everything of that can be expanded to have a good and complete Codex for them.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch in the other hand are much, much more limited in scope from the fluff. And much more "specialiced" compared with Sisters of Battle. Anti-Demon marines and Anti-Alien marines, when Sisters of Battle are a military force with their own complete personality like SPace Marines, Orks or Imperial Guard.

Not that I'm saying Grey Knights and Deathwathc shouldn't have their own Codex. If they expand their armies, go for it.

I think if they give for SoS and Custodes their options in 30k and the fluff (Like all the special Sisters of Silence units like the ones with flamers or the ones with dogs, I don't remember their names right now) they can be easy their own army: Talons of the Emperor, or something like that. They had their own niche and personality.

 Blacksails wrote:

EDIT: If the galaxy's largest and most diverse fighting force, His Majesty's Most Glorious Imperial Guard, drawn from millions of different worlds and cultures and environments, represented on the table in everything from tank battalions to infantry brigades and artillery companies and VTOL mounted elite airborne commandos and more, can be portrayed with a single codex, surely Space Marines can be

Quoted for most glorious truth.

Roll 'em all in, call it a day.

I'd like to point that that, technically, aren't they in three books? Guard baseline, + Elysians, + Death Korps? Granted, I haven't paid much attention to Elysians and DKK this edition.

 Melissia wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

EDIT: If the galaxy's largest and most diverse fighting force, His Majesty's Most Glorious Imperial Guard, drawn from millions of different worlds and cultures and environments, represented on the table in everything from tank battalions to infantry brigades and artillery companies and VTOL mounted elite airborne commandos and more, can be portrayed with a single codex, surely Space Marines can be

Quoted for most glorious truth.

Roll 'em all in, call it a day.

I'd like to point that that, technically, aren't they in three books? Guard baseline, + Elysians, + Death Korps? Granted, I haven't paid much attention to Elysians and DKK this edition.

Two books; Elysian and DKoK can be found in one FW book.

Fair enough. Still kinda proves my point tho. I'd rather have more books than less, because it gives us a lot more options and customization, and a lot more routes for army building, modeling, and painting. Every single time GW combines armies in to one book, they feth up and lose, neglect, or otherwise lessen things that were unique and interesting. I don't want to lose the unique and interesting parts of 40k.

All Xenos 1 codex; all Chaos 1 codex; all imperium 1 codex.

This is just a troll hating on BA/DA for whatever reason.

 Melissia wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

EDIT: If the galaxy's largest and most diverse fighting force, His Majesty's Most Glorious Imperial Guard, drawn from millions of different worlds and cultures and environments, represented on the table in everything from tank battalions to infantry brigades and artillery companies and VTOL mounted elite airborne commandos and more, can be portrayed with a single codex, surely Space Marines can be

Quoted for most glorious truth.

Roll 'em all in, call it a day.

I'd like to point that that, technically, aren't they in three books? Guard baseline, + Elysians, + Death Korps? Granted, I haven't paid much attention to Elysians and DKK this edition.

fair to point out, though they could have been rolled into the codex faily easily too, a regimental doctrine and a couple minor additions would have rolled it together nicely. I'd be all in favor of that, especially as it might make DKoK playable

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

EDIT: If the galaxy's largest and most diverse fighting force, His Majesty's Most Glorious Imperial Guard, drawn from millions of different worlds and cultures and environments, represented on the table in everything from tank battalions to infantry brigades and artillery companies and VTOL mounted elite airborne commandos and more, can be portrayed with a single codex, surely Space Marines can be

Quoted for most glorious truth.

Roll 'em all in, call it a day.

I'd like to point that that, technically, aren't they in three books? Guard baseline, + Elysians, + Death Korps? Granted, I haven't paid much attention to Elysians and DKK this edition.

fair to point out, though they could have been rolled into the codex faily easily too, a regimental doctrine and a couple minor additions would have rolled it together nicely. I'd be all in favor of that, especially as it might make DKoK playable

Yeah, I agree. I'd love to have more (read; all) the FW options in a single IG book.

 -v10mega wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
In order to help keep the Blood Angels rumor thread clean, I decided I would make this thread. There are obviously many complaints about the game, but one that stands out is
1. Neither of the Angels codices have ever been great in terms of playing. The forced separation of which wargear Chapters can and can't have made them less competitive, as their "unique" options weren't cutting it.
.

Blood Angels were good in 3rd

Dark Angles were really good at the end of 7th with its demi-company and ravenwing deathstar

--
Quick two cents on how I feel:

Codex Space Marines:
As is

Codex Angels of Death:
-Blood angels
-Dark Angels

Codex Astra Militarum:
As is

Codex Imperial Agents:
Grey Knights
Inquisition
Custodes
Sisters

Two short periods of time for Blood Angels (super short, I might add) to a longer history of Space Marine Codices competing better isn't exactly helping the argument. Also do remember everyone abandoned the Ravenwing one once people discovered how much better Ferisian Wolves were to do a star with so...

Will rolling them in make them better? If so, do it.They're 80% rolled in now and still SUCK.

Bremon wrote:
I’d be alright with a Codex: Angels of Death. Rolling them into vanilla just adds another 30+ pages to a massive codex and lets GW charge another 20 bucks for it. No thanks. Codex Vanilla doesn’t have near enough art and painted models in it as is.

But you would have less books to buy. Let's face it. Long gone are days when you just needed one codex! Imperium players would very likely SAVE money if there was this huge Codex: Imperium to buy and be done with it

Which is of course why GW doesn't do that! Why sell one book for 30 when you can sell 2 books for 40 or 3 books for 60!

I'm only buying one 8th ed codex. It will be marines or BA, depending on how badly BA get shafted. Again.

Put all armies in one book. Less is better, right? In fact, let's put the rules in that same book. It's so inconvenient to have multiple books for things!

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Put all armies in one book. Less is better, right? In fact, let's put the rules in that same book. It's so inconvenient to have multiple books for things!

I would be for it!

Though with lack of 7th ed really weird alliances(grey knights and tyranids with some necrons and daemons ) that might be tad too far But having one book per widest faction keyword. Imperium, Eldar, Chaos, Tyranids, Orks. Would be likely cheaper for players and less armies suffering from wild balance swings as GW decides to change design parameters on route.

$200 USD rulebook+all codexes, >1000 pages. That’s what I want to carry everywhere; I mean models are plastic now so we have so much less weight to carry than the old days /s.

Bremon wrote:
$200 USD rulebook+all codexes, >1000 pages. That’s what I want to carry everywhere; I mean models are plastic now so we have so much less weight to carry than the old days /s.

Yet somehow other tabletop miniatures games are able to do this and dont have $200, thousand page rulebooks...

This argument has been raised ad nauseum and shot down just as fast over many editions.

More to the point, I'd totally take a single $200 book over nearly twenty $50 books if I want to own all the rules and be familiar with all armies

There should be only *one* Marine codex, with a largish Rites of Battle Chapter Creation system to allow the representation of all Marine loyalist variants.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Bremon wrote:
$200 USD rulebook+all codexes, >1000 pages. That’s what I want to carry everywhere; I mean models are plastic now so we have so much less weight to carry than the old days /s.

Yet somehow other tabletop miniatures games are able to do this and dont have $200, thousand page rulebooks...

This argument has been raised ad nauseum and shot down just as fast over many editions.

More to the point, I'd totally take a single $200 book over nearly twenty $50 books if I want to own all the rules and be familiar with all armies

Beacon of truth right here.

Rolling in all the marines would add maybe a dozen odd pages for the rules, and probably around the same for the fluff sections. Most of the core units are the same between them all anyways, reduces the issues of point disparities between identical units as books get updated, and opens up more options for all Marine players.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
The problem I have is that the special snowflake chapter codex basically exist for the purpose of appealing to uniqueness. This results is a number of units that have been added that shouldn't have been added, keeping rules and wargear separate from chapters that would makes sense to have them, and giving a headache for balance (not to mention dragging the time away from other codexes).

However, just because I want to see spess mahreens get folded in doesn't mean I want to remove options. giving those unique rules and wargear to their similar units in the vanilla book allows those special models to still be represented while allowing other chapters to use those options to better represent their own units. Even bring back veteran skills for that units that do have unqiue special rules while also expanding the options for everyone else.

Let them keep one unit as unqiue ala crusader squads, dutch the stuff we can afford to lose, maybe make an Angels of Death supplement to put all the special characters in. In my mind a better SM codex is preferable to 4 medicore ones.

Exactly this. A lot of unique stuff really should not be unique. Why can't Raven Guard give their Honour Guard jump packs, Salamanders give their Assault Marines hand flamers or everyone except Black Templars put their wounded Librarians in Dreadnoughts? I would prefer one big and flexible marine codex with a lot of options over several smaller ones where stuff in nonsensically segregated.