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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Was checking the entry for the Chimera in the Index compared to the Codex and noticed it lost some options - HK missiles and stubbers/stormbolters, for instance. This is not reflected in the BattleScribe files I have (Warhammer 40,000 v1.0.78, dtd 2 November 2017).

Am I correct in assuming that the entry in the Index (and Battlescribe) is obsolete, and not to be used anymore?

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






As far as I can tell, you can use options from the index. I dont know where to find anything that says it exactly, but I just remember it being a thing.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

You can, yes. But... for now.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Interesting. It is weird to me that those options were deleted, as they are still present on the sprue / box kit and aren't exactly game makers / breakers.

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot






 Infantryman wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that the entry in the Index (and Battlescribe) is obsolete, and not to be used anymore?


I think of an Index like a previous version of of a Codex, though in this case the Index and Codex for any given army both work for the same Edition so you can choose to use one or the other. You can't, however, pick and choose what you use from which book. Regardless of if you want to use either the Index or the Codex, I don't think you'll find anyone that will disallow you from using one or the other, but if you're using one, I think it's safe to say you can't start picking up stuff from the other. So in the context of your example: If you were using the Index to create your list, then HK Missiles and Storm Bolters on your Chimeras would be fine, but if you're using the Codex and they're not listed as options in the Codex, then you can't take them on your Chimera.

Of course I may be wrong here, but I feel like this is the most logical way to look at it since the Codex for each army is - as far as I know - intended to replace the Index rather than supplement it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The way it's generally allowed to be used and agreed upon (fair warning, there have been some heated conversations here on the dakka dakka over this topic) is it comes down one of two ways.

Either A: If the unit does not exist in the current codex for your army but exists in the index you can pick the index version of the unit but pay the codex prices. Examples of this would be eldar autarch with warp jump generators or tyrnaid shrikes.

If the model your using has been updated in the codex but lost some weapons options or loadouts you can still pick them from the index and just use those options from the index, paying codex prices. Examples would be Dual autocannon dreadnoughts, Terminator Librarians with storm shields, autarch with reaper missiles launcher, or land speeders with dual heavy flamers.

Or B : You are always expected to be playing with the latest set of rules, if your unit has lost options then you simply can not pick those options on that unit anymore.


Unfortunately games workshop has come out on both sides of the argument / question and in the developers commentary you can fine online have said both are the way it works... which doesn't work. So really the best thing is to talk to your group and play it how they do. My own opinion for what it's worth is option a but that's because I have some older models with those old loadouts (land speeders with heavy flamers and librarian with storm shield) but I ask if it's ok if I play them before playing the game, and if my opponent says no I just use them as something else or don't use them. (To this date no one has said no, but I don't play tournaments and my group is kind of layed back).

   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Magnets it is

I mostly was after the HK for aesthetic purposes - looks like some of the missiles I've seen on Soviet light-armor, and I'm making a Soviet-ish styled force. Not a major technical loss, for sure, but a bummer never the less.

Fortunately the Gryphonne pattern one in IA still has the option...

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Gun Mage





There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Yeah it confuses a lot of people. It's pretty annoying that essentially nothing has changed, you just need two books now if you want to reference certain options that were removed entirely.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 TheWaspinator wrote:
There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


How nice of you to do selective quoting forgetting to show part where it says that entry on codex OVERWRITES identical name entry in index thus deleting it. You are not supposed to use entries in index that are in codex. You can only use entries in the index that have no equilavent in codex like rough riders. If entry exists in codex there is no more entry in index to use. Only latest entry exists. The one in codex.

How hard this simple thing can be?

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

tneva82 wrote:
 TheWaspinator wrote:
There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


How nice of you to do selective quoting forgetting to show part where it says that entry on codex OVERWRITES identical name entry in index thus deleting it. You are not supposed to use entries in index that are in codex. You can only use entries in the index that have no equilavent in codex like rough riders. If entry exists in codex there is no more entry in index to use. Only latest entry exists. The one in codex.

How hard this simple thing can be?

Because if you ask GW on facebook they will repeatedly tell you to just reference the index options and you can take those as well. Go on facebook and ask yourself, you'll see.

For example, I asked them if Company Commanders for IG could still take shotguns and they said yes, just reference the index to see who can take what then use updated points costs (if any) in the codex. I also was told this was fine for demo charges and the like.


Hence why everyone hates this mess and wonders why the options didn't just stay in the codex to begin with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 03:53:29


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Gun Mage





Saying that identical name entries are completely invalid misses the entire point of that question. They specifically give permission for index dreadnought weapons, which is a sheet with the same name as the codex version.

Yes, they do also say to use the newer version when available. This isn't a contradiction: you use the codex version except for models which have wargear options that are index-only, which we have specific permission to use.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Yeah, this is confusing. Like, I get how to do it now (thanks you all) but not why it is done that way.

I mean, why should they care - in the general sense - if they still sell the model or not? I guess to double dip on book sales but still.

Speaking of Rough Riders, I need to start planning bits for those conversions, too...

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




It's worth noting that some tournaments require you to use only your codex if you have one

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Infantryman wrote:
Yeah, this is confusing. Like, I get how to do it now (thanks you all) but not why it is done that way.

I mean, why should they care - in the general sense - if they still sell the model or not? I guess to double dip on book sales but still.

Speaking of Rough Riders, I need to start planning bits for those conversions, too...

M.

To explain that, you would need to go through about 200 pages of legal gakstorm that was the chapterhouse lawsuit.

Long story short in the old days people had all kinds of zany options that GW either didn't make or no longer made. Times were good if somewhat annoying in that you had to convert things from scratch sometimes.

Then the 3rd party companies rose and made all sorts of 3rd party bits to fill the gaps. An lo were the days of Imperial guard scale shotguns and wheel kits for chimeras a plenty.

And yet, while many called their bits "rifles for dudesmen in space" or other such nondescript names, there was one company who refused to be subtle, and instead blatantly stated what each part was for.

This company was Chapterhouse, who dared have the audacity to state that parts of models they made could in any way be compatible with any other company's product (you know, like 99% of other consumer products do all the time)

And lo GW was furious, and the great Kirby sent his mighty lawyers after chapterhouse to issue the great C&D, claiming ownership of things such as "space Marines", "Imperial Guard", and "Hammers".

And yet, Kirby miscalculated, for a great legal team from the west appeared to oppose him pro bono, leading to the greatest hobby lawsuit of our time. Many fell on both sides, and chapterhouse was all but obliterated in the attempt, but they technically won.

Kirby, in his rage, set about removing all options without models and began the great "astra milawhatevering" of our time, where all things must be trademarkable, all art must be buildable out of standard box parts, and all options in codexes must be currently made.

Now the fool seeks to return the past, and undo the future that is-

Whoops got caught up in the moment there, you get the idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 04:19:28


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Epic tale of misadventure


Wow, I both loved that story and hated every word of it.

I had bumped into "Chapterhouse" references while bitz hunting the other day, and was wondering how the heck they got away with directly calling stuff out - for a moment I had hope thinking maybe GW had opened up a bit. LOL NOEP.

Thanks for filling me in, though!

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Regarding Imperial Guard characters, let's say you choose to use the index version of a Company Commander (because you really want that Power Maul ).

Do you use the Index Orders or the Codex Orders for him?



(Also, kudos for that story, MrMoustaffa )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 10:35:20


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Infantryman wrote:
Was checking the entry for the Chimera in the Index compared to the Codex and noticed it lost some options - HK missiles and stubbers/stormbolters, for instance. This is not reflected in the BattleScribe files I have (Warhammer 40,000 v1.0.78, dtd 2 November 2017).

Am I correct in assuming that the entry in the Index (and Battlescribe) is obsolete, and not to be used anymore?

M.


The Chimera entry says "This model may take items from the Vehicle Equipment list." p113

The Vehicle Equipment List (p85) includes Hunter-killer missiles, Heavy stubbers, Stom bolters, among other options.

None of those options were lost.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 Asmodai wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
Was checking the entry for the Chimera in the Index compared to the Codex and noticed it lost some options - HK missiles and stubbers/stormbolters, for instance. This is not reflected in the BattleScribe files I have (Warhammer 40,000 v1.0.78, dtd 2 November 2017).

Am I correct in assuming that the entry in the Index (and Battlescribe) is obsolete, and not to be used anymore?

M.


The Chimera entry says "This model may take items from the Vehicle Equipment list." p113

The Vehicle Equipment List (p85) includes Hunter-killer missiles, Heavy stubbers, Stom bolters, among other options.

None of those options were lost.


IDHMBWM but my Codex "Vehicle Equipment" list did not have them. There were only three entries - Augur Array, Track Guards, and one other that wasn't any of those weapons.

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 vipoid wrote:
Regarding Imperial Guard characters, let's say you choose to use the index version of a Company Commander (because you really want that Power Maul ).

Do you use the Index Orders or the Codex Orders for him?



(Also, kudos for that story, MrMoustaffa )

The new codex entry supersedes any previous version of things in it.

So it supersedes old orders, warlord abilities, relics, and technically the new power fist supersedes the old power fist, etc. Regardless of if the cost goes up or down. You would also use the new company commander's stats and costs.

Index comes in when you no longer have an option. So let's say you look at the codex and notice there is no power maul for your company commander.

1. check the index to see if it has a power maul.
2.If it does, check codex to see if you have a points cost for the power maul
3.If the codex doesn't have a cost for the power maul, you check the index and use that cost if available

This is as best I can tell they want you to do it based on repeated experience with the Facebook page which, other than an official faq, is the most official source Ive got.

This process would be applicable to anything in theoretically any codex, so IG tanks can still bring Hunter killer missiles, priests can still bring eviscerators, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW goes back on this with a FAQ or something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 16:37:00


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

As far as I know, the only way you can use index choices is if they are not in the new codex.

I recall librarians on a bike being an example of a unit that was in the index, but not the codex. Therefore, you can use that index unit.

However, if they are in both index and codex, as I'm sure chimeras are, you have to use the codex option.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Here's a related question that's been bugging me:

If you have a unit that exists in the Index (say, a Ministorum Priest) which has been updated by a codex (say, Codex: Astra Militarum in our example), but you don't play that army (like I play Sisters of Battle)...

... if I take a Ministorum Priest in my Sisters of Battle Army, do I need to buy the Imperial Guard codex to use the latest version? Or can I keep using the index?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

 Infantryman wrote:
 Asmodai wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
Was checking the entry for the Chimera in the Index compared to the Codex and noticed it lost some options - HK missiles and stubbers/stormbolters, for instance. This is not reflected in the BattleScribe files I have (Warhammer 40,000 v1.0.78, dtd 2 November 2017).

Am I correct in assuming that the entry in the Index (and Battlescribe) is obsolete, and not to be used anymore?

M.


The Chimera entry says "This model may take items from the Vehicle Equipment list." p113

The Vehicle Equipment List (p85) includes Hunter-killer missiles, Heavy stubbers, Stom bolters, among other options.

None of those options were lost.


IDHMBWM but my Codex "Vehicle Equipment" list did not have them. There were only three entries - Augur Array, Track Guards, and one other that wasn't any of those weapons.

M.


New codex, PG 85, bottom box of Wargear. Vehicle Equipment. HK and stubbers are there.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
As far as I know, the only way you can use index choices is if they are not in the new codex.

I recall librarians on a bike being an example of a unit that was in the index, but not the codex. Therefore, you can use that index unit.

However, if they are in both index and codex, as I'm sure chimeras are, you have to use the codex option.


They are; it's just the pintle and HK missiles being missing in the Codex (but still in the dang kit!) that sent me down this path. For sure I'll run into more at some point, too...

At least when I get around to using Rough Riders, they'll be in the Index a while.

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Regarding Imperial Guard characters, let's say you choose to use the index version of a Company Commander (because you really want that Power Maul ).

Do you use the Index Orders or the Codex Orders for him?



(Also, kudos for that story, MrMoustaffa )

The new codex entry supersedes any previous version of things in it.

So it supersedes old orders, warlord abilities, relics, and technically the new power fist supersedes the old power fist, etc. Regardless of if the cost goes up or down. You would also use the new company commander's stats and costs.

Index comes in when you no longer have an option. So let's say you look at the codex and notice there is no power maul for your company commander.

1. check the index to see if it has a power maul.
2.If it does, check codex to see if you have a points cost for the power maul
3.If the codex doesn't have a cost for the power maul, you check the index and use that cost if available

This is as best I can tell they want you to do it based on repeated experience with the Facebook page which, other than an official faq, is the most official source Ive got.

This process would be applicable to anything in theoretically any codex, so IG tanks can still bring Hunter killer missiles, priests can still bring eviscerators, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW goes back on this with a FAQ or something.


Ah, that's a lot of help.

Cheers, mate.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






tneva82 wrote:
 TheWaspinator wrote:
There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


How nice of you to do selective quoting forgetting to show part where it says that entry on codex OVERWRITES identical name entry in index thus deleting it. You are not supposed to use entries in index that are in codex. You can only use entries in the index that have no equilavent in codex like rough riders. If entry exists in codex there is no more entry in index to use. Only latest entry exists. The one in codex.

How hard this simple thing can be?

Except they specifically give you an example of a unit that got a codex entry and told us we can use it if we're using a weapon option that isn't in the codex indicating that your interpretation is incorrect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 19:03:20


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah see this is why I said it's kind of a touchy subject lol.

It's both and that's the issue. For friendly games I don't see why someone would give you a Hassel. If your playing a tournament then it's up to the organizers.

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





the way I understand it is: "Yes, except where it doesn't"

Take a look at what I've been painting and modelling: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/725222.page 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





For tournament goes - be prepared for Codex only. I think that'll be the standard within a year - solely because checking army lists will be impossible/aggravating and unclear with Index/Codex confusion. While this is will hinder some models - it'll be at the TO's discretion and I think you should safely plan not to run anything withou a Codex entry.

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 MrMoustaffa wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 TheWaspinator wrote:
There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


How nice of you to do selective quoting forgetting to show part where it says that entry on codex OVERWRITES identical name entry in index thus deleting it. You are not supposed to use entries in index that are in codex. You can only use entries in the index that have no equilavent in codex like rough riders. If entry exists in codex there is no more entry in index to use. Only latest entry exists. The one in codex.

How hard this simple thing can be?

Because if you ask GW on facebook they will repeatedly tell you to just reference the index options and you can take those as well. Go on facebook and ask yourself, you'll see.

For example, I asked them if Company Commanders for IG could still take shotguns and they said yes, just reference the index to see who can take what then use updated points costs (if any) in the codex. I also was told this was fine for demo charges and the like.


Hence why everyone hates this mess and wonders why the options didn't just stay in the codex to begin with.


Facebook is a crap source. Its such a crap source that facebook itself tells you not to trust it as a source and that your better of contacting the rules team, reading official faqs, and talking to your group.


The codex overwrites the index. You are expecred to be using the most current datasheet. The most current datasheet is rhe one that gives you your options. In your own games, with your opponents permission, you are welcome to use the index sheet instead.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
 
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