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 chimeara wrote:

 AaronWilson wrote:
Here's the thing with games. They don't matter, they just don't matter. In the grand scheme of life, they're so un-important.

You don't get anything from winning a game, events or hell even 128 player events. Unless you're playing for life changing cash, the outcome of any game just doesn't matter. You don't get a life point every time you win a game and when you die you get a bonus for the more you have.

With that in mind, all that matters in a game is the time you spend inside it, as once it's over it doesn't matter. The hobby is a pure escapism tool and when I hear people turning it from pure enjoyment, downtime from life and general laughs to anything but that it bewilders me.

This, 100x this. I get the same thing with MtG. People turn a hobby into a blood sport. It's just not cool.

I saw a standup comedian this weekend, and he mentioned having recently watched "The Great British Bake-off," which were lots of contestants cheerily baking British goods while being oh-so-politely British.

"You can't make that kind of show in AMERICA! Every baker needs a tragic backstory, one of the bakers needs to be the designated villain until voted off, and you need one baker to set another on FIRE!"

Competition will find its way into anything. Even being a Bachelor or a Real Housewife.

While I understand that competition is a biological part of humanity, there is a time and place for it. Hobbies are not it all the time.

Erasing as quoted comment is gone.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I've lost to tau with my Astra Militarum on several occasions. The shooting is superior to my own and the armor saves combined with fly makes them slightly better in melee. AM tanks are still superior, but those giant rail rifles can core a leman russ a turn if they focus fire.

Tau are pretty good, but the forgeworld stuff can be over the top. I've seen riptides take apart twice their point value by jumping right into the middle of armored columns. The jump far enough away to use those 3d6 flamers, jump back in to engage and prevent tank counterfire.

Tau aren't the top tier, but of all the index armies they are easily the best of the remaining.

Gulliman is a separate issue. He's incredibly overpowered, but also an ultramarine, which means GW won't want to nerf him in any major way. I suspect primarchs and their 400pt equivalents are going to become a mainstay for chaos/imperium forces for a long time to come.

I suppose you are playing some unorthodox Imperial Guard army? Because a typical "meta" Imperial Guard army out-shoot Tau every day of the week.

chimeara wrote:This, 100x this. I get the same thing with MtG. People turn a hobby into a blood sport. It's just not cool.

A large part of why I stopped playing. Too many "twitchy" guys.

M.

I have never seen a doubles event that allowed multiple detachments per person. Additionally, each player is considered a 'separate faction' so their buffs don't translate. For example, if I were to bring Alpha Legion, my reroll bubble on my Daemon Prince would not extend to my team mate's Alpha Legion models.

Can you share more info regarding the tournament?

And honestly you should have done better with your list. It sounds like you got outplayed.

Mentioning that you "got lucky" and positioned your Y'varha to kill 2 whole genestealer squads... I mean that should be the norm with a model like that. If you feel that means you "got lucky" then you probably need to practice with it more.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Tau hate is probably just a remnant of 7th tbh. I'm dreading the day they get a codex, mind, especially if codex creep so far is anything to go by.

 Gamgee wrote:
Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

Guilliman with Razorback spam is a good list, but the top is IG and Chaos in all its wonderful forms if you look at the bigger tournaments.

Discounting Atlanta, since it was an illegal list.

The list itself was legal, the assignment of relics wasn't. And in all seriousness, an Astropath is 15 points. It's incredibly easy to shuffle for an extra Company Commander to make it legal.

It didn't need a Company Commander. I said this in the thread where I called the list out.

He could have placed a Master of Ordnance within the list, dropped his Grenade Launchers from the Vostroyans(since they really served no purpose) and been fine.

Also if the assignment of relics "wasn't legal", then the list can't be legal now can it?

The twitchiness can also vary within an individual from game to game.

My last game was a brutal victory. The same opponent loses gracefully usually when he loses (and wins about as much as he loses). But he got a little twitchy (didn't become unsportsmanly, but you could see the anger - he kept it in check).

Some things are less fun to lose to than other things. He made a couple mistakes, and I bled him for it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Tau hate is probably just a remnant of 7th tbh. I'm dreading the day they get a codex, mind, especially if codex creep so far is anything to go by.

 Gamgee wrote:
Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

Guilliman with Razorback spam is a good list, but the top is IG and Chaos in all its wonderful forms if you look at the bigger tournaments.

Discounting Atlanta, since it was an illegal list.

The list itself was legal, the assignment of relics wasn't. And in all seriousness, an Astropath is 15 points. It's incredibly easy to shuffle for an extra Company Commander to make it legal.

It didn't need a Company Commander. I said this in the thread where I called the list out.

He could have placed a Master of Ordnance within the list, dropped his Grenade Launchers from the Vostroyans(since they really served no purpose) and been fine.

Also if the assignment of relics "wasn't legal", then the list can't be legal now can it?

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

Bharring wrote:
Some things are less fun to lose to than other things.

This. I think this gets overlooked a lot. If you have one friend who powergames where the rest all play for fun, even if you win against them, it's not necessarily a good feeling. And winning isn't just un-fun, but frustrating as hell because he overlooked the unwritten rules of the group.

It happens on a macro level, too. We look at competitive scenes and we look at what gets addressed by GW for nerfs. For example, compare Guilleman to Ynnari - a huge part of the community *hated* playing/losing against Ynnari, even though it's a solidly second tier army, so it gets the Nerf bat instead.

Bharring wrote:
The twitchiness can also vary within an individual from game to game.

My last game was a brutal victory. The same opponent loses gracefully usually when he loses (and wins about as much as he loses). But he got a little twitchy (didn't become unsportsmanly, but you could see the anger - he kept it in check).

Some things are less fun to lose to than other things. He made a couple mistakes, and I bled him for it.

Also this. Imagine playing Street Fighter 2, where everyone besides Akuma is Dan Hibiki.

On the topic of tau and relating to competition. They really don't belong in tournaments. However - if you are bringing a yvvarh which is possibly the most overpowered model in all of 40k I think you have a chance - and getting obliterated 3 times with it...you ether had bad luck or got outplayed or had a bad team mate. In all honesty - tau aren't in any worse shape than space marines and they have a codex.

I played like crap my first games back in 40k. I didn't fault my opponent for taking advantage. I expected it. That said, I still have fun at playing even though I get the crap beat outta me every game.

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

 Xenomancers wrote:
On the topic of tau and relating to competition. They really don't belong in tournaments. However - if you are bringing a yvvarh which is possibly the most overpowered model in all of 40k I think you have a chance - and getting obliterated 3 times with it...you ether had bad luck or got outplayed or had a bad team mate. In all honesty - tau aren't in any worse shape than space marines and they have a codex.

Says the guy defending UM in another 40+ page thread just so he can hate on other armies. Come on, man. Nobody buys it anymore, don't troll.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

You can hold that opinion - but don't try to play it off like this list isn't incredibly powerful. Almost unbeatable really.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

You can hold that opinion - but don't try to play it off like this list isn't incredibly powerful. Almost unbeatable really.

Oh please. The Death Riders were key to that, and probably nobody shot them.

Are we still on the Y'Vahra is overpowered train? Seriously? It's a normal tank that costs 400+ points, man. It's a glass cannon at best. I'd call it appropriately costed or maybe a little expensive. It's definitely not the panacea that Tau need to be internally balanced or successful in the competitive sphere.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Are we still on the Y'Vahra is overpowered train? Seriously? It's a normal tank that costs 400+ points, man. It's a glass cannon at best. I'd call it appropriately costed or maybe a little expensive. It's definitely not the panacea that Tau need to be internally balanced or successful in the competitive sphere.

It's a suicide unit for sure. It makes up it's point on turn 1 though if you are lucky. Plus you can really make them pay to try to bring it down with gun drones. I can't imagine what this unit is going to be capable of with stratagems from a tau codex. It's actually quite scary to think about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

You can hold that opinion - but don't try to play it off like this list isn't incredibly powerful. Almost unbeatable really.

Oh please. The Death Riders were key to that, and probably nobody shot them.

IDK about that - I think scout sentinels/ drop plasma scions / or elisians could have filled this roll just as easily. I know the guy just loves horses.

Unfortunately as Tau we only have 3 good units in the index. Fortunately for Tau those 3 units are really REALLY good. I have no problem keeping up with Guilliman gunlines, chaos soup, and other hard lists.

As it is right now you can build a very competitive list and compete for top 8 with a chance at first at major tournaments, especially seeing as Tau are really good at the new ITC missions. That being said the reason Tau were fun in 7th was because of all of the options. Now it's plug and play 3 units and you don't have much choice.

Are they OP? No. But we can easily outpace guilliman gunlines and AM lists.

Tanniith wrote:
Unfortunately as Tau we only have 3 good units in the index. Fortunately for Tau those 3 units are really REALLY good. I have no problem keeping up with Guilliman gunlines, chaos soup, and other hard lists.

As it is right now you can build a very competitive list and compete for top 8 with a chance at first at major tournaments, especially seeing as Tau are really good at the new ITC missions. That being said the reason Tau were fun in 7th was because of all of the options. Now it's plug and play 3 units and you don't have much choice.

Are they OP? No. But we can easily outpace guilliman gunlines and AM lists.

Guilliman for sure but AM IDK.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

You can hold that opinion - but don't try to play it off like this list isn't incredibly powerful. Almost unbeatable really.

Oh please. The Death Riders were key to that, and probably nobody shot them.

IDK about that - I think scout sentinels/ drop plasma scions / or elisians could have filled this roll just as easily. I know the guy just loves horses.

No. They couldn't have.

I explained this to you before, the thing about Death Riders is they're a CC capable unit in Guard that are relatively inexpensive, have the ability to shrug off wounds that are from S4 or less(on a 5+, Augmented Mounts let you do this), ignores penalties to their Move when charging into terrain features, and ignore Morale tests from Shooting casualties. They also can take Orders(Sentinels can't do this), one of which is that if the unit is killed during the Fight phase they immediately make a single attack.

So no, there is nothing else could have matched that.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Tau aren't the top tier, but of all the index armies they are easily the best of the remaining.

Absolutely agreed.

 Brutallica wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Tau aren't the top tier, but of all the index armies they are easily the best of the remaining.

Absolutely agreed.

Brut agreed with you so now I know two trolls.

 Gamgee wrote:
Anyway went to a tournament as Tau because it was a team and they wanted another player. So okay I'll stick out three games of getting my ass kicked. Anyways nothing but Gulliman spammers and IG players and Chaos players at my meta tournament or not. So I got slaughtered all day. Even by a genestealer cults and IG team. I came in dead last at the tournament. Despite this three people still think the Tau are overpowered.

THREE PEOPLE! One of which played me and I managed to luckily get my Y'vahrah in position to kill two squads of genestealers and he was so upset that it was "so strong and overpowered". His IG ally destroyed the Y'vahrah before it ever got close enough to do much of anything. Actually that was more or less my entire army. Meanwhile one of the other never played me at all but knew crisis were super OP from a fried despite never fighting them. Against another IG I got tabled in turn one and managed to kill like 9 guys with my 1000 points. Didn't get a game three since no one showed for that match so I had to wait.

These are the kinds of people we have to deal with in the community. Online and in real life who will NEVER give the Tau a fair chance. If there are any GW people here by some slim chance. I need you to seriously reconsider listening to the most anti-Tau rabid idiots out there. Thanks.

Battlion
Commander
4 fusion
2 gun drones

Cadre Firebalde

Strike 5
Strike 5
Strike 5

Stealth Suit
1 fusion
2 gun drones

Pathfinder 10

Gun Drones 6

Y'vahrah
2mv 52 shield drones.

The store owner is getting sick of Gulliman always winning and no other army really stands a chance except another Gulliman. That's all it ever comes down to or maybe one IG player who can put up a fight.

I don't care about the players beating me. I don't care about losing. What I care about is this idea that Tau are overpowered. It needs to die in a fire at this point.

I'm not playing another game with Tau until they are fixed. It's simply a waste of time unless I go buy 3 more commanders which I don't want to do.

It takes a while for the community to forgive you for having a super powerful codex. The other day someone was whining to me about CSM and cited Double Lash Daemon princes. WHAT. how long ago was that. 5 years. Eventually people will forget and move on or they won’t.

I played against tau twice recently and won both games. When they get a codex you will be much improved.

 Gamgee wrote:
the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. .

The Conscript Spam is dead since they nerfed the Commissars.

And in any case, what difference to Conscripts make to Tau? You're not going to be trying to close combat the IG tanks with the Tau anyway.

 sennacherib wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Anyway went to a tournament as Tau because it was a team and they wanted another player. So okay I'll stick out three games of getting my ass kicked. Anyways nothing but Gulliman spammers and IG players and Chaos players at my meta tournament or not. So I got slaughtered all day. Even by a genestealer cults and IG team. I came in dead last at the tournament. Despite this three people still think the Tau are overpowered.

THREE PEOPLE! One of which played me and I managed to luckily get my Y'vahrah in position to kill two squads of genestealers and he was so upset that it was "so strong and overpowered". His IG ally destroyed the Y'vahrah before it ever got close enough to do much of anything. Actually that was more or less my entire army. Meanwhile one of the other never played me at all but knew crisis were super OP from a fried despite never fighting them. Against another IG I got tabled in turn one and managed to kill like 9 guys with my 1000 points. Didn't get a game three since no one showed for that match so I had to wait.

These are the kinds of people we have to deal with in the community. Online and in real life who will NEVER give the Tau a fair chance. If there are any GW people here by some slim chance. I need you to seriously reconsider listening to the most anti-Tau rabid idiots out there. Thanks.

Battlion
Commander
4 fusion
2 gun drones

Cadre Firebalde

Strike 5
Strike 5
Strike 5

Stealth Suit
1 fusion
2 gun drones

Pathfinder 10

Gun Drones 6

Y'vahrah
2mv 52 shield drones.

The store owner is getting sick of Gulliman always winning and no other army really stands a chance except another Gulliman. That's all it ever comes down to or maybe one IG player who can put up a fight.

I don't care about the players beating me. I don't care about losing. What I care about is this idea that Tau are overpowered. It needs to die in a fire at this point.

I'm not playing another game with Tau until they are fixed. It's simply a waste of time unless I go buy 3 more commanders which I don't want to do.

It takes a while for the community to forgive you for having a super powerful codex. The other day someone was whining to me about CSM and cited Double Lash Daemon princes. WHAT. how long ago was that. 5 years. Eventually people will forget and move on or they won’t.

I played against tau twice recently and won both games. When they get a codex you will be much improved.

It's kind of along the lines of the FW stigma of old. It still hangs around some flgs. Probably mostly because of the occasional cheese list that show up rarely. People will always hold a grudge against something that's "too good" even if it's nerfed or toned down a bit.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Tau aren't the top tier, but of all the index armies they are easily the best of the remaining.

Absolutely agreed.

Brut agreed with you so now I know two trolls.

Which index only army would you put above them? Necrons? Sisters of Battle? Genestealer Cult?

I'm not going to claim they are as good as a codex army, but of the ones yet to receive a codex they are in the strongest position.


One thing I learned from my match was that Bullgryns were an unexpected success. The massive dice of the 3d6 AP0 flamers mean nothing to them and they are just cheap enough that you don't care if they eat a fusion blast. I had expected them to die quickly, but the buggers ended up eating a unit of crisis suits.

 Gamgee wrote:


These are the kinds of people we have to deal with in the community. Online and in real life who will NEVER give the Tau a fair chance. If there are any GW people here by some slim chance. I need you to seriously reconsider listening to the most anti-Tau rabid idiots out there. Thanks.

The store owner is getting sick of Gulliman always winning and no other army really stands a chance except another Gulliman. That's all it ever comes down to or maybe one IG player who can put up a fight.

I don't care about the players beating me. I don't care about losing. What I care about is this idea that Tau are overpowered. It needs to die in a fire at this point.

I'm not playing another game with Tau until they are fixed. It's simply a waste of time unless I go buy 3 more commanders which I don't want to do.

Reminds me of when i played Skaven in 8th ed warhammer fantasy. People were absolutely convinced they were the most broken army ever despite so many people losing with them. Despite the cheese of a 2+ armor save empire army, despite us having an 8 page FAQ that didn't answer everything, despite all 3 elf factions having absurd OP crap and all being written by Mat Ward, despite other armies being stronger (ogres, vampires and lizardmen being stronger armies). Yet the ETC restrictions somehow magically restricted skaven the least and so they were broken even in un-restricted play where cheese was everywhere to be seen and skaven were probably upper mid tier at best, in need of a new army book, had an 8 page FAQ that didn't answer everything and legit had a good chunk of units that were bad or mediocre with the must-have's dominating every list. We needed a new army book but alas it was not to be. We had the 2nd oldest army book by the time 8th ed Fantasy died and the game with it. Now if i want to play 8th ed i either need to remember an 8 page FAQ that you can no longer download (to my knowledge) or just play without any FAQ meaning it's much harder. Oh and excluding End Times we haven't had an update since '08 or '09. I hate AoS but even they haven't re-vamped the army really besides separating the plague monk units from the rest and provided 0 new models. Yeah just defecate on my dreams GW. I mean my hopes for rat ogre cavalry and jetpack skaven will never be. No updates since '08 or '09 even including the fact they were a massively popular army in Fantasy. Yeah thanks for that.

Anyway i'm sure your tau will be fixed but i'll admit i care less than the tau players. I had to play dark eldar for most of 7th edition and whenever i fought as dark eldar vs tau trying to survive past turn 3 was a challenge. Survive as in not being tabled. I'm pretty sure i always lost vs tau and even vs a list that only had one riptide and no stormsurge when i was just getting into 7th ed 40k. I think the best i ever did was 4 archons with shadowfields and huskblade in a unit managing to take down 1 stormsurge out of his 2 and also with a riptide. I still lost.

I'm sure they'll fix tau and the amount of tears doesn't compare to sucking for multiple editions (as dark eldar) considering 8th has only been out for months. I'm sure they'll make tau dumb again and then i'll have to deal with a smug tau player at my local shop all over again.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It was an honest mistake that could have easily been rectified without changing his list in the slightest. In fact being vostroyan and dropping grenade launchers might have actually made his list stronger. The win is untarnished and is a true example that when a great player plays AM with the intentions of winning - he will absolutely house the competition.

If the guy can't read his fething book and figure out how it works?

Yes, the win is tarnished. He deserves it stripped from him and to be absolutely mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

You can hold that opinion - but don't try to play it off like this list isn't incredibly powerful. Almost unbeatable really.

Oh please. The Death Riders were key to that, and probably nobody shot them.

IDK about that - I think scout sentinels/ drop plasma scions / or elisians could have filled this roll just as easily. I know the guy just loves horses.

No. They couldn't have.

I explained this to you before, the thing about Death Riders is they're a CC capable unit in Guard that are relatively inexpensive, have the ability to shrug off wounds that are from S4 or less(on a 5+, Augmented Mounts let you do this), ignores penalties to their Move when charging into terrain features, and ignore Morale tests from Shooting casualties. They also can take Orders(Sentinels can't do this), one of which is that if the unit is killed during the Fight phase they immediately make a single attack.

So no, there is nothing else could have matched that.

Not saying it's a bad unit - Compared to the index roughriders they were outlandishly OP - which is pretty par for the course for forge world. However - compared to the units AM have access to - they are pretty much superfluous or exchangeable with a large variety of units (which is actually kind of like saying it's a great unit).