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You still pretty much need to buy core rules, codex, index if you want to run things like chaos lords on bike or mount, an example in almost every codex, and CA. I never bought a book because i am waiting for the rules to get compiled in a nice easy format, or to just use the one page freeware rules and also horus heresy. Perks of being a power armoured player i can get new blood with one page rules. I cant with a stack of 40-50 usd books before they start buying models paint etc.

The better question would be why balancing fixes are in chapter approved and not available for free without it.

I mean ... Battlescribe??

grouchoben wrote:
I mean ... Battlescribe??

Not replacement to codex on it's own.

A fix for bad rules should be free. It was GW who screwed up in the first place. I already paid once for an update (codex), why should I pay again ?

I've gotta say I also think the errata should be free, I'm not talking about printed books or additional content, but the amended rules brought in for the sake of balance, could be a nice cheap pdf.
Surely the occasional rules update wouldn't cost GW much to produce, and would certainly be covered by the initial rules cost and the spike in people buying flavour of the month models

How dare you ask a MINIATURES company to release a patch-like BOOK for free? Unacceptable!

Tech-priest, you can take this one to the foundries!

Chapter Approved is basically a patch that tries to fix a flawed product. If general rules/indexes/codexes were well written there would be no need of something like Chapter Approved to fix GW mistakes. That's why I think it should be free, like the FAQ GW released in the previous months.

Additional content in that book is just the excuse that allows GW to sell Chapter Approved, I don't know how many people would buy it without the fixes.

Probably not many, hence the extra content to increase "value".

Carry around another book?

Maybe you're carrying around the special limited edition version that's made out of adamantium, but the one I'm ordering is paper, which is pretty easy to size-adjust so you can have just the bits you want.

p5freak wrote:
A fix for bad rules should be free. It was GW who screwed up in the first place. I already paid once for an update (codex), why should I pay again ?

I agree with you to a point, however was it a screw up or was it a development phase, they have seen certain units need a bump and have had there playtest team (hahahahah JK they dont have one) test the new rules for a more balanced and enjoyable 40k.

Ok serial now, things cost money and if this is anything like the AOS generals handbook its worth the cost.

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is)

You’ve answered your own question here. People are willing to pay for it, so they’re selling it. End.

Because it's an actual supplemental book. Now the question will be if it's reasonably priced like GH2017 was, or if it will be artificially more expensive because there are more 40k players so GW can get away with charging more.

Why does this commercial business expect me to pay for the product they've manufactured and distributed? Mind-boggling.

Do we really have to go thru this for yet another decade? (Someone complains about this every time they do a chapter approved.)

Look, it's a business, they can charge what they want.

Sorcererbob wrote:
I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

As a consumer, I do expect that there is assurance of balance and stability when I buy rules,
OR that the balance and stability is a work in progress that gets updated frequently without additional fees,
OR that the rules are free.

I paid something like $80 for the Index and then again something like $80 for the codex. Let's assume that the Chapter Approved book is priced similarly (I don't know TBH), I will have paid $240 for Space Marine rules and points over a period of 6 months. That's $40 per month. It's too much.

That's on you buying the Index and Codex. GW made it clear they were "get you by" lists until codices came out, and Space Marines were one of the first books announced and the first book released.

Expect a price point of $35 USD for the Chapter Approved book(that's how much the General's Handbook for AoS is). It's softback but not a small book by any means.

Nazrak wrote:

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is)

You’ve answered your own question here. People are willing to pay for it, so they’re selling it. End.

Corrode wrote:Why does this commercial business expect me to pay for the product they've manufactured and distributed? Mind-boggling.

sfshilo wrote:Do we really have to go thru this for yet another decade? (Someone complains about this every time they do a chapter approved.)

Look, it's a business, they can charge what they want.

I think there is room for debate with valid arguments on either side in this case. Comments like these do not really add to that debate but do perhaps show why this forum has a reputation for rather a high noise to signal ratio. Perhaps it is a case that GW's vibe attracts their tribe idk.

I disagree.

GW is obviously charging money for rules because it costs them money to produce them.

Most other companies don't charge money for their rules, but get them payed indirectly from selling their product.

It's just a business decision GW has made for unknown reasons. They could also make the decision to make their models out of cheese instead of plastic, because they can do whatever the hell they want until they go bankrupt.

I think there is room for debate with valid arguments on either side in this case. Comments like these do not really add to that debate but do perhaps show why this forum has a reputation for rather a high noise to signal ratio. Perhaps it is a case that GW's vibe attracts their tribe idk.

Chapter approved started as a white dwarf section in the early aughts (Notice you had to BUY white dwarf). They would then bundle that together and sell it at a fair market price periodically in paperback.

Warhammer-Online and the ITC forums/groups have periodic articles and rules updates (Notice how this is free). They are now bundling those together to sell it at a fair market price in both print and digital form.

Someone complains about this every time they do it going back to 2001, most of us are wondering why people are surprised by this. We are even more surprised that the content is mostly free now online or sold at a reduced price.

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?
Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.
But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

It costs money to design layout and have it printed and distribution and overhead costs as well as an expected profit margin.
You have an issue with this of all things?

Plus there is a bit of a precedent:



Yeah, back in the dark ages of 2001 and the last couple years after, we had to pay money for each of them.

I would also say looking back: they were well worth it at the time so I expect good things out of this new book.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
This stuff costs money and time to produce. Why would it be free?

For the same reason that you don't pay for a windows update.

I think we'll have to wait to at least see what's contained within Chapter Approved before we can decide for sure if it's worth the cost or not. People have high expectations, but since we won't know for sure what will be inside until we have copies of it out, we'll never know for sure.

 Corrode wrote:
Why does this commercial business expect me to pay for the product they've manufactured and distributed? Mind-boggling.

Amen

I believe too that the balance uptdate part of Chapter Approve should be free. But, if they launch at last the army builder for 40k like with AoS, you won't even need Chapter Approved for the new point costs.

As I play in a club, we have agree to only buy one chapter approved for the club. Is enough for all of us.

As many people said that in 8th you need a ton of books to play, thats only if you have old models. I can play my Chaos Force only from the Chaos Space Marines Codex without a problem.
I'm lucky that I have no "Index only" options.

Like it or not, this is why people pirate stuff. Having to pay for needed balance changes (if they aren't released as free PDF's alongside the book) is a good way to incentivize piracy, particularly when if they don't care about stuff like a Land Raider VDR or missions that (if past editions are anything to go by) very few will ever really use or care about.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Trade_Prince wrote:
This stuff costs money and time to produce. Why would it be free?

For the same reason that you don't pay for a windows update.

Except the windows update is a piece of software, this is a piece of hardware.

 Talizvar wrote:

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?
Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.
But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

It costs money to design layout and have it printed and distribution and overhead costs as well as an expected profit margin.
You have an issue with this of all things?

Plus there is a bit of a precedent:



Yeah, back in the dark ages of 2001 and the last couple years after, we had to pay money for each of them.

I would also say looking back: they were well worth it at the time so I expect good things out of this new book.

That interesting I only been playing a couple years so I didn't know this history.
And I guess I should have explained things better in my OP I'm not asking for a free Chapter approved physical book. I would just like to see the rules/stats I already paid 80 dollars(between index and codex even more if you count rule book) for just a couple months ago be updated
in a way that the cost to them is min (as in online pdf as others have mentioned) and free for me sine I already paid this edtion. But from a company stand point I realize this brings in zero additional revenue.

I see both sides of the debate and I'm sorry some take it so personal like my question was a direct insult at them. I'm excited to see what comes in the book although I feel like its packaged to re-sell me something I already bought I will give it a chance.

This is my first and last time starting a thread like this.

Grimlineman wrote:

This is my first and last time starting a thread like this.

Welcome to Dakka.

So if you buy the digital version of the BRB or Codex, do they go back and update any of that material to reflect the Chapter Approved declarations?

M.

 Jidmah wrote:
The better question would be why balancing fixes are in chapter approved and not available for free without it.

QFT.

New rules, new missions, etc... being charged, ok. But point changes should be a free pdf. Who knows, maybe it'll be.