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 Formosa wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
The Death Company Dread dying to that is understandable, any vehicle exposed to that kind of firepower would likely not survive the turn, but how did you manage to target his Librarian Dreadnought?

I mean I assume it might have flown up with Wings of Sanguinius and failed the charge perhaps? It's a character model so unless it managed to get stuck out in the open ahead of all other friendly models, I don't see how you were able to target it, unless the Doredo dreads have some kind of sniper rule I'm not aware of? (Which, if that's the case, then ole!)

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

it was his mistake, he charged one of my deathwing squads turn one (some blood angel shinanigans) and wiped it out as i failed all my saves, this meant that his liby dread was the closest target for my Doredo, it was a simple mistake to make, the death company dread had drop podded down (dread pod) and no way was I going to let it get close, I am glad I bubble wrapped my dreads otherwise he would have easily wiped me, he had 2 15 man units of DC and all the power weapons in the world, lemartes, some luitenant, 10 sanguinary guard, 15 scouts, DC dread, liby dread, it was brutal as his entire army was on me turn 1, but thanks to some good TH/SS rolls from my sarges and a lot of 4+ armour saves from my other squad, I was lucky to hold him, counter charged with 5 thundernaters, DW knights and Bob came down on my turn 1, left my chaplain dread in combat with him as it heroic interventioned, killed his liby dread and most of 1 DC unit with the 2 doredo, those Ailos launchers are pretty solid!

my 5 thundernaters and chaplain dread tore his 15 man DC unit to bits, str10 thunder hammers are awesome, bob made his 10" charge so I was RR hits and wounds due to luetenent (cant spell that bloody word) they got creamed.
his turn what was left of his DC stayed in combat, the doredo got charge by his LT and Lemartes, knocked it down to 4 wounds, his sang guard charged my knights, killing 4, then were all wiped out (still within 6" of bob so RR to hit).

Long story short I got some lucky rolls, it kept me in the game, it was fun ish, but not a real fan of this turn 1 alpha strike nonsense, I barely moved all game :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just realised too that the liby dread had the fly keyword for the turn haha, so the doredo could have had +1 to hit it 1+ to hit or 2+ if i move

What are your thoughts about on using a leviathan dread in DA lists?It costs more but has more dakka, fire power and durability

Hey guys, I was wondering what you think about using a stormraven gunship in the place of a land raider for transporting deathwing knights + asmodai. While less tanky than a crusader, it can hang fairly far back then move up 45" turn 1, making it more flexible. Also, if running a darkshroud it has -2 to being hit.

It's expensive, but seems like a more...intense....way of getting the deathwing knights into the fray.

A few posts back I put my list up. I haven't tried it yet but it's in the list, so there's that

I might do some messing around to try to fit a Chaplain Dread in there (since it can also go with the Stormraven), though. I mean who doesn't like 4A attacks at S12 that hit at 2+ with a reroll?

Yeah, seems pretty crazy! Let us know when you give it a shot. I'd like to see if it's as fun in practice as it sounds in theory.

 Zidon wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering what you think about using a stormraven gunship in the place of a land raider for transporting deathwing knights + asmodai. While less tanky than a crusader, it can hang fairly far back then move up 45" turn 1, making it more flexible. Also, if running a darkshroud it has -2 to being hit.

It's expensive, but seems like a more...intense....way of getting the deathwing knights into the fray.

I am excited about trying it out! With a Crusader your enemy can pr didn't more easily where you are going, while the Stormraven opens up the table for you, and it's much harder to take down in the first turn.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
A few posts back I put my list up. I haven't tried it yet but it's in the list, so there's that

Your list is fairly similar to mine. I don't use a Stormraven, but I do like that idea a lot. It's nice to get all your clunky, ponderous units into place as quickly as possible. I rely on extra bodies exerting board control to do that rather than a transport, but you may be onto something with the Stormravens. i can even see 2 of them transporting knights and/or characters being a brutal option.

Timur wrote:
Rolls of 1 always miss regardless of any modifiers, it not possible to hit on a 1+

Thank you captain obvious hahah, I know, but 2+ to hit when I move is still good was my point


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Timur wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
The Death Company Dread dying to that is understandable, any vehicle exposed to that kind of firepower would likely not survive the turn, but how did you manage to target his Librarian Dreadnought?

I mean I assume it might have flown up with Wings of Sanguinius and failed the charge perhaps? It's a character model so unless it managed to get stuck out in the open ahead of all other friendly models, I don't see how you were able to target it, unless the Doredo dreads have some kind of sniper rule I'm not aware of? (Which, if that's the case, then ole!)

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

it was his mistake, he charged one of my deathwing squads turn one (some blood angel shinanigans) and wiped it out as i failed all my saves, this meant that his liby dread was the closest target for my Doredo, it was a simple mistake to make, the death company dread had drop podded down (dread pod) and no way was I going to let it get close, I am glad I bubble wrapped my dreads otherwise he would have easily wiped me, he had 2 15 man units of DC and all the power weapons in the world, lemartes, some luitenant, 10 sanguinary guard, 15 scouts, DC dread, liby dread, it was brutal as his entire army was on me turn 1, but thanks to some good TH/SS rolls from my sarges and a lot of 4+ armour saves from my other squad, I was lucky to hold him, counter charged with 5 thundernaters, DW knights and Bob came down on my turn 1, left my chaplain dread in combat with him as it heroic interventioned, killed his liby dread and most of 1 DC unit with the 2 doredo, those Ailos launchers are pretty solid!

my 5 thundernaters and chaplain dread tore his 15 man DC unit to bits, str10 thunder hammers are awesome, bob made his 10" charge so I was RR hits and wounds due to luetenent (cant spell that bloody word) they got creamed.
his turn what was left of his DC stayed in combat, the doredo got charge by his LT and Lemartes, knocked it down to 4 wounds, his sang guard charged my knights, killing 4, then were all wiped out (still within 6" of bob so RR to hit).

Long story short I got some lucky rolls, it kept me in the game, it was fun ish, but not a real fan of this turn 1 alpha strike nonsense, I barely moved all game :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just realised too that the liby dread had the fly keyword for the turn haha, so the doredo could have had +1 to hit it 1+ to hit or 2+ if i move

What are your thoughts about on using a leviathan dread in DA lists?It costs more but has more dakka, fire power and durability

I wouldnt use a Lolviathan for the same job personally, as you say it costs more and to me it should be in combat and not shooting, but the Dakka version is very durable and very shooty, so RR1 to hit while stationary is very good for it, I just personally prefer the Doreto dreads for that role, that being said it would team up with the Chaplain dread very well for CC duties, str 18 if i remember correctly (8 normal +1 for being in the same combat as the chapy dread), thas pretty brutal, as even T9 is wounded on 2+


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 anticitizen013 wrote:
A few posts back I put my list up. I haven't tried it yet but it's in the list, so there's that

I might do some messing around to try to fit a Chaplain Dread in there (since it can also go with the Stormraven), though. I mean who doesn't like 4A attacks at S12 that hit at 2+ with a reroll?

Chaplain Dread with 2 CCW has 5 attacks I think, and I think its aura affects itself so that would be str 14 I think, i will have to check, as for the RR i think it only gets that with 2 CCW, but you probably know this already lol, I paid a CP to make it a VENERABLE DEATHWING CHAPLAIN DREADNOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!

but only becuase I was using Bob

 Formosa wrote:
Chaplain Dread with 2 CCW has 5 attacks I think, and I think its aura affects itself so that would be str 14 I think, i will have to check, as for the RR i think it only gets that with 2 CCW, but you probably know this already lol, I paid a CP to make it a VENERABLE DEATHWING CHAPLAIN DREADNOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!

but only becuase I was using Bob

I thought it got a bonus attack too but it seems that it doesn't. The only rule he gets is for rerolling 1s to hit if he is equipped with 2. But that's pretty weaksauce since he will be near Asmodai (in my list anyway) so he can reroll his misses regardless. As for the Icon of Hate, I think you're right that it does affect himself too. I was kind of on the fence about it but it seems that he meets the conditions. Here's the rule:

Icon of Hate: All friendly models with the <CHAPTER> keyword in combat with the same unit as a model with this ability add +1 to their Strength characteristic for the duration of the Fight phase.

As for loadout, it might be good to give him the two fists with 2 Heavy Flamers so A) you don't need to confine yourself to a characters reroll aura, and B) Heavy Flamers are awesome when you are for sure going to be that close due to Stormraven deployment. I would have liked the extra attack though, since hitting on a 2+ with 5 attacks is likely better than 4 attacks hitting on a 2+ with a reroll. Or maybe it's the same, who knows?

Now for my list, I am wondering what I should drop? I need 204 points which pretty much means I need to drop Ezekiel and a unit of Sniper Scouts. The downside is less of a speedbump available and less coverage for preventing deepstrikes. Although in a perfect world I would be able to cover 54" across for 3 units of scouts. Alternatively, I can drop Ezekiel, change all scouts to bolter scouts, and take Storm Bolters on the Chaplain. I'd also have to drop the AC on the Darkshroud for a HB though which is tough because I love AC so much, haha.

I'll do some messing around. I won't be playing with this list for some time, unfortunately, but I'd love to see how certain units perform with some of the combos from it.

Darshrouds don't usually merit an assault cannon in my experience. It gets targeted early on to kill its bubble so I almost always advance it for jink.

That's a really good point. Especially since they won't be able to target Sammael and/or the Talonmaster, that would be a pretty juicy target. Here is my new revised list:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) ++

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers

+ HQ +

Asmodai

Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought
. Melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Heavy flamer
. Melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Heavy flamer

+ Elites +

Deathwing Knights: Watcher in the Dark
. 4x Deathwing Knight: 4x Storm shield
. Knight Master: Storm shield

+ Troops +

Scout Squad
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) ++

+ HQ +

Ravenwing Talonmaster
. Land Speeder: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter
. Talonmaster: Heavenfall Blade

Sammael on Corvex

+ Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Bike Squad
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Sergeant: Chainsword
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun

Ravenwing Black Knights: 4x Ravenwing Black Knight
. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer
. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

Ravenwing Darkshroud: Heavy bolter

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
Awwwww weaksauce. I didn't know that. Well, that makes the DWK on foot a huge gamble. They'd still be great for area denial, but who knows if they'd actually get to charge anything. Hmmm...

That's why DWK should run in a Land Raider Crusader. They have a better chance of getting into combat that way. And our Land Raiders are less likely to get their shooting shut down thanks to our fall back and shoot stratagem. I'll probably try the DWK+Asmodai+DW Ancient bomb sometime; it could be really good. If your opponent focuses down the Land Raider, he's ignoring your Black Knights, Hellblasters, Plasma Inceptors, or whatever other nasty thing you've got raining hell on his army. Land Raiders themselves are actually very tough vehicles; the toughest in the game short of a superheavy like a Baneblade.

Why are people still talking about Land Raiders when we have Storm Ravens now! Storm Raven seems like the best possible delivery system for DWK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swillsswil wrote:
Had my first codex game a couple days ago, vs Space Wolves no less! Wanted to try out a lot of new stuff. My list was:
Sammael
Talonmaster
5x bolter scouts
5x bolter scouts
5x sniper scouts w heavy bolter
5x deathwing w cyclone
Ravenwing apothecary
Darkshroud
6x black knights
10x hellblasters
Dark talon
Imperial bastion

I put the hellblasters in the bastion because with grim resolve they can reroll 1s without a master. All 10 hellblasters stayed alive and deleted a unit every turn. MVP of the battle.

Talonmaster was sick and was a major force multiplier for himself, Sammy, and the dark talon.

Deathwing accomplished very little sadly, though they did punch a lasback to death toward the end.

I remain meh on sniper scouts. They accomplished nothing and I'm thinking intercessors with stalkers would accomplish more as home objective holders, despite costing more.

Dark talon was great. Only had to hover near the end to stay in buff bubbles, but by then all anti-flyer threats were neutralized.

The black knights took a rough hit from 10 combiplasma wolf guard and only left with sarge thanks to jink. Amazing durability considering 20 overcharged shots.

Very happy with the codex so far.

I like the list. It's very close to what I was thinking of trying next. Glad to hear the Talonmaster was such a success. To me he is the hidden gem of the codex. Between him and Samael you have a great couple of bullies to throw around the table. Their damage output in combat is nearly demon prince level status (given he has the heavenfall blade) and they have far greater shooting potential. The Talonmaster especially, I'm not sure people appreciate that this guy is floating around untouchably with firepower greater than an assault cannon razorback... one of the most spammed units in the imperial handbook for marines. Their movement and flexibility is so under-estimated. I believe Azrael is a great character to build around but I think we also have a very viable option in Sammy.

The list I want to try out :

Outrider

Librarian on Bike (Force Sword, Plasma Pistol)

Dark Shroud (Heavy Bolter)
Ravenwing Bikes x5 (Sgt. Combimelta, meltagun x2)
Ravenwing Bikes x5 (Sgt. Plasma Pistol, Plasma gun x2)

Battallion -

Samael
Talonmaster (Heavenfall blade)

Scout x 5 (Snipers, Missile Launcher)
Scout x5 (Boltguns, Missile Launcher)
Scout x5 (Boltguns, Heavy Bolter)

Dark Talon

Devestator Squad x5 (Plasma Cannon x4)
Devestator Squad x5 (Plasma Cannon x4)
Devestator Squad x5 (Plasma Cannon x4)

Essentially the plan is to setup a bit of a backfield for objective camping and fire support between the scouts and Devestators. The scouts also working as screen potential. Then have the Ravenwing Portion do work on a flank. I went with dev's over hellblasters just because mainly I can have more of them. Though it will be easy enough if the dev's don't perform to convert two of them to a 10 man block of hellblasters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zidon wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering what you think about using a stormraven gunship in the place of a land raider for transporting deathwing knights + asmodai. While less tanky than a crusader, it can hang fairly far back then move up 45" turn 1, making it more flexible. Also, if running a darkshroud it has -2 to being hit.

It's expensive, but seems like a more...intense....way of getting the deathwing knights into the fray.

I think this is the optimal choice. It is also a much more well rounded gunboat then the landraiders.

Breng77 wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Just a note on the RWB vs RWK discussion - this unit is illegal in the new book:

Breng77 wrote:

1.) 3 Bikers 2 Plasma Combi- plasma

A RWB Sgt can't take a combi weapon. He only has access to the melee and pistols weapon lists. You can give him a plasma pistol, but you have only one shot with it at 12" and you lose your twin bolter shots from him.

Good to know that hurts especially when space marine biker sarges can get combo weapons.

Looking at this some more the RWB sgt can take a combi-weapon because he could in the index and the designers commentary tells you that you can still use index wargear options with your codex data sheet.

The Ravenwing bike Sgt can only take pistols and melee weapons (so no combi weapons). Might as well give him a plasma pistol in that case if you want him to have a bit of extra punch. Downside is you won't be able to fire his bikes weapons too which kind of makes him expensive for just 1 plasma shot...

 anticitizen013 wrote:
The Ravenwing bike Sgt can only take pistols and melee weapons (so no combi weapons). Might as well give him a plasma pistol in that case if you want him to have a bit of extra punch. Downside is you won't be able to fire his bikes weapons too which kind of makes him expensive for just 1 plasma shot...

Check the index, in the index it gives him the sergeants weapons list. Which allows him to take combi-weapons. The designers commentary allows you to use wargear options from the index with your codex data sheet.

"Are there wargear options for your model that only appear in the index version of its data sheet?"
"yes"
"Use the codex version of your model's data sheet, but you can shoose to use the index version for its wargear options"

Oh yeah I keep forgetting that nonsense. You are correct, carry on :p

Edit: To elaborate a bit, I say nonsense because they really just should have copy pasted the wargear options if they are going to allow it anyway. It just seems sloppy and a weird way to implement a change that isn't actually a change... But this isn't the thread to discuss this and in the end, it's the rules so I shall follow them regardless of how silly I think it is (and for the record I think 8th is amazing).

Yeah I had forgotten about the index options.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
Oh yeah I keep forgetting that nonsense. You are correct, carry on :p

Edit: To elaborate a bit, I say nonsense because they really just should have copy pasted the wargear options if they are going to allow it anyway. It just seems sloppy and a weird way to implement a change that isn't actually a change... But this isn't the thread to discuss this and in the end, it's the rules so I shall follow them regardless of how silly I think it is (and for the record I think 8th is amazing).

I largely agree, I can understand units being index only, but wargear just makes it confusing, and will still be a problem at some point if they phase out the indices.

I had my first game last night with the new Codex, Ascension vs Black Legion.

My list:
Azrael
Librarian
Talonmaster
Company Champion
Black Knights x 5
Hellblasters x 5
Tactical Squads x 3 (2 squads of 5, one squad of 7)
Sniper Scouts x 5
Lascannon Devastator Squad
Missile launcher Devastator Squad
Rhino
Assault Cannon Razorback x 2

Turn one he deepstriked Abbadon, a sorcerer, and 8 terminators with combi melta at me. The Librarian blocked Warptime with a CP reroll, which essentially won the game with my first dice throw. He shot, scored first blood, killed a Razorback and a handful of tactical guys and Devastator.

My turn one everything moves within 6" of Azrael and the Talonmaster except the devs. Everyone except Azrael supercharges plasma. Terminators die, Abaddon dies, Sorcerer has 2 wounds left. The rest of the very short game is a mop up, and by my 4 turn he was tabled.

Takeaways:
Grim Resolve may as well say "Devastator Squad only". Nobody else uses it. Still, they killed a lot of stuff.
Azrael and the Company Champion were monsters in melee, and the Heavenfall Talonmaster is scary good. After Abbadon went down the 3 of them (with a handy screen of tactical guys and a Rhino) mulched his whole army.
Black Knights are too expensive to supercharge. Even with rerolls I lost 3 and 2 Hellblasters to 1's.

Breng77 wrote:
Check the index, in the index it gives him the sergeants weapons list. Which allows him to take combi-weapons. The designers commentary allows you to use wargear options from the index with your codex data sheet.

"Are there wargear options for your model that only appear in the index version of its data sheet?"
"yes"
"Use the codex version of your model's data sheet, but you can shoose to use the index version for its wargear options"

Thanks for the reminder. I haven't been checking the index for wargear options.

Widied wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
Awwwww weaksauce. I didn't know that. Well, that makes the DWK on foot a huge gamble. They'd still be great for area denial, but who knows if they'd actually get to charge anything. Hmmm...

That's why DWK should run in a Land Raider Crusader. They have a better chance of getting into combat that way. And our Land Raiders are less likely to get their shooting shut down thanks to our fall back and shoot stratagem. I'll probably try the DWK+Asmodai+DW Ancient bomb sometime; it could be really good. If your opponent focuses down the Land Raider, he's ignoring your Black Knights, Hellblasters, Plasma Inceptors, or whatever other nasty thing you've got raining hell on his army. Land Raiders themselves are actually very tough vehicles; the toughest in the game short of a superheavy like a Baneblade.

Why are people still talking about Land Raiders when we have Storm Ravens now! Storm Raven seems like the best possible delivery system for DWK.

Yeah, I keep forgetting we have access to the flying dumpsters now. Silly me! I always tended to think of Stormravens as a gunship rather than a transport, but for Dark Angels they can be both since we have a strong assault unit to run out of one.

I want to get one, but I feel like with the points increase they may not be worth it, especially since the Fire Raptor came down in points. I guess if I was mainly taking it as a transport for DWK it's worth it.

Yeah the fire raptor is the new hotness. But by the time you get it painted, they'll raise its points up again. Build what you like and let the meta catch up.

My brother and I decided we're going to call the stormraven DK combo "Dumpster Trouble" lol.

I want to get a stormraven but the model is horrible, I remember seeing a good conversion kit somewhere but can't find it.

 Formosa wrote:
I want to get a stormraven but the model is horrible, I remember seeing a good conversion kit somewhere but can't find it.

Chapterhouse does an extension kit that looks pretty good.

After that, you just need to convert the turret so it isn't that horrible top-mounted bubble affair.

The CH extension kit and the twin-AC from the Dark Angels speeder upgrade sprue for a chin-mount should do the trick (the CH kit comes with a hatch to cover the top turret hole).

Makes the thing actually look good. Now that we can take 'em I'll be grabbing all of that to make a passable looking one for my DA's.

With the release of this codex, I was determined to look at the army with fresh eyes - examining every little part of it to see potential that I might normally dismiss. With that in mind I turned the exercise into an essay.
I've now finished the first draft, which to my amazement has clocked over 15,000 words. I was originally planning to post it in here as a unit review like you sometimes see in the first post of a tactics thread. With it being this long, I'm not sure that I should post it all at once, as most people will just scroll past and never read it.

How much interest is there in such a thing, and what is your opinion on how it should be presented?

Zustiur wrote:
With the release of this codex, I was determined to look at the army with fresh eyes - examining every little part of it to see potential that I might normally dismiss. With that in mind I turned the exercise into an essay.
I've now finished the first draft, which to my amazement has clocked over 15,000 words. I was originally planning to post it in here as a unit review like you sometimes see in the first post of a tactics thread. With it being this long, I'm not sure that I should post it all at once, as most people will just scroll past and never read it.

How much interest is there in such a thing, and what is your opinion on how it should be presented?

I'm always interested in people's opinions about armies I play. Perhaps there are certain nuances or options that I might overlook that could improve my play. So yes, I'd be interested in seeing it. I might later post my own opinion about each unit, stratagem, warlord trait and relic, as I find it enjoyable to share my opinions on that kind of thing.

Poast it and I'll copy the good parts into the OP

I think you should post it, but please for the love of the Lion, format it well! Someone did an AdMech tactics thread that is very well done (especially since it has pictures!) which I will try to find the link for. It's always nice to have a well executed tactics thread.

Edit: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/741040.page

To break from the optimisation, any word of podding plasma vets with jump lt and jump cap?

 Snail22 wrote:
To break from the optimisation, any word of podding plasma vets with jump lt and jump cap?

I expect it's cheaper and better to just take plasma Inceptors, together with the aforementioned characters.