Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Infantry Squads are still significantly better than the next best troop choice in the game. They ought to have just added a point to both conscripts and normal infantry from the beginning, instead of destroying the commissar in the process also. And the Chimera needs a price reduction. You don't see much mech guard anymore. Also, it would be great if the turret was optional on the taurox.

When I read all this AM apologist (MrMoustaffa has been the most honest person in this thread) I think... did Tau players sound the same in 7th? Because wow. I can understand then why so many people hated them.

Tau AND Eldar.

It was like pulling teeth to show them that Riptides and Wraithknights were undercosted.

I know, right? How dare those Guard players keep winning all the tournaments!

Oh, wait. You're all full of it.

Tau didn't won Tournaments in 7th either. It was all Eldar and SM, and Ynnari and Chaos in the last months of 7th.

But they where for the most part, OP (They had units that where from terrible to normal, of course), and I say this as player whose primary army is Tau.

Could you answer my question, ThePorcupine? What SM and CSM lists are currently dominating the tournament scene?

With Guard infantry squads being great this edition, how exactly should one go about getting the most out of them? Is it all about the heavy weapons right now? Moar plasma? Or is it just the FRF,SRF?

(Naturally I decided to go heavy on the vehicles this edition - I have all of 2 squads at 1.5k - and no command teams...)

M.

I'm not a guard player but I know how I would do it.

10 man units with a bolter on the sargent - 1 company commander per 2 infantry units.

6 of those and 3 comp commanders is the start to your brigade.

 Galas wrote:
When I read all this AM apologist (MrMoustaffa has been the most honest person in this thread) I think... did Tau players sound the same in 7th? Because wow. I can understand then why so many people hated them.

My only issue is that the stuff that is hot garbage in the Guard dex isn't getting much love, and in some cases getting worse. I'm perfectly fine with most of the nerfs on the overly strong stuff (though at this point I think Conscripts can get a bone tossed to them, as they got a points bump, a negative ability put on them, and had the most useful part of the Commissar nerfed).

The problem is that half of the Leman Russ hulls are still worthless - I think the Vanquisher is now all of 2 points cheaper than a base Russ? And the Autocannon one is as far as I am aware the only twin-linked weapon to not get its shots doubled. Veterans are getting saddled with Scion's sins - they are less durable, harder to position, and pay the same price for Plasma and Melta as Scions.

And someone please correct me here if I am wrong, but it personally feels to me that Melta should be 7/13 and Plasma should be 12/17, rather than the way it is now.

I also think they should have taken the time here to rework Scions. Get rid of Deep Strike as a default, make it a 3 point upgrade, and then cut the price of Melta and Plasma by 3. That way you get the trade off of Veterans: cheap, Scions: more armored, Drop Scions: expensive but armored and can choose their ideal striking point. It just adds a touch more granularity to the system, and makes it more likely that you will actually see a unit of Scions in a transport ever.

So the nerfs I'm mostly fine with, but I seriously think they should have tried to fix the bad stuff as well, and rejigger Scions a touch. Guard is still very strong, I just would rather the balancing/rebalancing make everything useful rather than solely make the problematic stuff worse.

I'll just point out that guard is currently a a particularly thorny faction, and focus is being put on external rather than internal balance. The goal is to bring guard into a balanced state with the rest of the game, and CA did a decent enough job of that. Except for conscripts, I'm honestly assuming the increase to conscript point cost indicates the FAQ ne ding commissars came out after CA was already at the printers. That or major issues with communication. Or the commissar nerf is going to be rolled back soon.

Anyways, use normal infantry squads over conscripts and earthshakers over manticores and you shouldn't have much issue. Which truthfully was already what many people recommended after the codex, albeit with manticores probably still being slightly better pre CA.

The only real loss guard can't mitigate in house is the weakened taurox prime, which cuts off one of the only good 3+ shooting units they have. You might see guard players run more close combat units to have something on hand for when you face someone with the RG tactic. Ogryns might even get used more.

I know what I'll be changing post CA. My 10 meltaguns will be getting swapped out for plasma. Other than that, no major alterations.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

ThePorcupine wrote:
Good god. Some people get such a massive hard on for guard hate. We get it. You're salty. Really god damn salty. You've been salty for months.

As for fellow guard players, don't pay attention to these people. They want you to self-flagellate and apologize for the rest of 8th edition. You have nothing to apologize for.

I'm pretty sure the majority of high tourney placements are still loyalist and chaos marines, but you're not allowed to say anything about them, unless it's how "tacticals suck" and how "they're not having fun with 8th edition anymore". I'm just so tired of it.

Right? Been collecting guard for nearly 20 years & the amount of vitriol towards guard this edition is worse than 5th edition. Its ridiculous. If all the people complaining about guard were genuinely concerned about "balance" then they would be asking for GW to buff conscripts. That hasn't happened. Conscripts post CA are dead. 4pts per model, 50% chance for orders to work, have little to no synergy with commissar. GW could have accomplished the same results by deleting the entry in the codex. They will end up just like penal legion, medusas, rough riders etc. Commissars which I'd argue are the most iconic unit in the imperial guard next to guardsmen are also obsolete unless you are running Valhallans with relic pistol or a Lord Commissar w/ draconian discipline. They are just as likely to screw you over as help you. Regimental standards are the go to now for ldrship buffs. Minor details though right? Apparently getting gutted every FAQ/update isn't enough.

The marine whiners don't care about details! They care about *results*. Well, results that confirm the conclusion they've pre-selected. Other results don't count.

apparently having our chatper tatics only apply to our infantry while everyone else gets it for everything leaves people salty. who knew?

In fairness marine vehicles are also priced somewhat cheaper as a result with the added benefit of working well regardless of which chapter/legion is chosen. Not a balance issue really.