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Have any AM players found their Medi-packs to be particularly useful this edition? For the cost, it seems like it might be worthwhile to keep in the command squad to heal up your Platoon/Company commanders if they take fire, but I suspect they'll likely never get used to resurrect any nearby casualties outside of the command units (and you'd probably have a low return on that investment anyways).

What has your experience been?

M.

I find them to be overcosted on the plain command squads. Ten points a model is a lot to sink into a squad that's only worth 24 points to begin with, and just makes them more of a target.

Instead I use them on near naked Scion Command Squads, backing up 10 man plasma squads. The idea is that they replace models who die to rare overheats, and ensure unless the opponent completely wipes the squad, you will be bringing back another 2 BS 3+ shots that explode on sixes and may get rerolls. That's much more worth the points.

Either that, or it makes the opponent consider if he wants to shoot at the easy kill, [Banner, Medic, 2 Cheap Specials [Grenades or The Heavy Weapon hellgun] which only draws fire away from the plasma squads that are the real threat.


I guess you could keep a Basic Guard medic around near Lascannon teams in cover? If they can bring back just one lascannon base they've made their points, but HW teams are just so fragile it's rare they won't be wiped.

Maybe following up an Ogyrn squad?

Medi-packs ignore the primary rule of playing IG: the best defense is another copy of the unit. Why waste points and plasma carriers on trying to keep a plasma gunner/officer/etc alive when you can just bring another plasma gunner/officer/etc to replace the first one?

Medi Pack + 10.

Scion 9, Plasma + 17, so 28.

That's almost three times as cheap. Given all the Scion units I'm fielding, the only way my two medipacks could turn into more plasma's would be cutting them and trying to add a whole new squad.

Granted, I could ditch both medipacks for a single plasmagun, saving three points. This is only more effective if both medipacks fail to save anyone. In addition, I've no spare officer to order the command squad, so it'd be a single plasmagun with no re-roll ones.

I'm not grabbed by the trade.

Amusing with Crusaders for the ability to keep the 3++/2++ tarpit going a little longer.

Not really, Peregrine and AdmiralHalsey pretty much have my opinions covered.
Too expensive on basic command squads to ever be of any use, vaguely useful with scions but still better to purchase another gun.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Medi Pack + 10.

Scion 9, Plasma + 17, so 28.

That's almost three times as cheap. Given all the Scion units I'm fielding, the only way my two medipacks could turn into more plasma's would be cutting them and trying to add a whole new squad.

Granted, I could ditch both medipacks for a single plasmagun, saving three points. This is only more effective if both medipacks fail to save anyone. In addition, I've no spare officer to order the command squad, so it'd be a single plasmagun with no re-roll ones.

I'm not grabbed by the trade.

That's not how it works. You're counting the cost of the carrier of the plasma gun, but not the carrier of the medi pack. The actual cost is 19 points vs. 28 points for that particular model. You can have a 50% chance to recover a plasma gunner, assuming you lose one without losing the entire squad, or for ~50% more points you can have that dead plasma gunner added to the squad immediately and able to shoot from turn 1. Given the fact that plasma command squads are a high-priority target that has to get close to the enemy to do their job it's incredibly unlikely that the squad will survive long enough to make the medi pack worth it. The more likely outcome is you drop in with 75% of the firepower of a real plasma squad, then the entire squad, medic included, dies on the following turn.

I won a game with my medic by bringing the Warlord/Company Comander back to life. Made all the points back with that roll. Even if I forgot to use the medics the whole game through up to that point of the match.

SYKOJAK wrote:
I won a game with my medic by bringing the Warlord/Company Comander back to life. Made all the points back with that roll. Even if I forgot to use the medics the whole game through up to that point of the match.

Don't think you can do that...

 JNAProductions wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I won a game with my medic by bringing the Warlord/Company Comander back to life. Made all the points back with that roll. Even if I forgot to use the medics the whole game through up to that point of the match.

Don't think you can do that...

Yeah, the way I'm reading the rules is that you can only resurrect something that had a Wounds characteristic of 1 - such as a regular Guardie. A Commander never has a Wounds Characteristic of 1.

M.

 Peregrine wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Medi Pack + 10.

Scion 9, Plasma + 17, so 28.

That's almost three times as cheap. Given all the Scion units I'm fielding, the only way my two medipacks could turn into more plasma's would be cutting them and trying to add a whole new squad.

Granted, I could ditch both medipacks for a single plasmagun, saving three points. This is only more effective if both medipacks fail to save a
nyone. In addition, I've no spare officer to order the command squad, so it'd be a single plasmagun with no re-roll ones.

I'm not grabbed by the trade.

That's not how it works. You're counting the cost of the carrier of the plasma gun, but not the carrier of the medi pack. The actual cost is 19 points vs. 28 points for that particular model. You can have a 50% chance to recover a plasma gunner, assuming you lose one without losing the entire squad, or for ~50% more points you can have that dead plasma gunner added to the squad immediately and able to shoot from turn 1. Given the fact that plasma command squads are a high-priority target that has to get close to the enemy to do their job it's incredibly unlikely that the squad will survive long enough to make the medi pack worth it. The more likely outcome is you drop in with 75% of the firepower of a real plasma squad, then the entire squad, medic included, dies on the following turn.

Whoops! In one way you are right, Sir. I wasn't thinking of deleting the medi pack and giving the actual medic a plasma gun instead, but of shoving it on another imaginary scion. My bad!

However, you're missing two points. Firstly, this command squad doesn't have any order coverage. So the plasmagun in this squad is less effective than in any other unit. Secondly, space is an issue. When you're dropping 30 Scions + 30 Veterans + SWS + Officer, + Callidus, + 15 Rough Riders on turn 1, it's actually quite hard to get all those plasma guns in key places, and the command squads provide useful objective grabbers, their role, as the cheap squad, isn't to be trying to be crammed on the front line getting off one/two more suboptimal shots.

The survivability of a single suicide plasma squad is, I admit, quite low. When you're deploying 83 models on turn one, if they've all been wiped out by turn 2, then a medi, or a plasma gun, isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Infantryman wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I won a game with my medic by bringing the Warlord/Company Comander back to life. Made all the points back with that roll. Even if I forgot to use the medics the whole game through up to that point of the match.

Don't think you can do that...

Yeah, the way I'm reading the rules is that you can only resurrect something that had a Wounds characteristic of 1 - such as a regular Guardie. A Commander never has a Wounds Characteristic of 1.

M.

I believe the real issue is how are you legally selecting a unit no longer on the table to use the Medipack ability on? Once the commander's dead, he's as much a part of the battlefield as a model in your collection at home. You can only bring back dead guys because you can target the remainder of their unit, and add a previously fallen model back to it. If theirs no unit, theirs no target.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Firstly, this command squad doesn't have any order coverage. So the plasmagun in this squad is less effective than in any other unit.

That doesn't matter. The choice is between an extra plasma gun or a medi-pack that might protect one of your plasma guns. If the fourth plasma gunner is less effective than it would be in another unit then the medi-pack buff loses its value as well when applied to the other three plasma gunnners (which are as lower-valued as the fourth).

Secondly, space is an issue. When you're dropping 30 Scions + 30 Veterans + SWS + Officer, + Callidus, + 15 Rough Riders on turn 1, it's actually quite hard to get all those plasma guns in key places, and the command squads provide useful objective grabbers, their role, as the cheap squad, isn't to be trying to be crammed on the front line getting off one/two more suboptimal shots.

Then why are you taking them at all, when you can take normal scion squads and have obsec for your objective grabbers? If all the command squad does is heal models then just take another normal squad and obey the primary rule of IG.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Medi Pack + 10.

Scion 9, Plasma + 17, so 28.

That's almost three times as cheap. Given all the Scion units I'm fielding, the only way my two medipacks could turn into more plasma's would be cutting them and trying to add a whole new squad.

Granted, I could ditch both medipacks for a single plasmagun, saving three points. This is only more effective if both medipacks fail to save a
nyone. In addition, I've no spare officer to order the command squad, so it'd be a single plasmagun with no re-roll ones.

I'm not grabbed by the trade.

That's not how it works. You're counting the cost of the carrier of the plasma gun, but not the carrier of the medi pack. The actual cost is 19 points vs. 28 points for that particular model. You can have a 50% chance to recover a plasma gunner, assuming you lose one without losing the entire squad, or for ~50% more points you can have that dead plasma gunner added to the squad immediately and able to shoot from turn 1. Given the fact that plasma command squads are a high-priority target that has to get close to the enemy to do their job it's incredibly unlikely that the squad will survive long enough to make the medi pack worth it. The more likely outcome is you drop in with 75% of the firepower of a real plasma squad, then the entire squad, medic included, dies on the following turn.

Whoops! In one way you are right, Sir. I wasn't thinking of deleting the medi pack and giving the actual medic a plasma gun instead, but of shoving it on another imaginary scion. My bad!

However, you're missing two points. Firstly, this command squad doesn't have any order coverage. So the plasmagun in this squad is less effective than in any other unit. Secondly, space is an issue. When you're dropping 30 Scions + 30 Veterans + SWS + Officer, + Callidus, + 15 Rough Riders on turn 1, it's actually quite hard to get all those plasma guns in key places, and the command squads provide useful objective grabbers, their role, as the cheap squad, isn't to be trying to be crammed on the front line getting off one/two more suboptimal shots.

The survivability of a single suicide plasma squad is, I admit, quite low. When you're deploying 83 models on turn one, if they've all been wiped out by turn 2, then a medi, or a plasma gun, isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Infantryman wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I won a game with my medic by bringing the Warlord/Company Comander back to life. Made all the points back with that roll. Even if I forgot to use the medics the whole game through up to that point of the match.

Don't think you can do that...

Yeah, the way I'm reading the rules is that you can only resurrect something that had a Wounds characteristic of 1 - such as a regular Guardie. A Commander never has a Wounds Characteristic of 1.

M.

I believe the real issue is how are you legally selecting a unit no longer on the table to use the Medipack ability on? Once the commander's dead, he's as much a part of the battlefield as a model in your collection at home. You can only bring back dead guys because you can target the remainder of their unit, and add a previously fallen model back to it. If theirs no unit, theirs no target.

Points taken about not being able to resurrect a single unit.

Not really, I've never found myself in a situation where a medipack would help instead of just bringing another gun. If they were guaranteed, maybe, just maybe I could see a point but with it being a coinflip it just never seems to work. Even space marine players, who actually have expensive models worth bringing back, don't seem to get any use out of them. They also do little for officers since they can't bring them back, only heal them, which is about 95% of the reason I would even bring medipacks in the first place.

Especially when you consider the models that get medipacks are BS3+, why would I bring it instead of another plasma for a mere 3 extra points, or a platoon standard, or really anything else? By the time you've paid for the medipack, you may as well scrounge up a few more points and get a gun worth something instead. In addition, command squads are already hurting for ablative wounds as is. Which means there's two types of command squads out there. The first is the squad full of guns, a glass cannon designed to react to a threat and knock it out before it can fight back. The second is a toolkit squad, something that takes a specific weapon or option like a flag, and just that. These squads need to stay as cheap and non threatening as possible so they can do their job. Medics just aren't good enough to justify having a squad built around them so often you'll find yourself removing him as a wound to keep your flag or gun alive.

The only possible application I can think of would be a command squad with say 3 plasmas and a medic that was tagging along with some ogryn. You would need to wait until the ogryn killed whatever they're in combat with, but potentially bringing back a dead ogryn on a 4+ with 1 wound remaining could be handy. It's so incredibly niche that I just don't see anyone bothering though.

@Admiral Halsey

Even without orders coverage I have a feeling that plasma is going to do more work for you than a medipack. Not to mention you can always pay a CP for an extra order on an officer or just straight up give a stormtrooper officer the relic that lets him dole out 3 orders a turn. Stormtroopers will usually die the turn they drop in, or suffer so many casualties that no one medic will accomplish much. The command squads are better off bringing additional weapons, or at the very least a flag, as both of these options will actually save more of your stormtroopers than the medic will.

Extra guns increase the chance of killing everything nearby that can kill the stormtroopers. You don't need to worry about healing if everything within 12" of you dies the moment you drop in. Be that HSVG or plasma, both will do more in the long run.

The flag helps because once stormtroopers start taking casualties, they run with a very worrying regularity. I still cannot believe how bad their leadership is this edition. They're supposed to be brainwashed stealth ops troops now yet they're still rocking basic IG leadership. A flag will help ensure your opponent needs to actually kill them more and rely on battleschock wiping the units less. Plus it looks cool. That said the flag is still inferior to option #1 (guns) because I'd rather just kill what I dropped in to kill and worry about healing later.

So, I did not read the entry close enough - I was under the impression Command Squads were limited to TWO special weapons - instead, any Veteran can have one.

This means more plasma!

M.