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 EnTyme wrote:
He means that the physical kit comes in twos. AoS has basically used 40k's power level system since it launched, so in Matched Play, you buy models in blocks. If the minimum unit size for Blightlords is 2 models, you can take units of 2, 4, 6, etc. With two in the physical kit, if you decide to build the hero variant, you're left with an odd number. If you want to use that single model in a Blightlords unit, you would have to pay full price for half a unit "block".

That right there. That's what I needed.

Where is this cited? I'm looking through GHB and the one Battletome I own and see nothing saying that they're bought in 2s or whatnot. I just see points listed with minimum/maximum unit sizes and that's it.

“Larger units are taken in multiples of their minimum unit size, as long as the number of models in the unit does not exceed its maximum unit size. When you take a larger unit, multiply the cost of the unit by the same amount as you multiplied its minimum size.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “General's Handbook 2017.” iBooks.

On page 86.

To be fair, there is a rule for "understrength units," but you still pay the points for the next tier; no per-model points in AOS.

 Valander wrote:

“Larger units are taken in multiples of their minimum unit size, as long as the number of models in the unit does not exceed its maximum unit size. When you take a larger unit, multiply the cost of the unit by the same amount as you multiplied its minimum size.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “General's Handbook 2017.” iBooks.

On page 86.

To be fair, there is a rule for "understrength units," but you still pay the points for the next tier; no per-model points in AOS.

Thank you. I must have entirely glossed over it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Valander wrote:

“Larger units are taken in multiples of their minimum unit size, as long as the number of models in the unit does not exceed its maximum unit size. When you take a larger unit, multiply the cost of the unit by the same amount as you multiplied its minimum size.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “General's Handbook 2017.” iBooks.

On page 86.

To be fair, there is a rule for "understrength units," but you still pay the points for the next tier; no per-model points in AOS.

Thank you. I must have entirely glossed over it.

No prob. For the record, similar rule was in the previous GHB, so it's always been the case for AOS.

Personally, I'm hoping they'll not screw this like the have a lot of the Flesh Eater Courts kits, which seem to be the same kinda deal; box has 3 models, you can optionally build one as a character, but then you're off on count for unit sizes. Given that, I'm actually expecting it to go this way, which is annoying. Even after 2 GHBs with Matched Play, it seems GW still writes the Warscrolls with the assumption that everyone only uses Open/Narrative play.

*Edit* Valander was less wordy in his explanation. Go with that.

I'm honestly betting the minimum unit size will be 2 models. I'm hoping it'll be 1, though. At the very least, maybe they can give us a reason to run multiples of the hero variant.

That's where the issue stems from for me I guess.

I didn't buy GHB2016. I had no use for it. I did get 2017 as it gives me Allegiance abilities for my Wanderers. I then just kinda ignored the Matched Play stuff for the most part.

Smart money is going to be that they never fix this. I don't even think it's an Open/Narrative play issue just an issue of them not realizing it can be problematic.

Yeah if the model comes in ones for points purposes there is no issue.

If the unit is in twos then there is a problem because those model kits are expensive and having a left over model that you pay full points for but only get one of the two models in the unit is not desirable in competitive play.

Alternatively if the hero is also released in a blister, which I'm going to doubt will happen, then it is also a non-issue.

Last, to get around it you build the hero and then you convert the second to also be the hero and have two heroes from one box.

If you aren't using points then it is also a non-issue. In my area, there is no such thing as a wargame without points though so that won't work for me if I want to play against other people.

We can only pray for the hero to be OP so we want more than 1 in our armies

I'll use PPC to avoid the issue for regular games, but.for leagues and tournaments it would be a little annoying to deal with. If I'm gunna pay that much per model I'd hope they make them individually purchasable.

 auticus wrote:
Yeah if the model comes in ones for points purposes there is no issue.

If the unit is in twos then there is a problem because those model kits are expensive and having a left over model that you pay full points for but only get one of the two models in the unit is not desirable in competitive play.

Alternatively if the hero is also released in a blister, which I'm going to doubt will happen, then it is also a non-issue.

Last, to get around it you build the hero and then you convert the second to also be the hero and have two heroes from one box.

If you aren't using points then it is also a non-issue. In my area, there is no such thing as a wargame without points though so that won't work for me if I want to play against other people.

Yep, precisely. So we have these possibilities:

1) Pusgyole Blightlords min unit size for Matched Play is 2 and hero is OP enough you want to field 2 (potentially good)

2) Pusgoyle Blightlords min unit size for Matched Play is 1 (potentially good)

3) Pusgoyle Blightlords min unit size for Matched Play is 2 and hero isn't worth fielding (potentially good)

4) Pusgoyle Blightlords min unit size for Matched Play is 2 and hero is good, but not so good you want 2 (very bad)

Sadly I think it will be #4. Which means you're left paying for 2 models and only fielding 1, or not fielding the character, or at the mercy of eBay scalpers if you want to get an extra one to bulk out a unit. However it might be a good idea to buy two boxes and build a second hero, and then sell the hero to people because everyone else will be facing this same problem lol.

What might be a bigger load of bullgak is $40 USD for one Beast of Nurgle.

I agree. As expensive as the GUO is, the real ripoff to me is the price of the Beast. It may be worth the price if you end up with just a ton a bits to use for conversions and kit bashes, though.

I'm hoping they buff it to a 100-point model at least. If they were strong mini-monsters it would dampen the hit.

I'm hoping the GUO gets a point cost (and fitting profile) hike to at least 400 points. I mean, cheaper units is nice and all, but damn, that price point is really hard to justify, and I really want one.

240 is such a steal for him anyway, I'm hoping at least 400 after seeing the updated profile with 16(!) wounds. (Note that with disgusting resilience this is an effective 24 wounds, before accounting for healing.)

Is it possible to put plague monks into the rotbringers without breaking allegiance? They could provide the cheap troops they might need.

Yes, but marauders with mark of Nurgle are better for that role. Plague monks are somewhat of a specialist unit given their extremely high offense compared to defense.

That part actually has me confused, whether or not you can take Slaves to Darkness and not lose allegiance. I think you can, but it's weird because the keywords in AOS don't work quite like the ones in 40k, and the fact everything has its own heading in Pitched Battles adds more confusion.

That depends on which allegiance you're using. If this is like the other two god tomes (Blades of Khorne and Disciples of Tzeentch), then the allegiance the book focuses on is Nurgle. This means any model with the Nurgle keyword can use the command abilities, army abilities, and spells from the book. Based on the FAQs, Nurgle Daemons and Nurgle Rotbringers can also use the full book. Not sure about Pestilens allegiance, though as there isn't any precedence. I would imagine they would be able to choose between these or the Pestilens abilities.

As far as breaking allegiance, you could add Pestilens units or Slaves to Darkness units with a Nurgle mark without breaking the Nurgle allegiance, but you would break the Nurgle Rotbringers allegiance unless taken as allies. The difference is you wouldn't be able to take Blight Kings as battleline in a Nurgle allegiance army, assuming the Nurgle Mortal requirement is changed to Nurgle Rotbringers (the requirement for taking Skullcrushers as battleline was changed from Khorne Mortal to Khorne Bloodbound when Blades released).

At any point in my mindless rambling, did I answer your question?

You did thank you.

 EnTyme wrote:
That depends on which allegiance you're using. If this is like the other two god tomes (Blades of Khorne and Disciples of Tzeentch), then the allegiance the book focuses on is Nurgle. This means any model with the Nurgle keyword can use the command abilities, army abilities, and spells from the book. Based on the FAQs, Nurgle Daemons and Nurgle Rotbringers can also use the full book. Not sure about Pestilens allegiance, though as there isn't any precedence. I would imagine they would be able to choose between these or the Pestilens abilities.

As far as breaking allegiance, you could add Pestilens units or Slaves to Darkness units with a Nurgle mark without breaking the Nurgle allegiance, but you would break the Nurgle Rotbringers allegiance unless taken as allies. The difference is you wouldn't be able to take Blight Kings as battleline in a Nurgle allegiance army, assuming the Nurgle Mortal requirement is changed to Nurgle Rotbringers (the requirement for taking Skullcrushers as battleline was changed from Khorne Mortal to Khorne Bloodbound when Blades released).

At any point in my mindless rambling, did I answer your question?

Well, in GH2017 they changed Blightkings to be NURGLE allegiance, not NURGLE MORTAL but yeah that does clear stuff up. I think, anyways, could be mistaken lol

If that's still the case, then go wild with the little plague rats. We'll have to see the new Matched Play profiles to know for sure.

I have a random drone floating around my bits box and a lord of plauges that never saw the battlefield I will be converting into a second pusgoyle IF the unit size is two. Just a thought.

If I want to run 6 (assuming the unit size is two) then looks like I'll snag four boxes and create two heroes and six normal drones.

What can we expect for a point cost for each pusgoyle? Drone + plaguebro is 73. Blightking is 36 (but being reduced) if a plaguebro is worth 10. The drone is with 63. Will each pusgoyle be worth ~100 points?

I won't even begin guessing. The guys that come up with these points are often all over the place. That is what I'm waiting on before I spend a dime because if they are way over pointed I'm not going to bother.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
What can we expect for a point cost for each pusgoyle? Drone + plaguebro is 73. Blightking is 36 (but being reduced) if a plaguebro is worth 10. The drone is with 63. Will each pusgoyle be worth ~100 points?

Well, Dracothian Guard range from around 110ppm to 140ppm. Considering that your average Blightking is a bit more elite than your average Stormcast, I would be us to be popping in at around the northern side of that range (and when the models themselves cost so much, I would hope so).

The direction definitely seems to be an elite focused army. I wonder how that will hold up in the current "horde meta" of competitive AOS, although it's not like there will be no chaff units at all; a big block of Plaguebearers will be very good.

FROM TGA FORUM:

Need to be a subscriber to watch the Vod when available but made a few notes during the stream. Just a selection below:

3 generic command traits and then 3 specific traits for either daemons, mortals, or rotbringers (so 6 available for each).
Spell selection and artefact selection also split in 3 subfactions.
One free tree prior to deployment (?) and more with contagion points (suggested that this would not cost reinforcement points).
Battalions including one of 3 GUOs (multiple abilities - one being that plaguewind increases mortal wound output by D3 with each other GUO within I think 7"), lord of plagues and blightkings, lord of affliction and blightkings, etc..
Every nurgle wizard has spell that allows you to change where you are on the cycle of corruption
GUO 340 points
Blightkings 160 points - 4 wounds each (champ has 5)


Lord of afflictions

8 wounds, 4+ save, movement 8. Disgustingly resilient (5+). Regen 1 wound per hero phase.

Reroll hit rolls of 1 for friendly rotbringers within 7” (?)

Command ability – Spearhead of contagion. Pick friendly pusgoyle within 14”, add 8” to their move (Having LoA as general makes pusgoyle blightlords battleline). Has Daemon keyword as well as rotbringer.

Jeeze that sounds pretty good. Talk about a buff on Blightkings. Gain one wound, went down 20 points.

Hmm. Sounds like sort of a hybrid of Khorne and Sylvaneth. Interesting.