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Worst case scenario, if I can't manage to pop the strat on Ahriman while riding his daemonic Disc of Tzeentch, I am still going to take a small patrol detachment of Tzeentch demons just for access to Gaze of Fate. That free re-roll is great when I am already burning so many CPs on Cabalistic Ritual.

Heck, that could be the difference between one of my predators doing 1 damage or 6 damage at no cost to my CP pool. Or a bad d3 Perils result. Or, dare I say, a big d6 smite from Ahriman

Poxbringer and bloodmaster are just the new names for the heralds we already have.

Yeah, continuity with AoS. :(

It only remains to know what sloppity does.

Can we please confirm if there is a specific keyword that separates daemons from csm daemons or death guard daemons?
Because as it seems now, the most important thing is if the Primarchs can DS.

I'm curious to see if Blue horrors have changed at all, other than the reduced invun, while it sounds like pinks will be viable again, at 5 points each, 5++ and zero offensive capacity, they are looking really weak.

That said 25 pinkies with points for splitting and a Herald providing +1 Str and flickering flames is a great proposition. Hard to argue with 75 Str4 shots with +1 to wound.

The question remains, why waste points for splitting when you can have more pinks?

Because 25 pink with points to split keeps the 20+ bonus longer than 30 pinks.

Contrarily to the AM and Nids stratagems who bring back whole units (and are close to useless, since it is almost always better to have another unit on the table), this puts models back into the unit, which has a lot of advantages in protecting the pinks left.

Anyway, deepstriking 30 pink horrors is now the official Devilbomb of Tzeentch and will be used as a complement to khorne lists to clear the screens before the assault. Bonus if you can get flickering flames on them.

Another big thank you Hikaru - very happy to see those GUO stats!

As above though. How are the DS Stratagems written - is is purely the <DAEMON> keyword that it refers to? Any further restriction?

 BoomWolf wrote:
The question remains, why waste points for splitting when you can have more pinks?

If you're using a couple of units as a screen for other stuff and want to be able to make it very obnoxious, you could reserve just enough points for a unit to split, then use them to gum up whatever was foolish enough to engage them or get engaged. If you end up not needing to split them, hey that's now points you could use on some screamers or flamers instead.

The idea is that the threat of a full split will greatly change how your opponent decides to deal with horror units, and as long as you have the points left, your opponent has no idea what to expect

Wouldn't that depend on initial volley not killing 6+ pinks? Or is the bonus for 20+ models regardless of type? If not then 6 killed, some split, your bonus goes down. And 6 pinks in 8th ed is dirt easy to kill.

On another note.
Anyone noticed the article about tzeentch links to the gaunt summoner?

Is he making a 40k appearance?

tneva82 wrote:
Wouldn't that depend on initial volley not killing 6+ pinks? Or is the bonus for 20+ models regardless of type? If not then 6 killed, some split, your bonus goes down. And 6 pinks in 8th ed is dirt easy to kill.

Since each save is resolved one at a time, with points in reserve for split killing 6 pinks would still mean dealing 6+12+12 wounds. (+any other horrors you'd use the final 5 unit slots for, potentially bringing an additional 10 wounds to the pool)

 Dedwoods42 wrote:
Another big thank you Hikaru - very happy to see those GUO stats!

As above though. How are the DS Stratagems written - is is purely the <DAEMON> keyword that it refers to? Any further restriction?

Hikaru has said many times that the stratagem currently has no restrictions and so Primarch deep striking is a thing. However I do think that will get a swift errata stamping a week after Codex: Daemons is released.

It is not a problem of restrictions or keywords on the stratagem.

The norm here is that at the start of the section you have a note saying:

"The term daemon used in this section refers only to the daemons presented in this book because fluffity, fluffity, fluff."

Spoletta wrote:
Because 25 pink with points to split keeps the 20+ bonus longer than 30 pinks.

Contrarily to the AM and Nids stratagems who bring back whole units (and are close to useless, since it is almost always better to have another unit on the table), this puts models back into the unit, which has a lot of advantages in protecting the pinks left.

Anyway, deepstriking 30 pink horrors is now the official Devilbomb of Tzeentch and will be used as a complement to khorne lists to clear the screens before the assault. Bonus if you can get flickering flames on them.

Someone's going to need to do the math on if 30 horrors (210 points) or 9 flamers (252 points) clear out more guardsmen. 45 hits for the horrors vs. 31.5 for the flamers, but the flamers have +1 to wound and -1 AP.

Vs Imperial Guardsmen:

30 Pink Horrors
15 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald OR+1 to wound from stratagem
20 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald AND +1 to wound from stratagem
25 dead

9 Flamers
17.5 dead

9 Flamers with +1 to wound from stratagem
21.875 dead






Automatically Appended Next Post:
So Horrors are better with support, but Flamers are better without support.

Do we know what the nurgle tree does yet please?

With the increased range on the flamers, summoning them might not be a bad idea. Take the base of 30 horrors (to deep strike), several squads of brimstones and furies to be the chaff and fill the brigade. Exalted flamers for anti tank and summoning ability.

A demon prince for re-roll 1s, herald on chariot for +1S and some other HQ (maybe the big chicken with 3++ relic or the +1 to smite staff to keep the chaff from running). Not sure what to take for heavy... Chariots might be ignored if the big bird is on the table i guess. Or the grinders.

Shame we can't take daemon princes as heavy if we have a lord of change, like in old book...

Overall seems like a solid mono-tzeentch build

Spoletta wrote:
It is not a problem of restrictions or keywords on the stratagem.

The norm here is that at the start of the section you have a note saying:

"The term daemon used in this section refers only to the daemons presented in this book because fluffity, fluffity, fluff."

But then there’s also the precedent where even though a statement like that is in both the CSM and DG books, they FAQ’d it to say that any models that are able to use stratagems based on keywords from both books can as long as you have one full detachment that is pure DG and/or pure CSM. Could see that precedent being extended here. But, then again, the literal opposite happened for Tyranids and GSC, so I really have no idea what goes on in GW’s head. Would be very very surprised if DS-ing primarchs was a thing.

The one for SM still stands also. BA cannot use SM stratagems.

 luke1705 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
It is not a problem of restrictions or keywords on the stratagem.

The norm here is that at the start of the section you have a note saying:

"The term daemon used in this section refers only to the daemons presented in this book because fluffity, fluffity, fluff."

But then there’s also the precedent where even though a statement like that is in both the CSM and DG books, they FAQ’d it to say that any models that are able to use stratagems based on keywords from both books can as long as you have one full detachment that is pure DG and/or pure CSM. Could see that precedent being extended here. But, then again, the literal opposite happened for Tyranids and GSC, so I really have no idea what goes on in GW’s head. Would be very very surprised if DS-ing primarchs was a thing.

Aye, the problem with only in book restrictions is the number of daemons in the index that aren't in the codex.

Nurgle focus
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/04/faction-focus-daemons-nurglegw-homepage-post-4/

Those trees are... very good.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Those trees are... very good.

Yes, because have a plaguebearer with 4+ armor and fell back and shoot is a must...

Said hello to some obliterators.

All that i see its to improve chaos space marine with nurgle + daemon keyword

zamerion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Those trees are... very good.

Yes, because have a plaguebearer with 4+ armor and fell back and shoot is a must...

Said hello to some obliterators.

All that i see its to improve chaos space marine with nurgle + daemon keyword

I mean, for 50 points, it's a massive boost to saves on these things. Depending on the wording in the end, yes, it's entirely possible they work with some CSM units which pushes them even further.

You're also intentionally misrepresenting the abilities of the tree, because it will allow them to advance and charge, or charge/fall back, all things I believe even large blobs of plague bearers would love to do, considering their speed.

@Zamerion Nice to see you missed advance and charge...........

Can someone explain the wording of "Can add a new Feculent Gnarlmaw to your army (containing 1 Feculent Gnarlmaw)"? What does that even mean? As long as the tree was paid for, you can plant it on the table? Or you have to have had one tree already and this lets you plant another (obviously with reserved points). It's odd wording to say the least.

 Klor wrote:
Can someone explain the wording of "Can add a new Feculent Gnarlmaw to your army (containing 1 Feculent Gnarlmaw)"? What does that even mean? As long as the tree was paid for, you can plant it on the table? Or you have to have had one tree already and this lets you plant another (obviously with reserved points). It's odd wording to say the least.

You summon 1 tree, basically. Think of it that way.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@Zamerion Nice to see you missed advance and charge...........

I didnt miss it. Thanks.

One rule that is good for plaguebearers, and 3 for obliterators.

I want a book for daemons. Not a book to do better chaos space marines.