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 avedominusnox wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

Thank you god! Someone at last mentioned that. Nobody says anything about Girlieman and the 12468 assault cannon shots rerolling everything.
But yeah, even if you DS Morty and he manages to charge super shooting armies like the ones already killing him turn one, he will be killed turn two by fall back and shoot the crap out of him...

Lets use a real world example then: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/01/03/preview-bat-rep-new-daemons-vs-catachans/

The lists in this upcoming game are a Deamons melee army vs a Catachan shooting army. From the Deamons list we have Skarbrand and 30 Bloodletters. If I was a betting man I would say that Skarbrand and the Bloodletters are in Deep Strike reserve. I would then say that they will come in pretty much together very close to the enemy gunline. The Bloodletters would 3D6 charge in one or two units, and then fan out to tag as much as they could. Skarbrand will then assault everything that is now locked in combat. Those two assaults would be devastating. OR the Bloodletters dive in first, wipe out the chaff before Skarbrand himself shows up to jump into the fray. Remember: nothing falls back when Skarbrand is around.

I was hyping up Primarchs deep striking, but no one is telling you to just drop Primarchs in and hope for the best. The Bloodletter bomb is a very viable strategy that can successfully tie up a huge section of your opponents army out of the initial charge with 3D6. After that, your big monsters can swoop in from the warp and charge in unmolested.

Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Because it keeps coming up:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary.pdf
"Q: What is the difference between a keyword and a
Faction keyword?
A: The only real difference is that Faction keywords are
used when building an army; when Battle-forging an
army, for instance, you will often only be able to include
units in the same detachment if they share the same
Faction keyword. Also, if you are playing a matched
play game, you will need to have an Army Faction – this
is a Faction keyword that is shared by all of the units
in your entire army (with the exception of those that
are Unaligned). Once the battle has begun, there is
no functional difference between a keyword and a
Faction keyword."

One of the guys on frontline gaming slipped up about tzeentch invul saves changing.
Reece quickly had him stop talking so tzeentch might not get +1 to invuls anymore.

 Ysclyth wrote:
Because it keeps coming up:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary.pdf
"Q: What is the difference between a keyword and a
Faction keyword?
A: The only real difference is that Faction keywords are
used when building an army; when Battle-forging an
army, for instance, you will often only be able to include
units in the same detachment if they share the same
Faction keyword. Also, if you are playing a matched
play game, you will need to have an Army Faction – this
is a Faction keyword that is shared by all of the units
in your entire army (with the exception of those that
are Unaligned). Once the battle has begun, there is
no functional difference between a keyword and a
Faction keyword."

So faction is to build your list together.

keyword is just for everything else? powers/abilities/dmg etc.?

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Thanks for the exact wording Hikaru!
This strikes me as extremely simmilar to the Tyranid stratagems mixing with the genestealer cults. "Daemon unit" is not the same as DAEMON keyword unit, and at least according to the tyranid FAQ, is more shorthand for "units in the stratagem's parent codex"
This probobly wasn't caught before getting sent to the printers, but I'd be VERY surprised to see deepstriking CSM units survive a first FAQ.

For relevence, this is the wording out of the tyranid FAQ

nagash42 wrote:
One of the guys on frontline gaming slipped up about tzeentch invul saves changing.
Reece quickly had him stop talking so tzeentch might not get +1 to invuls anymore.

If that's the case Tzeentch is dead.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
One of the guys on frontline gaming slipped up about tzeentch invul saves changing.
Reece quickly had him stop talking so tzeentch might not get +1 to invuls anymore.

If that's the case Tzeentch is dead.

what? ephemeral form is still there

ah ok then I dunno why reece shushed him so quick.

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
One of the guys on frontline gaming slipped up about tzeentch invul saves changing.
Reece quickly had him stop talking so tzeentch might not get +1 to invuls anymore.

If that's the case Tzeentch is dead.

what? ephemeral form is still there

Praise be unto Hikaru, Slayer of false rumors.

He probably had to shush to avoid talking about brim and blue nerfs. No overreacting.

The question then becomes: is <Deamon> or <Allegiance> a keyword in the Deamons Codex, or if they do not have a specific keyword at all, which would deviate from the Nids / Genestealer interaction.

@xxhikaru123: are there any keywords at all mentioned before the datasheets? You don't have to say what specifically they are, just if there are any defining Chaos Deamons from CSM Deamons.

I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

@xxhikaru123: care to share what the Sloppity Bilepiper Herald does? Thanks.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

Got a favorite combo?

xxhikaru123 wrote:
I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

It took a while for me to appreciate the CSM Codex from a World Eaters perspective, so I can understand the feeling. I'm still finding things I straight up glossed over at first.

 Mushkilla wrote:
@xxhikaru123: care to share what the Sloppity Bilepiper Herald does? Thanks.

I second this request ;-) Also, are the Scrivener and Bilepiper much more expensive than a normal Herald of Nurgle?

 Virules wrote:
I am worried that playtesters and/or the Internet will raise a huge fuss and cry about it, and in response GW will just ban all Chaos Daemons cross-codex stratagem synergy in the FAQ after two weeks (even though other codexes / armies can already do the same thing based on keywords).

The only result of which would be less options for Chaos players, and everyone deep striking in Skarbrand and Bloodletters instead. They will hit just as hard.

Honestly I'd just be happy to be able to deepstrike a GUO. But if I can deepstrike Mortarion I definitely will. I only play mono-Nurgle (DG at the moment but these previews definitely make me want to add Nurgle Daemons) so no Warptime for me as I find that to be unfluffy as hell. So deepstriking would give me much greater tactical flexibility at no cost to fluffiness.

I don't know how OP it would be honestly. Sure, Mortarion is quite strong but if you don't get T1... well, good luck getting him anywhere near CC before he's shot off the board. And even if he's allowed to deepstrike there's about a 75% chance he'll only get to shoot once with his pistol and cast his 2 psychic powers on the turn he deepstrikes (unless you do the weird warptime combo... I really cannot stress enough how much I hate that ). After that he'd have to, once again, survive an entire turn of shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

I'd say that's an advantage. More fun that way.

 andysonic1 wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

It took a while for me to appreciate the CSM Codex from a World Eaters perspective, so I can understand the feeling. I'm still finding things I straight up glossed over at first.

In 8th edition, with the amount of stratagems, auras, sinergies, etc... theres a TON of work that can be done with a Codex. Yeah, theres some very OP stuff or very useless stuff that at a first glance are obvious. But those are the ones that will be touched with FAQ's,CA, etc...
One should look for those more obscure sinergies, combos, strategies, etc... those are the ones that will define the gameplay of the faction/army you play.

 Virules wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:
@xxhikaru123: care to share what the Sloppity Bilepiper Herald does? Thanks.

I second this request ;-) Also, are the Scrivener and Bilepiper much more expensive than a normal Herald of Nurgle?

We need to know!!

To put the DS thing to bed there might be some interesting text at the top of the page of strats before it lists them out, easily missed.

perhaps xxhikaru123 if you have time have a quick read of that?

edit: also at the army special rules before the unit entries.. that might have some ruling tucked away.

lets face it though even if it is RAW after a couple of their tournament thralls report in, GW will FAQ it away for the likes of mag'n'mortie

I wouldn't mind if they deny Lords of War this stratagem, honestly. That could get kind of silly.

But let me have my deep striking Blood Slaughterers. PLEASE I NEED THIS!

 andysonic1 wrote:
I wouldn't mind if they deny Lords of War this stratagem, honestly. That could get kind of silly.

But let me have my deep striking Blood Slaughterers. PLEASE I NEED THIS!

If Guard can deep strike LOW's then so too should daemons.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
I feel the book is pretty meh or even bad on first read through. There are no "dark reapers" standalone perfect unit in there that leaps out.
It took multiple readings to really realise the combination and potential. I like most of this codex, alot.

Got a favorite combo?

pm better

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I wouldn't mind if they deny Lords of War this stratagem, honestly. That could get kind of silly.

But let me have my deep striking Blood Slaughterers. PLEASE I NEED THIS!

If Guard can deep strike LOW's then so too should daemons.

Or maybe they should try to balance towards the middle, instead of try to make everything even more broken than the previous TOP1 tactic of the game? I dont know...
We need more Death Guard, BA and DA, etc... Codexs. Not IG ones.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Fricking... AWESOME!

Thanks for each and every tidbit hikaru!

 whembly wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Fricking... AWESOME!

Thanks for each and every tidbit hikaru!

This is the dance that Magnus will be doing when he appears in front of my friends gunline of super heavy tanks that didn't get the chance to blow him off the board yet.

Deep striking primarch

#warptime

Yeah, I think I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of that stratagem. I'm thinking about using to create a line of Flamers across the enemy deployment zone. Warp in, unleash hellfyre, then do it all again if they want to go through.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Fricking... AWESOME!

Thanks for each and every tidbit hikaru!

This is the dance that Magnus will be doing when he appears in front of my friends gunline of super heavy tanks that didn't get the chance to blow him off the board yet.

You may want to also read the Tyranid FAQ someone posted, because it's very, very unlikely it will be allowed based on that as a precedent.