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 Cephalobeard wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Use this strategem during deployment. If you spend 1 CP to set up one of your Daemon units that has a Power Rating of 8 or less in the warp instead of placing it on the battlefield. If you spend 2 CP, you can choose a Daemon unit that has a Power Rating of 9 or more instead. At the end of any of your movement phase that unit can tear its way into reality - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models.

Fricking... AWESOME!

Thanks for each and every tidbit hikaru!

This is the dance that Magnus will be doing when he appears in front of my friends gunline of super heavy tanks that didn't get the chance to blow him off the board yet.

You may want to also read the Tyranid FAQ someone posted, because it's very, very unlikely it will be allowed based on that as a precedent.

I dont see anything in the FAQ that would prevent it or set a precedent to prevent it....care to elaborate?

Do Genestealer Cults have the <Hive Fleet> keyword?

There’s a blurb in the tyranid faq that says genestealer cults can’t use tyranid stratagems, psychic power etc...

May be precedent for Magnus/morty not being able to use the deep strike shenanigans. Or maybe not, who knows.

The Tyranid FAQ states it refers to "Tyranid units" as shorthand, but it implies both <Tyranid> and <Hive Fleet> within a detachment. It disallows things like GSC from using their specific Stratagems, as they lack the full requirement.

Since Magnus and Mortarion will not be viable within Chaos Daemon Detachments from the point of list building, following that Tyranid FAQ it likely disallows them as well.

Buffs from units on the table is one thing, access to the stratagems, relics, etc is another.

Though I will say the difference is as von drakken pointed out, GSC don’t have the hive fleet keyword, where morty and Magnus do have both daemon and god specific keywords...

I could see them letting it happen for fluff reasons, or just letting it happen for a while then nerfing it. I don’t play in tournaments and my local group is ver chill so it really won’t matter either way to me, just some fun speculation

Right, it's why I'm going out of my way to not be definitive here.

Just don't jump the gun, wait for the two weeks FAQ, no one wants to get jebaited by GW.

They do, however, have the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword. There may (or may not) be somewhere in the Daemons Codex that states those with that keyword cannot benefit. Or you know, the whole GSC (or even Hellbrute) debate. Or maybe all of this is for naught and they will be able to benefit from it. This is both fun and slightly frustrating speculation.

Any chance someone had seen a change that will alter daemonettes to not being just strictly inferior to bloodletters in the same role?

Yeah, GSC are unique and the keyword situation is different. I think it's a bad comparison. The only way it will be disallowed is if people whine and they FAQ it due to moaning.

They already allow cross codex cross army stratagems like Eldar and Ynarri, or Death Guard and Heretic Astartes. If they prevented Daemons from having the same mechanics it would be the exception.

drakerocket wrote:
Any chance someone had seen a change that will alter daemonettes to not being just strictly inferior to bloodletters in the same role?

They can advance and charge in a mono slaanesh army(detachment?). They also have smaller bases so it's easier to fit more of them into combat

 Klor wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Any chance someone had seen a change that will alter daemonettes to not being just strictly inferior to bloodletters in the same role?

They can advance and charge in a mono slaanesh army(detachment?). They also have smaller bases so it's easier to fit more of them into combat

Meanwhile, the Bloodletters can reroll charge and have a better damage potential.
They still are strictly better against anything T4+.

 krakjen wrote:

 Klor wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Any chance someone had seen a change that will alter daemonettes to not being just strictly inferior to bloodletters in the same role?

They can advance and charge in a mono slaanesh army(detachment?). They also have smaller bases so it's easier to fit more of them into combat

Meanwhile, the Bloodletters can reroll charge and have a better damage potential.
They still are strictly better against anything T4+.

Bloodletters have always been marine killers. Daemonettes have a better chance at wounding t5 models, less for t6/t7, and more for anything t8 and above.

And vastly better against anything multi wound. Daemonettes are worse than bloodletters have the same points and the same role. So yeah, it'd be cool if that was shifted. Part of that is quicksilver reflexes being quite poor in practice.

With the deep strike stratagem, can you use it more than once given the "once per phase" restriction on strategems? Only being able to deep strike one unit certainly limits its usefulness a bit.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
With the deep strike stratagem, can you use it more than once given the "once per phase" restriction on strategems? Only being able to deep strike one unit certainly limits its usefulness a bit.

Deployment isn't a phase.

 Klor wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Any chance someone had seen a change that will alter daemonettes to not being just strictly inferior to bloodletters in the same role?

They can advance and charge in a mono slaanesh army(detachment?). They also have smaller bases so it's easier to fit more of them into combat

the only main advantage is that you might not want to gamble deepstrike charges against an opponent with a lot of scouting units. Otherwise I will almost always pick Bloodletters.

If the new codex had addressed the major flaw of morale problems and losing bucketloads of daemon units to effective shooting and then losing the rest with morale, then I wouldn't mind marching plague bearers or daemonettes up the field. But unless we are yet to see some universally accessible way for daemon infantry to survive morale, there seems like very little incentive to take anything other than deep striking bloodletters and max sized plague bearers units banking on -1 to hit. And both of those are risky as well.

Maybe pink horrors with 4++ will be worth it if their shooting truly got better.

My biggest fear is that, because daemons are so simple and interchangeable, a lot of deamons will just get outclassed. Like bloodletters are just straight up upgrades over bloodcrushers or
not so straight upgrade over daemonettes. Which will lead to those models seeing no play.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
My biggest fear is that, because daemons are so simple and interchangeable, a lot of deamons will just get outclassed. Like bloodletters are just straight up upgrades over bloodcrushers or
not so straight upgrade over daemonettes. Which will lead to those models seeing no play.

Possible. I am just looking at a min-max top tier to decently competitive list building, there are a lot of possibilities and that excites me.

But yes, I do see some units getting severely outclassed.

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
My biggest fear is that, because daemons are so simple and interchangeable, a lot of deamons will just get outclassed. Like bloodletters are just straight up upgrades over bloodcrushers or
not so straight upgrade over daemonettes. Which will lead to those models seeing no play.

Possible. I am just looking at a min-max top tier to decently competitive list building, there are a lot of possibilities and that excites me.

But yes, I do see some units getting severely outclassed.

Is there any benefit to any of the Slaanesh units in the new dex? So far I see Slaanesh being inferior in every way. No named greater demon, no different greater demons options like Bloodthirsters, no mount options for heralds and inferior demonettes(troops). Is there anything at all going for Slaanesh players?

3rdlegion wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
My biggest fear is that, because daemons are so simple and interchangeable, a lot of deamons will just get outclassed. Like bloodletters are just straight up upgrades over bloodcrushers or
not so straight upgrade over daemonettes. Which will lead to those models seeing no play.

Possible. I am just looking at a min-max top tier to decently competitive list building, there are a lot of possibilities and that excites me.

But yes, I do see some units getting severely outclassed.

Is there any benefit to any of the Slaanesh units in the new dex? So far I see Slaanesh being inferior in every way. No named greater demon, no different greater demons options like Bloodthirsters, no mount options for heralds and inferior demonettes(troops). Is there anything at all going for Slaanesh players?

Ah, so business as usual then

 andysonic1 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
With the deep strike stratagem, can you use it more than once given the "once per phase" restriction on strategems? Only being able to deep strike one unit certainly limits its usefulness a bit.

Deployment isn't a phase.

Relic strategem is during list building, and it is still limited.

Yeah... the little voice in me keeps hoping...

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
With the deep strike stratagem, can you use it more than once given the "once per phase" restriction on strategems? Only being able to deep strike one unit certainly limits its usefulness a bit.

Deployment isn't a phase.

Relic strategem is during list building, and it is still limited.

Yes. But deepstrike isn't. Seriously...

Page 215 of BRB, "Strategic Discipline":

The same stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'.

(emphasis mine)

So, yeah, seems pretty clear. Multiple deep striking daemon units confirmed.

Before we all crush on Slaanesh, let's see what the rules are.

Everything I've heard about this Codex is complex and requires a combination / specific build to get the full value. Not used to thinking about Daemons that way in the first place, going to need to really think about it before we can say anything is truly useless.

Let's not forget that Daemonettes are still good for being very cheap. For less than 250 points, you get 30 with an icon and instrument, on a unit that can advance + charge near a character and will always count as charging for combat priority and that does the same amount of damage whether it charged or not (unlike Bloodletters) and that can put out 90 attacks per round and that can have a power cast on them to fight a second time in psychic phase and that can get -1 to hit in melee from a cheap character aura. Depending on the unrevealed stuff in the book, you might be able to seriously hurt people (especially other melee armies) with masses of cheap Daemonettes and Seekers backed up by a few buff characters.

If you assault multiple units with a melee army into a bunch of infantry blobs that each also count as charging with 90 rending attacks and -1 to hit them, you feel bad even if you got the charge off.

Here is a thought: advance 90 daemonettes and 40 seekers across the board and deep strike in Skarbrand. Suddenly no one runs away, loses any models to morale, and each daemonette blob has 120 rending attacks and always counts as charging.

 Virules wrote:
Let's not forget that Daemonettes are still good for being very cheap. For less than 250 points, you get 30 with an icon and instrument, on a unit that can advance + charge near a character and will always count as charging for combat priority and that does the same amount of damage whether it charged or not (unlike Bloodletters) and that can put out 90 attacks per round and that can have a power cast on them to fight a second time in psychic phase and that can get -1 to hit in melee from a cheap character aura. Depending on the unrevealed stuff in the book, you might be able to seriously hurt people (especially other melee armies) with masses of cheap Daemonettes and Seekers backed up by a few buff characters.

If you assault multiple units with a melee army into a bunch of infantry blobs that each also count as charging with 90 rending attacks and -1 to hit them, you feel bad even if you got the charge off.

Here is a thought: advance 90 daemonettes and 40 seekers across the board and deep strike in Skarbrand. Suddenly no one runs away, loses any models to morale, and each daemonette blob has 120 rending attacks and always counts as charging.

40 seekers are EXPENSIVE from a points stand point. 810pts for 40, 2 wound t3 units is rough. I highly doubt you would ever recoup their point totals.

 Klor wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Let's not forget that Daemonettes are still good for being very cheap. For less than 250 points, you get 30 with an icon and instrument, on a unit that can advance + charge near a character and will always count as charging for combat priority and that does the same amount of damage whether it charged or not (unlike Bloodletters) and that can put out 90 attacks per round and that can have a power cast on them to fight a second time in psychic phase and that can get -1 to hit in melee from a cheap character aura. Depending on the unrevealed stuff in the book, you might be able to seriously hurt people (especially other melee armies) with masses of cheap Daemonettes and Seekers backed up by a few buff characters.

If you assault multiple units with a melee army into a bunch of infantry blobs that each also count as charging with 90 rending attacks and -1 to hit them, you feel bad even if you got the charge off.

Here is a thought: advance 90 daemonettes and 40 seekers across the board and deep strike in Skarbrand. Suddenly no one runs away, loses any models to morale, and each daemonette blob has 120 rending attacks and always counts as charging.

40 seekers are EXPENSIVE from a points stand point. 810pts for 40, 2 wound t3 units is rough. I highly doubt you would ever recoup their point totals.

For some reason I thought they were 12 not almost 20 points >< yeah nevermind, not worth the points, wish they had a drop....

 techsoldaten wrote:
Before we all crush on Slaanesh, let's see what the rules are.

Everything I've heard about this Codex is complex and requires a combination / specific build to get the full value. Not used to thinking about Daemons that way in the first place, going to need to really think about it before we can say anything is truly useless.

Indeed and that's why I am asking for info and clarification. Because so far everything that has been revealed about the Slaanesh faction seems lacking.

Hikaru, are you able to give us Slaanesh players more info?