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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No 40k rules? really guys? Cmon. This is a new thing, no rules for 40k from them?


40k rules are now done by the main studio, so all FW can release is the 30k rules.
   
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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No 40k rules? really guys? Cmon. This is a new thing, no rules for 40k from them?

Forgeworld's current business practice seems to be centred around minimising the sales of any of their kits by refusing to provide rules for them in a game people actually play.

   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

Man you gotta love 40K people - by their farcical standard, nobody plays any other game ever

If you want 30K stuff, play 30K. If you really want it in 40K, badger the main studio not FW, they're the ones who insist only they're allowed to do 40K rules for things now.

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They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!


Funny, but I actually agree with you on this. But hey, can't be having something that's not for 40k Marines. It's like people don't even follow a narrative or anything...

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!


Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
   
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But we know why it doesn't have 40K rules. It's already been stated.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!

Except there has been a precedent set that horus heresy units, barring Legion Specific ones, get 40k rules. the freaking Carodon got some. THE CARODON
i mean, cmon. atleast try to make a decent comparison.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But we know why it doesn't have 40K rules. It's already been stated.

Do we actually know that is the reason?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/29 23:06:25


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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!


Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?


Because, and this is a novel concept but, those units and the technology behind them was supposed to have been lost after/during the Heresy. The 1st Founding chapters should have 1 or 2 of those items left over as relics because they've managed to keep 1 or 2 functioning, but 'insert 300th Ultramarines Successor' shouldn't have any of them. One of the fundamental elements of 40k is the stagnant technology from a lost 'golden' age.
Give everyone full access (and assume baseline technology) for Heresy era equipment and the whole fall of Humanity/the Imperium loses a lot of it's luster for some.

But I get it, it's another Marine release and so it 'must' be done to cater towards the 40k crowd...

 
   
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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!

Except there has been a precedent set that horus heresy units, barring Legion Specific ones, get 40k rules. the freaking Carodon got some. THE CARODON
i mean, cmon. atleast try to make a decent comparison.


Did all those Mechanics and Talons models get rules when I want looking? Serious question.

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 BroodSpawn wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.

I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!


Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?


Because, and this is a novel concept but, those units and the technology behind them was supposed to have been lost after/during the Heresy. The 1st Founding chapters should have 1 or 2 of those items left over as relics because they've managed to keep 1 or 2 functioning, but 'insert 300th Ultramarines Successor' shouldn't have any of them. One of the fundamental elements of 40k is the stagnant technology from a lost 'golden' age.
Give everyone full access (and assume baseline technology) for Heresy era equipment and the whole fall of Humanity/the Imperium loses a lot of it's luster for some.

But I get it, it's another Marine release and so it 'must' be done to cater towards the 40k crowd...


Nobody's saying everyone should have full access. They're saying that it should be available as a relic, like any other FW Marine release.

The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.

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The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.

Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But we know why it doesn't have 40K rules. It's already been stated.

Do we actually know that is the reason?

If the stated reason is "Main studio does all the 40k rules, even for FW models" then yes, at least as far back as June this year (UK Games Expo seminar) and probably earlier.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
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 Galas wrote:
The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.

Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.


Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.

If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as

 
   
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 BroodSpawn wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.

Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.


Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.

If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as

You haven't really explained why a Chapter shouldn't have one or two around outside "I don't like it because technology bad". Lots of garbage gets found randomly and if you read the fluff you'd know that. This edition literally has a Man Of Iron running around, so it's not implausible for Ultramarine Successor #300 to have found one or had one gifted to them.

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 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Being disingenuous there.
Not disingenuous, but my analogy was insufficient. I should have said Warcry and not Necromunda.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
And some things don't get to come along for the ride. Some 30K things stay 30k. We may not like it, but that appears to be the way it is. Moreover, FW don't do 40K rules anymore.

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I don’t see the issue with this being a one man vehicle. In real life we have supersonic aircraft flown by one person who handles weapons, communications, navigation, radar, maneuvers and coordinates with squad mates. This done by a single, highly trained person.

A genetically engineered super soldier with literal plugs in his skin to interface with technology that is assisted my near AI level computers can drive a fast tank and shoot things while communicating with his other super soldier squad mates fairly well I’d imagine.
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Being disingenuous there.
Not disingenuous, but my analogy was insufficient. I should have said Warcry and not Necromunda.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
And some things don't get to come along for the ride. Some 30K things stay 30k. We may not like it, but that appears to be the way it is. Moreover, FW don't do 40K rules anymore.

Why should these stay 30k though while others dont?
Its the same with the Deredeo, why do those weapons get no 30k rules but others do? Fluff is insufficient

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 BroodSpawn wrote:

Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets.

Well, that was a mistake in the first place.

   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 BroodSpawn wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.

Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.


Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.

If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as

You haven't really explained why a Chapter shouldn't have one or two around outside "I don't like it because technology bad". Lots of garbage gets found randomly and if you read the fluff you'd know that. This edition literally has a Man Of Iron running around, so it's not implausible for Ultramarine Successor #300 to have found one or had one gifted to them.


Implausible, no. Mandatory, also no.

Designs have been lost in the Imperium for millenia. There is no particular reason that they have to exist in modern 40k lorewise. Not everything that is lost is found again.

You have to understand that since Alan Bligh's death, half the Heresy fanbase seems to fret about the future of the Heresy line, and it feels like every time we get something new the threads about it are immediately swarmed by 40k players belittling it and Forgeworld because they can't play with it. This gets pretty frustrating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/30 05:04:56


 
   
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Why be opposed to 40k fans buying it for 40k? Because FE just sees it as a sale. And more money going towards FW is good by any metric.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Being disingenuous there.
Not disingenuous, but my analogy was insufficient. I should have said Warcry and not Necromunda.


“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why be opposed to 40k fans buying it for 40k? Because FE just sees it as a sale. And more money going towards FW is good by any metric.

Dubious.

I'd argue that money going to Forgeworld would be better going to support the main GW studio games. Consolidate the sculpting talent to work more on main projects rather than these little pet projects.
Yet another dreadnought arm or yet another grossly out-of-scale titan does nobody any good outside a tiny handful of collectors.

Put 'em to work finishing up the languishing xenos lines, or new AoS or 40k lines that people have been asking for for literally years/decades (Lost and Damned, Dark Mechanicus, Hrud)

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Voss wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why be opposed to 40k fans buying it for 40k? Because FE just sees it as a sale. And more money going towards FW is good by any metric.

Dubious.

I'd argue that money going to Forgeworld would be better going to support the main GW studio games. Consolidate the sculpting talent to work more on main projects rather than these little pet projects.
Yet another dreadnought arm or yet another grossly out-of-scale titan does nobody any good outside a tiny handful of collectors.

Put 'em to work finishing up the languishing xenos lines, or new AoS or 40k lines that people have been asking for for literally years/decades (Lost and Damned, Dark Mechanicus, Hrud)


I'd still prefer FW doing their own thing model-wise and since GW does the rules now they might not have such weird point levels. pet projects of sculptors lead to cool things not possible in plastic. As excellent as the Arridian Cloak on Adrax Agatone looks, the scales on the Legion specific dread, Bray'arth, pyroclasts, etc kick the gak out if plastic.

maybe the reason they might not make rules for everything(fluff reasons or not)is that the production capacity of FW would not be able to handle the influx of orders if it was the new 40k hotshit?

I buy FW for 40k due to how the vehicles/dreads etc look, not how they are in the game. If I was able to run pyroclasts in 40k I would buy them in a heartbeat, but since my 30k force is a ways out due to not being updated to 8th(I have no interest in 7th), I'm not gonna buy it. That may change if 30k gets updated.
   
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 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

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 Irbis wrote:
Fictional wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy


Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?

The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.

And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.

Yeah, """easily""". He controls and fires turret with one hand, pintle gun with second, main gun with third, drives with fourth, controls the missile lock and firing with fifth and sixth, all while racing at F1 speeds and coordinating with his squadron and taking orders from praetor. No issue at all!

This thing fluff is crap, a Land Speeder that is vastly easier to drive and only has one extra gun instead of six needs two operators. It could maybe work if it had four marine crew, not one. If you threw all the guns into a garbage bin leaving only main gun + one anti-infantry, then changed role to ambush tank killer that lays in wait and uses speed to redeploy, it would make sense. Current speed freek NASCAR gun bin is about as realistic as IG trooper firing four lasguns at once while driving a unicycle.

Also, I like how people whine about Primaris tanks when A) they actually have proper crew to realistically work, B) have same amount of guns as current, real world tanks, which work. No military in the world operates anything like this garbage, in fact, one man turrets (never mind whole vehicles with multiple turrets) were dumped 70 years ago because a single operator was working them at like 20% efficiency, and current tanks have 3-4 crew doing various tasks in turret alone...

What modern tank has even CLOSE to as many guns as a repulsor/executioner? Modern tanks have a main gun and a pintle mounted machine gun generally.
   
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Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Fictional wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy


Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?

The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.

And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.

Yeah, """easily""". He controls and fires turret with one hand, pintle gun with second, main gun with third, drives with fourth, controls the missile lock and firing with fifth and sixth, all while racing at F1 speeds and coordinating with his squadron and taking orders from praetor. No issue at all!

This thing fluff is crap, a Land Speeder that is vastly easier to drive and only has one extra gun instead of six needs two operators. It could maybe work if it had four marine crew, not one. If you threw all the guns into a garbage bin leaving only main gun + one anti-infantry, then changed role to ambush tank killer that lays in wait and uses speed to redeploy, it would make sense. Current speed freek NASCAR gun bin is about as realistic as IG trooper firing four lasguns at once while driving a unicycle.

Also, I like how people whine about Primaris tanks when A) they actually have proper crew to realistically work, B) have same amount of guns as current, real world tanks, which work. No military in the world operates anything like this garbage, in fact, one man turrets (never mind whole vehicles with multiple turrets) were dumped 70 years ago because a single operator was working them at like 20% efficiency, and current tanks have 3-4 crew doing various tasks in turret alone...

What modern tank has even CLOSE to as many guns as a repulsor/executioner? Modern tanks have a main gun and a pintle mounted machine gun generally.


The Abrams has a Main Gun, a Coaxial, and up to two on top, a Loader and Commander controlled Machinegun.

Then there is the Merkava, which the Repulsors remind me of, where depending on the model the Merkava has a Main Gun, 2-3 Machine Guns and a 60mm Mortar. And can also carry a 6 Man squad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/30 08:59:48


 
   
 
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