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2020/07/10 23:41:53
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Looking up the details the decision is pretty at odds with GW's earlier statement about inclusiveness.
Of course it is. Brand's statement was just virtue signalling.
Warhammer is for everyone, so long as you're in idealogical lockstep with GW.
It's more likely that GW doesn't want their employees or contract staff engaging in online fights with other people on social media accounts that are using their actual names/brand names for GW. You'd likely get in the same trouble with GW if you were arguing/fighting against anyone else online in a big way. That BL is generally books on commission rather than retained staff the punishment might be harsher than if he were a key staff member with a long term contract. One could argue that even as a contract hire it might be better if he'd been reprimanded than let go - however we don't know the ins and outs of the background discussion and GW might have moved to reprimand and then things spiralled from there.
GW being against racism is one thing; GW wanting their staff to start going on witch hunts and engaging in online fights is quite another matter. GW also doesn't want other staff to join in and suddenly have a disaster of having their staff "attacking" other people online etc...
Looking up the details the decision is pretty at odds with GW's earlier statement about inclusiveness.
Of course it is. Brand's statement was just virtue signalling.
Warhammer is for everyone, so long as you're in idealogical lockstep with GW.
It's more likely that GW doesn't want their employees or contract staff engaging in online fights with other people on social media accounts that are using their actual names/brand names for GW. You'd likely get in the same trouble with GW if you were arguing/fighting against anyone else online in a big way. That BL is generally books on commission rather than retained staff the punishment might be harsher than if he were a key staff member with a long term contract. One could argue that even as a contract hire it might be better if he'd been reprimanded than let go - however we don't know the ins and outs of the background discussion and GW might have moved to reprimand and then things spiralled from there.
GW being against racism is one thing; GW wanting their staff to start going on witch hunts and engaging in online fights is quite another matter. GW also doesn't want other staff to join in and suddenly have a disaster of having their staff "attacking" other people online etc...
This. the hysterical emotive knee jerk types on twitter dont seem to be able to comprehend this though.
Looking up the details the decision is pretty at odds with GW's earlier statement about inclusiveness.
Of course it is. Brand's statement was just virtue signalling.
Warhammer is for everyone, so long as you're in idealogical lockstep with GW.
Its nothing to do with ideology. if anything, he was 'in spirit' with their statement. its more likely related to professional conduct whilst being a public representative of the brand.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 08:12:15
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2020/07/11 09:01:49
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Someone on reddit received an Email from Black Library, stating they are getting a lot mail-traffic.
The tweets that got Parrot fired were in my opinion not in any way damaging and wouldn’t justify a termination. He basically defended another twitter-user from receiving death threats for making queer-coded Homebrew space marines.
Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
2020/07/11 09:51:47
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Segersgia wrote: Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
The only thing is we don't know the messages between the two parties, we don't know that BL moved to fire first. It might have been different and that the two parties fell into disagreement/argument.
Yeah there is a distinct lack of context for anyone to draw conclusions from. there is only really his side of the story so far. it appears tweets may have been deleted, which raises questions. I've had a little look for any potential offenders. not really found anything definitive. The guy has some borderline questionable politics on his thread though, which could understandably cause BL some concern.
I dont think BL are going to drop someone without good reason, particularly if it could potentially end up with a legitimate complaint against them.
At the end of the day, institutions don't usually want overly vocal politics on their employees/affiliates personal pages, especially if their name is also mentioned, and the politics gets into the nasty, unreasonable flame wars that are notorious on twitter.
Segersgia wrote: Someone on reddit received an Email from Black Library, stating they are getting a lot mail-traffic.
The tweets that got Parrot fired were in my opinion not in any way damaging and wouldn’t justify a termination. He basically defended another twitter-user from receiving death threats for making queer-coded Homebrew space marines.
Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
Possibly, but until they are laid bare for the general public to judge, no one can no for sure. If they were that innocent, surely the guy would just screenshot, or paraphrase them?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 10:10:06
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2020/07/11 12:25:29
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah there is a distinct lack of context for anyone to draw conclusions from. there is only really his side of the story so far. it appears tweets may have been deleted, which raises questions. I've had a little look for any potential offenders. not really found anything definitive. The guy has some borderline questionable politics on his thread though, which could understandably cause BL some concern.
I dont think BL are going to drop someone without good reason, particularly if it could potentially end up with a legitimate complaint against them.
At the end of the day, institutions don't usually want overly vocal politics on their employees/affiliates personal pages, especially if their name is also mentioned, and the politics gets into the nasty, unreasonable flame wars that are notorious on twitter.
Segersgia wrote: Someone on reddit received an Email from Black Library, stating they are getting a lot mail-traffic.
The tweets that got Parrot fired were in my opinion not in any way damaging and wouldn’t justify a termination. He basically defended another twitter-user from receiving death threats for making queer-coded Homebrew space marines.
Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
Possibly, but until they are laid bare for the general public to judge, no one can no for sure. If they were that innocent, surely the guy would just screenshot, or paraphrase them?
He has done exactly that. Check his latest replies on twitter. Reading through his twitter now, I see a little light politics in favour of black lives matter which gw themselves purport to support, a lot of love for his gat who passed away and some genuine excitement about the new Necron minis. Until gw deicided to end their relationship there was nothing remotely controversial on his twitter for several weeks. He claims that he was asked to change his twitter behaviour and all the evidence is that he did.
I genuinely worry that the black library is doing a bad job of taking care of their writers. I lot of complained do social media training. If gw are worried about how free lancers represent their brand, they should offer that kind of training. Whatever you think of his comments in defence of a popular community member, the whole situation has been very poorly handled by black library.
2020/07/11 12:28:11
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Segersgia wrote: Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
The only thing is we don't know the messages between the two parties, we don't know that BL moved to fire first. It might have been different and that the two parties fell into disagreement/argument.
Truthfully, we don't need to know the messages between the two parties. It comes across as someone decided to fire back by writing a complaint to GW. Would not be the first time that has happened.
The part that concerns me, personally, is where Parrott says that they tried to pin the leak of the rulebook and material on him.
2020/07/11 12:33:20
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Segersgia wrote: Someone on reddit received an Email from Black Library, stating they are getting a lot mail-traffic.
The tweets that got Parrot fired were in my opinion not in any way damaging and wouldn’t justify a termination. He basically defended another twitter-user from receiving death threats for making queer-coded Homebrew space marines.
Don’t defend Black Library for this. They could’ve gone plenty of directions and chose the worst one. And now they’ve got to deal with a major influx of strong worded letters sent their way.
He has done exactly that. Check his latest replies on twitter. Reading through his twitter now, I see a little light politics in favour of black lives matter.
I've seen nothing to support that.
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2020/07/11 15:48:37
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
He has done exactly that. Check his latest replies on twitter. Reading through his twitter now, I see a little light politics in favour of black lives matter.
I've seen nothing to support that.
Go onto his twitter, look at the most recent threads in his tweets and replies, he quotes most of the tweets that people found offensive including the one linked above.
Between "Warhammer Is For People Who Politically Agree With Us", copyright strikes and then forcing sponsors to abandon a particular smug YouTuber (who is apparently not to be named here), and now this, Games Workshop seems to be making a lot of reactionary and emotional decisions recently. I mean, GW has always made poor decisions out of greed and possessiveness, but I don't remember the drama ever being so personal.
Sqorgar wrote: Between "Warhammer Is For People Who Politically Agree With Us", copyright strikes and then forcing sponsors to abandon a particular smug YouTuber (who is apparently not to be named here), and now this, Games Workshop seems to be making a lot of reactionary and emotional decisions recently. I mean, GW has always made poor decisions out of greed and possessiveness, but I don't remember the drama ever being so personal.
I’m sorry but that is utter crap. The statement was basically, “Warhammer is for everyone who isn’t a massive racist”. It has nothing to do with politics, unless you think being racist is a valid political standpoint.
2020/07/11 17:21:08
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
He has done exactly that. Check his latest replies on twitter. Reading through his twitter now, I see a little light politics in favour of black lives matter.
I've seen nothing to support that.
Go onto his twitter, look at the most recent threads in his tweets and replies, he quotes most of the tweets that people found offensive including the one linked above.
It’s different saying I said this and seeing what was actually written.
I want to see what was written in context so I can make my own decision about GW and this
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/11 18:38:08
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I’m sorry but that is utter crap. The statement was basically, “Warhammer is for everyone who isn’t a massive racist”. It has nothing to do with politics, unless you think being racist is a valid political standpoint.
The longer this absurd wave of political correctness goes on, your chance of being labeled a racist approaches 100%. For instance, would Games Workshop welcome me as a customer if they knew that I had some Mrs. Butterworth brand syrup in the cabinet? Or that I drank white milk? Or slept in a master bedroom? Ate Uncle Ben rice with a side of Goya black beans? That I don't have a problem with "flesh colored" Band-Aids? That I don't think a statue of Abraham Lincoln should be destroyed? What about my completely unreasonable belief that Orcs are not racial stereotypes and Wizards of the Coast doesn't need to put a disclaimer on every D&D module over 5 years old? Am I racist now?
Where's the racism line that Games Workshop is okay with? Is not favoring the new inclusion requirements for the Oscars enough for Games Workshop to not sell me Slaanesh cultists? Saw an article the other day that MATH is now racist! Does actually playing a Games Workshop game, and using math, now mean that I am too racist to play Games Workshop games? When everything is considered racist, coming out against racism is, in fact, a declaration against everything.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I’m sorry but that is utter crap. The statement was basically, “Warhammer is for everyone who isn’t a massive racist”. It has nothing to do with politics, unless you think being racist is a valid political standpoint.
The longer this absurd wave of political correctness goes on, your chance of being labeled a racist approaches 100%. For instance, would Games Workshop welcome me as a customer if they knew that I had some Mrs. Butterworth brand syrup in the cabinet? Or that I drank white milk? Or slept in a master bedroom? Ate Uncle Ben rice with a side of Goya black beans? That I don't have a problem with "flesh colored" Band-Aids? That I don't think a statue of Abraham Lincoln should be destroyed? What about my completely unreasonable belief that Orcs are not racial stereotypes and Wizards of the Coast doesn't need to put a disclaimer on every D&D module over 5 years old? Am I racist now?
Where's the racism line that Games Workshop is okay with? Is not favoring the new inclusion requirements for the Oscars enough for Games Workshop to not sell me Slaanesh cultists? Saw an article the other day that MATH is now racist! Does actually playing a Games Workshop game, and using math, now mean that I am too racist to play Games Workshop games? When everything is considered racist, coming out against racism is, in fact, a declaration against everything.
>derides other viewpoints as 'emotional'
>froths at the mouth over a company not wanting their IP to be used as a proxy by xenophobic authoritarians
>derides other viewpoints as 'emotional'
>froths at the mouth over a company not wanting their IP to be used as a proxy by xenophobic authoritarians
Good job Sqoqs
Whatever emotion you are seeing in my post, you are putting there yourself. Try rereading my post with a more proferssorly tone of detached, eye rolling bemusement, maybe with a hint of exhaustion. If you can't laugh at master bedrooms being considered racist, then there truly is no salvation for the human race.
Similarly, I find the idea that Games Workshop is staunchly anti-xenophobic authoritarians, given that their entire setting is literally filled with xenophobic authoritarians - especially when political correctness is entirely about guilt by association. It's like they are suggesting that people who read their fiction aren't welcome to read their fiction. And that's kind of funny.
>derides other viewpoints as 'emotional'
>froths at the mouth over a company not wanting their IP to be used as a proxy by xenophobic authoritarians
Good job Sqoqs
Whatever emotion you are seeing in my post, you are putting there yourself. Try rereading my post with a more proferssorly tone of detached, eye rolling bemusement, maybe with a hint of exhaustion. If you can't laugh at master bedrooms being considered racist, then there truly is no salvation for the human race.
Similarly, I find the idea that Games Workshop is staunchly anti-xenophobic authoritarians, given that their entire setting is literally filled with xenophobic authoritarians - especially when political correctness is entirely about guilt by association. It's like they are suggesting that people who read their fiction aren't welcome to read their fiction. And that's kind of funny.
And I was beginning to think I was the only one who sees that the whole 40k imperium is a giant xenophobic empire of nastyness. It’s kind of what makes the setting so grimdark and interesting. The whole let’s insert pc culture into 40k is bonkers. The imperium is probably the most likely fictional institution to practise racism or any form of ‘ism. The whole system is based on hatred of anything and everyone. It’s supposed to be a nightmare society.
>derides other viewpoints as 'emotional'
>froths at the mouth over a company not wanting their IP to be used as a proxy by xenophobic authoritarians
Good job Sqoqs
Whatever emotion you are seeing in my post, you are putting there yourself. Try rereading my post with a more proferssorly tone of detached, eye rolling bemusement, maybe with a hint of exhaustion. If you can't laugh at master bedrooms being considered racist, then there truly is no salvation for the human race.
And I was beginning to think I was the only one who sees that the whole 40k imperium is a giant xenophobic empire of nastyness. It’s kind of what makes the setting so grimdark and interesting. The whole let’s insert pc culture into 40k is bonkers. The imperium is probably the most likely fictional institution to practise racism or any form of ‘ism. The whole system is based on hatred of anything and everyone. It’s supposed to be a nightmare society.
40kis supposed to be dystopic, it's an example of why that sort of ideology is a failure. But when folks in the underbelly of gaming start calling a certain political leader "God Emperor" and photoshopping his face onto GW's work it's not a surprise that the company doesn't want to be associated with real world vileness.
Honestly it's to the point where satire is dead because no matter how grim, dystopic and horrible you make a setting there's always someone who'll want to use it as a proxy for their beliefs.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I’m sorry but that is utter crap. The statement was basically, “Warhammer is for everyone who isn’t a massive racist”. It has nothing to do with politics, unless you think being racist is a valid political standpoint.
The longer this absurd wave of political correctness goes on, your chance of being labeled a racist approaches 100%. For instance, would Games Workshop welcome me as a customer if they knew that I had some Mrs. Butterworth brand syrup in the cabinet? Or that I drank white milk? Or slept in a master bedroom? Ate Uncle Ben rice with a side of Goya black beans? That I don't have a problem with "flesh colored" Band-Aids? That I don't think a statue of Abraham Lincoln should be destroyed? What about my completely unreasonable belief that Orcs are not racial stereotypes and Wizards of the Coast doesn't need to put a disclaimer on every D&D module over 5 years old? Am I racist now?
Where's the racism line that Games Workshop is okay with? Is not favoring the new inclusion requirements for the Oscars enough for Games Workshop to not sell me Slaanesh cultists? Saw an article the other day that MATH is now racist! Does actually playing a Games Workshop game, and using math, now mean that I am too racist to play Games Workshop games? When everything is considered racist, coming out against racism is, in fact, a declaration against everything.
I assume this is some kind of satire ... because there’s no way anyone could type this and expect it to be taken seriously.
the Ultramarine special edition Indomitus sold out --- sot the days theme -- but at the time of typing the Necron version is still available.
..la plus ca change there eh ?
Ordered the regular version of the book and the warriors & warlords book too.
Kinda tempted by the softcover version of Beastgrave as I generally dig Mr Werner's stuff a fair bit, dunno quite what it is but always found stories featuring dryads/similar heavily to never quite work for me.
The blurb seems to suggest that some/much of the novel is from the beastman POV, is that so ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
40kis supposed to be dystopic, it's an example of why that sort of ideology is a failure. But when folks in the underbelly of gaming start calling a certain political leader "God Emperor" and photoshopping his face onto GW's work it's not a surprise that the company doesn't want to be associated with real world vileness.
How is making Trump memes related to racism?
Honestly it's to the point where satire is dead because no matter how grim, dystopic and horrible you make a setting there's always someone who'll want to use it as a proxy for their beliefs.
Satire is dead because people can't comprehend irony anymore, in the same way that a fish can't comprehend the ocean. If you spend your whole life soaking it, you won't see it, even if someone points it out.
Besides, I'm not sure Black Library elevates itself quite to the level of satire. Judge Dredd and a lot of the material from 2000AD that GW copied were satirical, but GW's version lacked any of the subtext that made it an ironic commentary on anything. Some of it remained just by virtue of the totality of what GW cribbed.
2020/07/11 20:34:23
Subject: Black Library News & Rumour thread: Warhammer Crime
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
