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 Sim-Life wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
The Bad:
-Book bloat. While a result of the rapid explosion into 8th, it's a hell of a lot of books required - particularly for TO's etc., in a very short time span.

An average army uses three books now: BRB, Chapter Approved and the Codex or Index. Have you taken a look at what the first two actually contain and how many expansion rule books are basically included in those? If you're still using an Index you have about 15-20 books combined in those three books.

*edit* Just ask any Necron player how they see the release speed. The local Necron players here are crying for faster releases all the time since they're still waiting for theirs.

I'm a necron player. I'm just glad I won't be waiting more than a year. Next time they whine ask of they'd rather they'd been on of the first books that were basically just the Index with some half-assed stratagems and generic dynasty traits.

Y'know, that's funny - my primary army is Space Marines, and I'm quite happy - all I need is Vulkan showing up. So are the Death Guard players in my local group. But we're not playing tournament-level lists at all, I don't even own a Robby, and our Eldar players don't go with the -2 toHit shenanigans either.

I'm still enjoying it as much as when it first came out, maybe more. Still enjoying collecting, playing, and adding to my armies.

Pretty good, all things considered.

I don't like T1 reserves or the rules for deep strike. Deep Strike is way too powerful for cost.

The other thing I'm not a fan of are 1/army things, because I just think that's poor design.


The game has achieved a fairly good balance of power between shooting and close-quarters, so both have a distinct tactical role, and I do feel that overall the level of tactics has been improved dramatically by the greater control we have over our armies.

7th was a shitshow, especially with all the random tables of crap, so I'm fairly pleased with 8th. There are some changes I'd make, but otherwise i'm having a lot of fun.

Love it. It has its problems, and could be better, but compared to most of the game since about the 5th Ed GK release I feel like the game is in as good a place as it ever has been or better.

Other than the brand new player in our group who just started in 8th edition we seem to be pretty bored of it, rarely getting in more than 2-3 games a month. When the index's came out most of our games came down to the last turn, now, generally it's over by turn 2 or 3 and 90% most the time whoever went first won (need to introduce alternating turns like in Necromunda) we decided to use it as a place holder until necromunda came out when the dex's dropped... then Necromunda was released. and I realized I had to buy a box set with 2 ganngs I didnt care about THEN purchase another rulebook outside of that to use 3D terrain and I possibly download something to use all the legacy gangs? I said feth it and printed the community edition for free.

Maybe when GW introduces BFG I'll create a fun campaign for us to incorporate both but like it's been stated earlier. I'll be using 40k as a fun beer and pretzel fluff match and Necromunda CE as my fun balanced story driven missions.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

It could be your playgroup. I am a big Tyranid fluff player and I've been quite happy with my local scene. Out of 45 games I've played since August, I've won 19. Before 8th I had only won 2 games with my bugs in two years.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

Has the most dominating codex (only Tyranids are close) in 8th and still isn't happy.

Over all with well over 30 games in i'm having a great time still.

Tho honestly my Corsairs were the penitential of fun in 7th (troop heavy not the Formation spam crap) so i'll always love 7th for that. I'd still rather have 8th.

I can't stand how ineffective lascannons were in 7th. Bring on our new 8th ed overlords!

 supreme overlord wrote:
Other than the brand new player in our group who just started in 8th edition we seem to be pretty bored of it, rarely getting in more than 2-3 games a month. When the index's came out most of our games came down to the last turn, now, generally it's over by turn 2 or 3 and 90% most the time whoever went first won (need to introduce alternating turns like in Necromunda) we decided to use it as a place holder until necromunda came out when the dex's dropped... then Necromunda was released. and I realized I had to buy a box set with 2 ganngs I didnt care about THEN purchase another rulebook outside of that to use 3D terrain and I possibly download something to use all the legacy gangs? I said feth it and printed the community edition for free.

Maybe when GW introduces BFG I'll create a fun campaign for us to incorporate both but like it's been stated earlier. I'll be using 40k as a fun beer and pretzel fluff match and Necromunda CE as my fun balanced story driven missions.

I have to ask, though, in all honesty...has 40K ever been anything beyond beer and pretzels fluff matches? Even in its crunchiest mode...that's all I've ever seen it as. It's never been hugely deep or strategic, etc.

Compared to what?

I think it's a step in the right direction. There are still some big holes in the rules and True Line of Sight is still a disaster, but the game has improved enough that I finally invested in it after reading through the free rules.

In the Metas near me it's gutted the Warmachine and HH communities so I know I'm not alone. It's nice to be able to play a game that's so easy to pick up. I look forward to more 8th ed games and think things will get even better with 9th.

Martel732 wrote:
Compared to what?

Name any other tabletop mini game.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why wouldn't it? Because even the explosive shells fired by the Accelerator Cannon have a good chance of penetrating a Land Raider's armour, and I doubt houses are built as durably. And yes, it could cause the ammo to veer off course - that's among the abstractions that the +1 armour value from cover is supposed to represent: intervening terrain interfering with a shot.

I play "fluffy" too and "fluffily" my superheavy company commanders would gladly fire through windows with their huge cannons, even if it risked bringing the building down, if they were truly firing at something that warranted such firepower.

That's the problem with playing "fluffy." I consider myself a fluffy player, and I'm absolutely fine with the way LOS works in 8th, because I understand that there's far, far more going on on the battlefield than the models represent.

And see, I'm just not keen on the 'shooting through walls' thing. Sorry, man, but I wouldn't enjoy your playstyle.

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

Has the most dominating codex (only Tyranids are close) in 8th and still isn't happy.

You really believe it matters whether he wins or not if he isn't enjoying the game?

Is gunline guard somehow not fluffy?

That's what the best part of the Imperial Guard codex is, compared to some other codecies: what's good is also fluffy. And what's fluffy is also fairly decent.

Even an armored battlegroup with a moderate amount of supporting infantry is fairly decent enough to play.


There are a massive number of ways to build a viable Imperial Guard army.

 amanita wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

Has the most dominating codex (only Tyranids are close) in 8th and still isn't happy.

You really believe it matters whether he wins or not if he isn't enjoying the game?

He is complaining about going blobguard and artillery, when IG is by a big margin the most flexible in army-building of all the factions. A full Leman Russ or Baneblade army will be be totally competitive and playable, maybe not at the level of the most OP IG builds, Chaos-soup builds, etc..., but leagues ahead most of the rest of the armies of the game.

guard can go blob infantry with supporting orders, elite infantry with plasma, Full tank companies. Mounted Infantry....Try coming to the Ork side where its Boyz with supporting characters or Boyz and a squiggoth

I love it as much as I did RT. but then again I hadn't played for like 25yrs so...

I do like how fast paced it feels, battlefield actions play out reasonably correct (for a game).

Everything can kill everything kicks ass.

Not a big fan of the smite phase though. Beta Rules might help this.

 Galas wrote:

 amanita wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

Has the most dominating codex (only Tyranids are close) in 8th and still isn't happy.

You really believe it matters whether he wins or not if he isn't enjoying the game?

He is complaining about going blobguard and artillery, when IG is by a big margin the most flexible in army-building of all the factions. A full Leman Russ or Baneblade army will be be totally competitive and playable, maybe not at the level of the most OP IG builds, Chaos-soup builds, etc..., but leagues ahead most of the rest of the armies of the game.

What part of 'the rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated' did you not understand?

 amanita wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 amanita wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I stopped playing. The rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated, and unless I invest in blobguard and artillery I might as well not turn up.
It sucks to be a fluff player :/

Has the most dominating codex (only Tyranids are close) in 8th and still isn't happy.

You really believe it matters whether he wins or not if he isn't enjoying the game?

He is complaining about going blobguard and artillery, when IG is by a big margin the most flexible in army-building of all the factions. A full Leman Russ or Baneblade army will be be totally competitive and playable, maybe not at the level of the most OP IG builds, Chaos-soup builds, etc..., but leagues ahead most of the rest of the armies of the game.

What part of 'the rules are daft and oversimplified whilst still managing to be bloated' did you not understand?

I was answering to the part where he complaints about being a "fluff" player and the neccesity to go blobguard or don't even play at all. And thats just nonsense for IG.

SemperMortis wrote:
guard can go blob infantry with supporting orders, elite infantry with plasma, Full tank companies. Mounted Infantry....Try coming to the Ork side where its Boyz with supporting characters or Boyz and a squiggoth

You are comparing a codex to an index. The codex will assuredly be better 99% of the time. Everyone knows Orks are in a bad spot right now but they are running their index and no codex, and GW is very aware of the issues with Orks right now. I really don't see them being bottom tier after the codex drops. The codex drops have been pretty good so far in terms of overall power. It's never going to be perfect but it's been quite good. Every army is able to compete to a degree. The worst codex so far is pretty decisively Grey Knights, BUT they are made primarily as an anti-daemon army. They do it quite well and I really feel they are an absolutely beast detachment army for your primary army.

8th edition killed my gaming group.

Or everyone lost interest at exactly the same time!

Hoodwink wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
guard can go blob infantry with supporting orders, elite infantry with plasma, Full tank companies. Mounted Infantry....Try coming to the Ork side where its Boyz with supporting characters or Boyz and a squiggoth

You are comparing a codex to an index. The codex will assuredly be better 99% of the time. Everyone knows Orks are in a bad spot right now but they are running their index and no codex, and GW is very aware of the issues with Orks right now. I really don't see them being bottom tier after the codex drops. The codex drops have been pretty good so far in terms of overall power. It's never going to be perfect but it's been quite good. Every army is able to compete to a degree. The worst codex so far is pretty decisively Grey Knights, BUT they are made primarily as an anti-daemon army. They do it quite well and I really feel they are an absolutely beast detachment army for your primary army.

I don't know about that. Having played against Sisters and Drukhari, I'd say they are both better than base space marines. Maybe Space Wolves, too. All three are better than GK.

I’ve not touched 40k since 8th was announced, it is not the game I wanted and does not appeal to me in any way, those that like 8th your entitled to enjoy what you like, same as those that don’t like it. I now exclusively play fantasy and Horus Heresy because those are the games I enjoy, I just wish games Workshop would support both systems, 7th and 8th, all they need is one guy in the office to make a 7th edition datasheet for all the new models, release them for free and those of us that want to play 7th and enjoy the lore can buy the new models and codexs and play the game we want without interfering with the “best edition of them all”. One guy is all it would take.

I've given 8th a fair shake but honestly I find the game boring and lacking in "depth". Using cover/terrain use to be one of the more interesting mechanics in 40k but now it can go entire games without a single cover save modifier or terrain rule coming into play which really removes some of the variety in how movement and combat play out. In general though most things feel too similar and it tends to just come down to just rolling a lot of dice and shuffling models around without a whole lot of concern about tactics or strategy. Also haven't played a game to a mission completion because it always ends with a tabling or surrender when tabling is a forgone conclusion.

Sad part is that most of the games I played of 8th where victories for me but instead of feeling rewarding it just felt bland to play. I honestly enjoy playing 7th edition Orks vs Eldar than playing a game of 8th.

I’m enjoying it. Played more games already than since I jumped back into 7th a couple of years prior. There are a few issues, but most of them are avoided by not playing with absolute melts, and the others don’t really affect my enjoyment of the game enough to lose sleep over. I’m interested to see how GW do at ironing things out given their new-found enthusiasm for community engagement.

TeAXIIIT13 wrote:
... all they need is one guy in the office to make a 7th edition datasheet for all the new models, release them for free and those of us that want to play 7th...

To be completely fair, if 7th edition had Datasheets it would help. I do NOT miss flipping through 3-4 books to play a game. I like being able to look at one page and see everything a squad or model can do.

But 7th had its busted elements, too.

There was no point at all in putting certain gear on units for melee combat. Going up against Eldar? Pfft. Don't bother.

A Leman Russ tank had 4 different weapon systems manned by 4 different crew members, and they all had to fire at the same target. Which meant nearly every vehicle in the game had to be mono-built for a purpose.

Deep Strike was a gamble and almost pointless sometimes. Basically a suicide harassment attack at best.

Pancakey wrote:
8th edition killed my gaming group.

Or everyone lost interest at exactly the same time!

Thats amazing.
Some have higher standards to a tabletop than others.
Most players in our group like the 8th ed. Their standards seem not to be rather high. Its just like throwing an army together, find an opponent, and then choose the mission.

8e is doing really well here in Lisbon. There are games every Friday, at least!