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I agree that the teaser actually had a negative effect of my perception of this reveal. They over-hyped what we should expect and massively under-delivered.
I also agree that the teaser was only very vaguely related to Custodes and would have made much more sense for a Xenos reveal. A big waste really.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Did anyone in the CA get points changes? I don't think they did.
The problem with the necrons isn't points. The problem is that their current loadout is mediocre. They have no mobility options, no easy access to heavy hitters, and not much in terms of versatility. You can make them 1 point each. That still wouldn't address the core problems with the necron list.
The CA help alleviates that by giving them a mobility option and proper stratagems.
Fam every faction in CA, apart from Necrons and Tau, had points changes. Every. Faction.
I don't presume what does and doesn't make Necrons work, I just know what was (or wasn't) in CA and why players of such factions are right to be irritated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/06 20:11:53
2018/01/06 20:21:01
Subject: Re:How do you feel about the new AC codex?
Looking forward to playing against them as one of my friends has a custodes army for HH he can use. However I'd have liked to see another xenos codex before yet another imperial one.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I agree that the teaser actually had a negative effect of my perception of this reveal. They over-hyped what we should expect and massively under-delivered.
I also agree that the teaser was only very vaguely related to Custodes and would have made much more sense for a Xenos reveal. A big waste really.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Did anyone in the CA get points changes? I don't think they did. The problem with the necrons isn't points. The problem is that their current loadout is mediocre. They have no mobility options, no easy access to heavy hitters, and not much in terms of versatility. You can make them 1 point each. That still wouldn't address the core problems with the necron list.
The CA help alleviates that by giving them a mobility option and proper stratagems.
Fam every faction in CA, apart from Necrons and Tau, had points changes. Every. Faction.
I don't presume what does and doesn't make Necrons work, I just know what was (or wasn't) in CA and why players of such factions are right to be irritated.
Oh I see now. The changes are in the back of the book instead of being in the relevant army sections. Where they should have been Hopefully this means that the Necron and Tau update is soon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/06 20:35:05
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Having picked up the Talons of the Emperor box recently the idea of newer rules for these dudes is nice - a lot depends just what they get in the book though for how useful it is.
Given the production issues at GW currently I doubt there will be a large number of new kits - we know there is a character, likely also a more generic HQ as well, the video shows jet bikes - what they really need though is another actual infantry type box.
Wondering if GW have even tried to give this lot an army, or if they are designed to run alongside others?
Will certainly be getting some of the jet bikes though, just because
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Also ignores the currently existing mono-faction armies that are in the game.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Oh? Custodes for elite h2h power, IG for chaff and shooting. Seems pretty strong army to me.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Oh? Custodes for elite h2h power, IG for chaff and shooting. Seems pretty strong army to me.
Not to go off topic in my own thread, but this is a very bad way to play 40k.
The game rewards doubling down on your strengths. It is a gosh darn terrible idea to have a handful of units that forfill multiple functions and having a hugely expensive custodes unit in a AM army is a terrible idea.
How many people do you see sticking Grey Knights in? Vanguard Space Marines? You can't even find any competative AM lists that have Ogyrns in.
There's is nothing a custodes army can offer me to soup in. I'm not even sure what armies would benefit. And while I see a lot of 'Yay, I get to use my 30k models in 40k' [And while I resent you for the effect it's having on 40k, I can certainly understand feeling you've got double the value of your money, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to be excited.] I've not seen anyone go, 'Yesss! Being able to soup in some Custodes is going to make my list killer.' Even in fluffy games I mean... How many fluff battles take place in the Imperial Palace?
And don't give me GW's new crap of, 'And now we've decided to send the custodes out into the galaxy and abandon terra!' Because that's Primaris level of stupidity, even for the Imperium.
It's one of the reasons why xenos can suck. The imperium players have a huge variety to play with in tournaments (look at the assassin girlyman lists that were winning in the first tournaments) that give them options an Ork player couldn't have. Even tyranid players would use genestealer baneblades (and still do). In a way this allows players to expand, collect cool things, have cool fantasy battles and have a good looking shelf. In another way it's a system designed to make gw more money, cuts out the options for xenos factions that are given only one play style and dilutes the armies until nothing feels unique.
In the lore if a guardsman ever even caught eye of a marine it would be as if the emperor himself was walking among them. It's an extremely rare sight that only a few lucky soldiers had. In the game Girly man the pappa smurf marine is leading conscripts into battle. XD At some point you no longer distinguish them and the mythology of 40k just blends together. It's why I personally hate to use the term xenos but i'm forced to do so... it's a imperium propaganda word that blends so many unique and colourful factions into a single pot! It's an Us vs Them kinda word and just highlights modern Gw's tactics of making sport for imperium players (even though the xenos saying has been around for a while).
On a side note, I believe having 30k models in 40k is a good idea. I myself play with 30k models exclusively in 40k as proxies because I prefer the design. But you need to have a faction fully fleshed out before you separate them. Sisters should have complimented the faction (making more lore sense) and given the auxiliary imperium players a fully fleshed out army to play with rather than having to bulk their Golden Mehriens with other factions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/06 22:59:15
On the fence. On one hand if you can stick rules for the Forge World models and some kind of counter to Smite-spam into 8th they don't really need new plastics, but on the other hand I really like the pictures I've seen of the plastic jetbikes.
Oh I see now. The changes are in the back of the book instead of being in the relevant army sections. Where they should have been Hopefully this means that the Necron and Tau update is soon.
That was the hope, but we got bumped behind daemons and now custodes, so a lot of tau and Necron players are getting discouraged. The game is better with good antagonist, but GW seems to think that good antagonist are exactly like the protagonist but with different colored power armor.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
40k: Where you have Space Marines (and Space Marines inside Space Marines), Viking Space Marines, Vampire Space Marines, Paladin Space Marines (some inside bigger Space Marines), Ghost Space Marines, Operator Space Marines, 9 flavors of Spiky Space Marine, one flavor of Secretly Spiky Space Marine, and two distinct types of Space Marine Space Marine. I do not await the possibility of Primaris Custodes, aka Space Marine Space Marine Space Marines.
So much for streamlining.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 00:27:03
Fafnir wrote: Quite bitter. The level of neglect so many factions are getting while GW decides to introduce a wholly unnecessary new faction is a real kick in the head. Especially since it's just another marine army.
Ok. I get everyone has a right to feel the way they do but come on people. Do you really think GW just pulled this out of their hat yesterday? Their development cycle is at least a year long. So this didn’t keep resources from other stuff because these have probably been in production at the plant for 6 months, possibly longer. Also, backing this up, several people from the open day have stated that they were told that these have been ready since early last year. Also, to show the trend, we waited almost a year from the first official pictures of death guard to when those models went up for sale. Relax, they didn’t shove anything out of the way for this release.
I do agree that xenon sooner than later would be awesome. Kinda tired of killing nothing but imperials and deathguard in my local scene.
Personally I think its terrible from a design concept. AC are another "itsy bitsy" faction with hardly any units or kits. I can't believe they put them out before Orks, let alone all the other major factions who have ACTUAL product lines.
Fafnir wrote: Quite bitter. The level of neglect so many factions are getting while GW decides to introduce a wholly unnecessary new faction is a real kick in the head. Especially since it's just another marine army.
^^
Do you think they can update Eldar in the same amount of kits as Death Guard? Especially when they plan to release all the codexes by summer?
So basically they've released two factions and then ran an update that ties into AoS as well. Aside from those TWO things they're cramming books and specialist games. There isn't TIME to update some of these armies like they should be.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
argonak wrote: Personally I think its terrible from a design concept. AC are another "itsy bitsy" faction with hardly any units or kits. I can't believe they put them out before Orks, let alone all the other major factions who have ACTUAL product lines.
Which is precisely why it is such a reasonable release. Very few kits to fill out a specialized army. It isn't going to need weeks and weeks like Primaris or DG. These models have been ready to go for a very long time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 03:34:24
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Oh? Custodes for elite h2h power, IG for chaff and shooting. Seems pretty strong army to me.
Not to go off topic in my own thread, but this is a very bad way to play 40k.
The game rewards doubling down on your strengths. It is a gosh darn terrible idea to have a handful of units that forfill multiple functions and having a hugely expensive custodes unit in a AM army is a terrible idea.
How many people do you see sticking Grey Knights in? Vanguard Space Marines? You can't even find any competative AM lists that have Ogyrns in.
There's is nothing a custodes army can offer me to soup in. I'm not even sure what armies would benefit. And while I see a lot of 'Yay, I get to use my 30k models in 40k' [And while I resent you for the effect it's having on 40k, I can certainly understand feeling you've got double the value of your money, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to be excited.] I've not seen anyone go, 'Yesss! Being able to soup in some Custodes is going to make my list killer.' Even in fluffy games I mean... How many fluff battles take place in the Imperial Palace?
And don't give me GW's new crap of, 'And now we've decided to send the custodes out into the galaxy and abandon terra!' Because that's Primaris level of stupidity, even for the Imperium.
Deployment of the ceremonial guard isn't really that stupid. Terra is already the most power battlefleet in existence, supported by an even more destructive array of orbital defenses, as well as the presence of Mars and Titan in it's system, the Custodians are rather ceremonial in nature, and they're not deploying their entire force anyway.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Independently, they're going to be kind of weedy as a force, and I fear they'll be nonviable as a faction. The last thing we need are a crap-ton of tiny factions that lack the diversity and options to be playable in any way.
40k hasn't been game of mono faction armies for past 2 editions anyway. Mixing&matching factions to maximize effect is the name of the game. So what custodians(even with FW models) aren't independent faction? You aren't expected to play with just them. Grab some IG for chaff and vehicles and maybe some 3rd faction and go.
I mean, yes, but that doesn't exactly make for a very strong army.
Oh? Custodes for elite h2h power, IG for chaff and shooting. Seems pretty strong army to me.
It's not, there's no synergy.
Assuming you're playing a classic Imperial Guard infantry-tank-artillery gunline, any points spent on Custodians would be wasted [to make to mention of what guard units you're trading for those custodians]. They will either move out beyond your lines without support, and get shot down without doing anything, or they will sit in your line as counter-chargers when you'd be better served buying riflemen to just tarpit the enemy. Likewise, as custodians, you're going to want to be fielding more custodians rather than bringing Impy units along for the ride.
As Halsey said, double down on what you're good at. Units bought outside their own faction are generally not performing at peak efficiency, so you're not just paying the exorbitant cost of Custodians, you're paying far more than you're getting from them.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2018/01/07 03:56:21
Subject: Re:How do you feel about the new AC codex?
I'm all for it. People expecting tons of new models for old armies need to temper their expectations. I got a hunch that most old armies will be released without much of new units. and that we can expect to see newer armies pushed to the forefront.
much like with AOS
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
orkychaos wrote:Ok. I get everyone has a right to feel the way they do but come on people. Do you really think GW just pulled this out of their hat yesterday? Their development cycle is at least a year long. So this didn’t keep resources from other stuff because these have probably been in production at the plant for 6 months, possibly longer. Also, backing this up, several people from the open day have stated that they were told that these have been ready since early last year. Also, to show the trend, we waited almost a year from the first official pictures of death guard to when those models went up for sale. Relax, they didn’t shove anything out of the way for this release.
I do agree that xenon sooner than later would be awesome. Kinda tired of killing nothing but imperials and deathguard in my local scene.
We have model ranges that go so far back that this shouldn't really affect considerations. A year ago or now, Eldar and Sisters are just as ancient compared to everything as they were before, and Dark Eldar are still rocking an unhealthy amount of finecast. And GW's certainly aware of this. Those hoping for sisters already have to deal with the constant mockery on GW's part as it is.
Fafnir wrote: Quite bitter. The level of neglect so many factions are getting while GW decides to introduce a wholly unnecessary new faction is a real kick in the head. Especially since it's just another marine army.
^^
Do you think they can update Eldar in the same amount of kits as Death Guard? Especially when they plan to release all the codexes by summer?
They don't need the level of expansion that Deathguard got. Hell, it doesn't even need to all be done at once, and we don't even need any new units (Slicing Orbs could be cool, but then again, it's probably best if they're left to imagination). But the Aspect Warriors, one of the most iconic elements of the Eldar faction, need some serious attention (and in the case of Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and especially Striking Scorpions, a bit of a rules overhaul). Not only are these models horribly dated, but they're constant unavailability can make Eldar and similarly treated factions (Sisters...) a nightmare to build.
So basically they've released two factions and then ran an update that ties into AoS as well. Aside from those TWO things they're cramming books and specialist games. There isn't TIME to update some of these armies like they should be.
And there isn't TIME to be releasing new armies are so neglected. Especially when Forgeworld already just released their own damned versions of them. Which goes to further show the disconnect between these two studios, despite the fact that they work in the same damned building. I don't care if GW wanted to do Custodes themselves, then pass off some other neglected faction that they clearly have no interest in to Forgeworld. But putting up with these dual 40k-going-on-30 releases is ridiculous.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
argonak wrote: Personally I think its terrible from a design concept. AC are another "itsy bitsy" faction with hardly any units or kits. I can't believe they put them out before Orks, let alone all the other major factions who have ACTUAL product lines.
Which is precisely why it is such a reasonable release. Very few kits to fill out a specialized army. It isn't going to need weeks and weeks like Primaris or DG. These models have been ready to go for a very long time.
Sisters of Battle could be mostly done with two boxes. That's less than it took for this Custodes release.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 04:54:04
Love it, but would rather have seen other armies released first.
Variety is good and I think Custodes add something different to Marines. I guess we are all slightly biased in which armies we'd like to see released/updated first.
Rolsheen wrote: So much joy for two reasons
1. Beautiful new models
2. Xenos whiners heads exploding
Without those xenos players you're basically just playing horus heresy, they deserve as much attention as other factions do.
As much as people keep saying marines sell lets make more marines, they need to update the other factions eventually, which may or may not lead to a poorer financial streak. If they have something awesome lined up for other factions on release, great, otherwise I honestly think new aspect warriors, new necrons warriors, new gaunts, new kroot etc. Would all blow custodes sales out the water. Moreover it's not worth garnering the negative feelsbads in the community.
2018/01/07 11:58:57
Subject: Re:How do you feel about the new AC codex?
We've gotten 8 armies(Craftworld, Guard, Mechanicus, Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Chaos Marines, and Death Guard)
9. Dont forget nomnom Nids
I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT NIDS!
So 9 armies, only one of which was really "new"(Death Guard). Space Marines had a new subfaction added into them with the Primaris but anyone arguing that's a new army is full of crap.
Rolsheen wrote: So much joy for two reasons
1. Beautiful new models
2. Xenos whiners heads exploding
Without those xenos players you're basically just playing horus heresy, they deserve as much attention as other factions do.
As much as people keep saying marines sell lets make more marines, they need to update the other factions eventually, which may or may not lead to a poorer financial streak. If they have something awesome lined up for other factions on release, great, otherwise I honestly think new aspect warriors, new necrons warriors, new gaunts, new kroot etc. Would all blow custodes sales out the water. Moreover it's not worth garnering the negative feelsbads in the community.
How would they though?
I want new Xenos stuff - but you know, new Xenos stuff.
I don't really get this idea that re-doing kits would be especially profitable.
I don't think constantly re-doing tactical marines is profitable for people replacing marines, its profitable because its the first kit every 10 year old gets bought and has been for decades.
It is a catch-22 to some degree, people don't pick an army because its full of old kits, but people who have said army are unlikely to rush out to replace them. I mean would Necron players go buy 3 new warrior kits if they were redone? I doubt it - in my experience people have a disproportionate attachment to the models they have owned for decades. What do they want another 30 warriors for? They are never going to use them all in a game. There are some who might (the kind of guy who ends up with 20,000 points worth of Orks for reasons known only to themselves) but thats the exception rather than the rule.
Unless the finecast has clearly had its day (new Greater Daemons for instance justify the word "Greater") I am not sold that replacing it is a great use of resources. People can go on about aspect warriors until blue in the face - but the kits, while ancient, hold up. I have no desire to see a release slot wasted on just re-tooling current Eldar lines. Its a bit like Dark Eldar Wracks - nice that they are in plastic (or would be if they hadn't sucked every edition), but it was almost a 1:1 conversion. Little was really gained.
So today I'd much rather see new Ynnari miniatures than just dark reapers in plastic.
SoB are a possible exception, but only because I assume they would (if they ever get a release) get a full re-imagining. Presumably similar iconography etc, but hopefully it would be a step beyond "what was metal from 2000 is now plastic in 2020". New poses, new units, new models. This might well divide obsessives - but it would be something.
Space Marines (Rift Wardens) - 8050pts.
Vampire Covenants 2060pts. 
~4100
~1660
5000 
