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 Just Tony wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
No vote option for me, but we'll start with a misunderstanding. I know I've been away from the fluff, and I CERTAINTLY won't sink any more money into the novels after Rynn's World and Defenders of Ulthuan, but I thought the Adeptus Custodes was the guard of the Emperor's palace on Earth. Why are they even a playable faction in current 40K? Did their job description get changed?


And second the vote that EVERY other army should have been done before these clowns.

With the return of Gulliman they've been basicly kicked in the ass and told "can't defend the emperor of the entire IoM falls"

So basically "To sell toys". Even more pointless.

sure in the same way every other army is pointless.

It actually wasn't that bad playing Nids with the black book. Sure, you couldn't customize every inch of every organism, but clearly defined unit types made for easier lists and Genestealers were legitimately scary in that list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
No vote option for me, but we'll start with a misunderstanding. I know I've been away from the fluff, and I CERTAINTLY won't sink any more money into the novels after Rynn's World and Defenders of Ulthuan, but I thought the Adeptus Custodes was the guard of the Emperor's palace on Earth. Why are they even a playable faction in current 40K? Did their job description get changed?


And second the vote that EVERY other army should have been done before these clowns.

With the return of Gulliman they've been basicly kicked in the ass and told "can't defend the emperor of the entire IoM falls"

So basically "To sell toys". Even more pointless.

sure in the same way every other army is pointless.

My comment on pointless was more towards the banana heads adding NOTHING to Imperial lists they didn't already have with elite Marines, and having elite Marines lists means that the banana heads are DOUBLY bringing nothing that isn't already there. This reveal was a waste of resources, a total redundancy of models (barring jetbikes, I suppose), and delayed more important Xenos releases.

I just want to note that several of people arguing that custodes are awesome for being giant elite improved space marines have also posted on other threads that they hate primaris marines.

*ducks*

 Just Tony wrote:
and delayed more important Xenos releases.

Define “more important”.

kombatwombat wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
and delayed more important Xenos releases.

Define “more important”.

Any codex that has a larger player base than Custodes. So Orks, Tau, Necrons...

I think it's awesome they've kept up this 2 codex a month thing, but their ordering of the codexes has been weird. I expected SM and CSM because they are the largest player groups, but how DA and BA got codexes before Orks makes no sense to me.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I just want to note that several of people arguing that custodes are awesome for being giant elite improved space marines have also posted on other threads that they hate primaris marines.

*ducks*

Ehhh there’s a legitimate distinction there though. Space Marines are supposed to be best of the best of soldiers. They’re the SAS; they’re supposed to be the best a soldier could possibly aspire to.

Custodes on the other hand are an elite bodyguard. A mix of bodyguard, assassin, statesman, politician and philosopher. They don’t fight like Marines because they’re not a military organisation: they’re a loose conglomerate of individual progidies. I believe it was Leman Russ who said (paraphrasing) ‘these are lions, not wolves’. They’re not a standing military force with various support elements, they’re individually crafted tools. Custodes ae functionally different to Space Maines, despite sharing common themes (namely ‘imperial’, ‘elite’ and ‘armoured’).

Primaris on the other hand are literally ‘Space Marines+1’. They fill the same functional role, do exactly the same thing but better. The only thing separating Marines and Primaris are how elite they are. GW took ‘the best of the best of soldiers’ and made ‘the slightly bester of the best of soliders’ and wondered why there was a negative reaction. If I play the best of the best of a particular role (soldiering), does it not occur to you that introducing a slightly better best of the best at exactly what my guys do might tick me off a little?

kombatwombat wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I just want to note that several of people arguing that custodes are awesome for being giant elite improved space marines have also posted on other threads that they hate primaris marines.

*ducks*

Ehhh there’s a legitimate distinction there though. Space Marines are supposed to be best of the best of soldiers. They’re the SAS; they’re supposed to be the best a soldier could possibly aspire to.

Space Marines where a tool, the best the Emperor could mass produce at the moment. They wheren't more special than Thunder Warriors. Wouldn't you think that back in the day the Emperor said the "Thunder Warriors" where the best of the best? "The emperor's finest"? And we all know how that ended.

kombatwombat wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I just want to note that several of people arguing that custodes are awesome for being giant elite improved space marines have also posted on other threads that they hate primaris marines.

*ducks*

Ehhh there’s a legitimate distinction there though. Space Marines are supposed to be best of the best of soldiers. They’re the SAS; they’re supposed to be the best a soldier could possibly aspire to.

Custodes on the other hand are an elite bodyguard. A mix of bodyguard, assassin, statesman, politician and philosopher. They don’t fight like Marines because they’re not a military organisation: they’re a loose conglomerate of individual progidies. I believe it was Leman Russ who said (paraphrasing) ‘these are lions, not wolves’. They’re not a standing military force with various support elements, they’re individually crafted tools. Custodes ae functionally different to Space Maines, despite sharing common themes (namely ‘imperial’, ‘elite’ and ‘armoured’).

Primaris on the other hand are literally ‘Space Marines+1’. They fill the same functional role, do exactly the same thing but better. The only thing separating Marines and Primaris are how elite they are. GW took ‘the best of the best of soldiers’ and made ‘the slightly bester of the best of soliders’ and wondered why there was a negative reaction. If I play the best of the best of a particular role (soldiering), does it not occur to you that introducing a slightly better best of the best at exactly what my guys do might tick me off a little?

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

That's not even counting the non-codex complaint chapters of space marines you can buy. I'm happy for the 30k custodes player who now get to play 8th edition without playing their other factions, but it does show a trend that GW every few years decides to rustle up additional funds by producing a 'more special' version of space marines and everyone buys into them.

Primaris are at least a kind of apology to space marine players for how there models never really got to elite status they were supposed to (shorter than modern caidian models, same number of wounds, etc), but I'm not certain that releasing a space themed teaser and then dropping custodes so soon after primaris was the right call for a number of reasons.

I'm doubly uncertain how you can hate one faction of 'better than you' space marines but then love a faction of 'even more better than you' space marines. Isn't the theme the same? One just has more gilt.

Am I in minority that find custodes hideous (not trolling) ? With all that golden ornament, gigantic shoulder pads, banana helmet with ponytail.
The ugliest of space marines.

 Modock wrote:
Am I in minority that find custodes hideous (not trolling) ? With all that golden ornament, gigantic shoulder pads, banana helmet with ponytail.
The ugliest of space marines.

They're a bit extra, yes. It works if there is just one unit of them, but as a full army it is too much. If I end up getting them, I'm gonna paint them black. I might also try to get hold of some extra biker helmets and use those on the regular guys too.

 Modock wrote:
Am I in minority that find custodes hideous (not trolling) ? With all that golden ornament, gigantic shoulder pads, banana helmet with ponytail.
The ugliest of space marines.

They are like the Pontifical Swiss Guard. For me they look ridiculous in those payamas, but they are a honour guard and I can see the appeal for some people. Personally I love the look of Custodes, but not in golden.

 Modock wrote:
Am I in minority that find custodes hideous (not trolling) ? With all that golden ornament, gigantic shoulder pads, banana helmet with ponytail.
The ugliest of space marines.

Yep - repulsive.

The black or white color scheme makes them a bit better but a whole table of golden ornamental statues..

I would not be so hard on Custodes - they are flashy but they fit the 40k aesthetics way more than many modern sculpts.
Just they don't belong to the tabletop more than 1 unit at time.
But the single mode, adjusted for the role is supposed to have, is quite nice and fitting with what the emperor looked like.. as far as we know. We can imagine big E surrounded by these guys.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I would not be so hard on Custodes - they are flashy but they fit the 40k aesthetics way more than many modern sculpts.
Just they don't belong to the tabletop more than 1 unit at time.
But the single mode, adjusted for the role is supposed to have, is quite nice and fitting with what the emperor looked like.. as far as we know. We can imagine big E surrounded by these guys.

.. what possible modern sculpt could you be thinking of that fits the 40k aesthetic less than custodes?

Giant, golden, bright, shiny, perfect, flawless super-duper soldiers using entirely functional newly-developed scifi technology is the absolute anthithesis of 40k in my eyes.

looking at recent releases - Triumvirates were fine. Guilliman was obnoxious mostly for his proportional goofiness but he at least had a burning sword and a couple incense braziers and such. Stuff like Grayfax and new Cypher I'd even give an A to an A+ in terms of how well they convey "40k" in aesthetics. All the new DG look like sculpted versions of wonderful classic Blanche goodness. Genestealer Cult, again perfection. Primaris marines fluff is insanely obnoxious but at least the models blend in OK with existing marines. Eldar Triumvirate was great - loved seeing the "new savior' sharing significant thematic elements with a slaanesh daemon.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

You forgot Primaris Deathwatch.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I just want to note that several of people arguing that custodes are awesome for being giant elite improved space marines have also posted on other threads that they hate primaris marines.

*ducks*

Ehhh there’s a legitimate distinction there though. Space Marines are supposed to be best of the best of soldiers. They’re the SAS; they’re supposed to be the best a soldier could possibly aspire to.

Custodes on the other hand are an elite bodyguard. A mix of bodyguard, assassin, statesman, politician and philosopher. They don’t fight like Marines because they’re not a military organisation: they’re a loose conglomerate of individual progidies. I believe it was Leman Russ who said (paraphrasing) ‘these are lions, not wolves’. They’re not a standing military force with various support elements, they’re individually crafted tools. Custodes ae functionally different to Space Maines, despite sharing common themes (namely ‘imperial’, ‘elite’ and ‘armoured’).

Primaris on the other hand are literally ‘Space Marines+1’. They fill the same functional role, do exactly the same thing but better. The only thing separating Marines and Primaris are how elite they are. GW took ‘the best of the best of soldiers’ and made ‘the slightly bester of the best of soliders’ and wondered why there was a negative reaction. If I play the best of the best of a particular role (soldiering), does it not occur to you that introducing a slightly better best of the best at exactly what my guys do might tick me off a little?

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

Custodes aren't Space Marines lore wise though. They predate them and were made differently.
Likewise, Sisters are actually special (as in training and equipment, not genetics) humans.

For me Deathwatch aren't "Special Space Marines" like Custodes, Primaris or Grey Knights, that are biological superior to Space Marines.

DeathWatch are just veterans, more like "Black-Ops" marines.

The nuances in the lore take second fiddle to design aesthetics. Regardless of any lore attempting to differentiate them they're still essentially just Space Marines++.

I keep saying that about all the different kinds of The Elder Scrolls's human, but for their fans a Breton has nothing to do with a Imperial... to each their own.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

You forgot Primaris Deathwatch.

When does DW Primaris release?

 Primark G wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

You forgot Primaris Deathwatch.

When does DW Primaris release?

You've been able to run Primaris in the Deathwatch since the Primaris came out, or shortly there after.

 Galas wrote:
I keep saying that about all the different kinds of The Elder Scrolls's human, but for their fans a Breton has nothing to do with a Imperial... to each their own.

Aren't Bretons half Elf? Apparently they have higher magic resist because of that.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I keep saying that about all the different kinds of The Elder Scrolls's human, but for their fans a Breton has nothing to do with a Imperial... to each their own.

Aren't Bretons half Elf? Apparently they have higher magic resist because of that.

The nuances in the lore take second fiddle to design aesthetics. Regardless of any lore attempting to differentiate them they're still essentially just Humans of another colour.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

I think I posted this earlier but it has reached silly proportions:

1) Space Marines: Special Humans
2) Primaris Marines: Special Space Marines
3) DeathWatch: Special Special Space Marines
4) Grey Knights: Special Special Special Space Marines
5) Custodes: Special Special Special Special Space Marines
6) Sisters of Battle: Less than Special Space Marines.

You forgot Primaris Deathwatch.

When does DW Primaris release?

You've been able to run Primaris in the Deathwatch since the Primaris came out, or shortly there after.

The arms/shoulders fit reasonably well. And the Primaris Stalker bolter makes a much better Stalker bolter than the weird chunky thing they shipped in the Deathwatch box anyway.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The nuances in the lore take second fiddle to design aesthetics. Regardless of any lore attempting to differentiate them they're still essentially just Space Marines++.

Here you’re just taking your opinion and stating it as objective fact.

What you mean is that ‘to you, design theme is more important than lore, so Custodes do nothing for you’.

For me, the lore is more important than common design elements, so Custodes fill a niche for me.

Edit: From the point of view of fluff bunnies and those who don’t just want to criticise GW for putting out lots of different guys in armour, this list might look something like this:

1) Space Marines: Genetically modified super solider special forces. The best of the best of the Imperial war machine.
2) Primaris Marines: Space Marines +1. There’s a reason these guys have attracted so much angst.
3) DeathWatch: Space Marines experienced, trained and equipped to fight a particular enemy.
4) Grey Knights: Space Marines experienced, trainer and equipped to fight a different particular enemy.
5) Custodes: Bodyguards, assassins, politicians and philosophers rolled into one, with completely different genetic modification; not a military organisation.
6) Sisters of Battle: Unaugmented human soldiers with top-notch equipment requisitioned by virtue of powerful political ties.

Primaris Marines fill exactly the same niche that Space Marines do, they just do it better. They took the ‘best of the best’ and made them besterer. Deathwatch and Grey Knights aren’t really ‘better’ as much as ‘more specialised’, which has strengths and weaknesses. Custodes aren’t Space Marines+1, they’re a different concept that fulfils a different role.

I definatly agree the lore is more important, custodes have been here in the background forever, it's nice to see them on the tablre

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Custodes aren't Space Marines lore wise though. They predate them and were made differently.
Likewise, Sisters are actually special (as in training and equipment, not genetics) humans.

Actually, Custodes do NOT predate Marines.

Before the Custodes the Dark Angels were the Guardians of the Emperor. That's the reason they have a large cache of ancient and "better" tech than many of the other marine chapters. They were allowed to take it with them when they joined up with Lion El'Johnson and got replaced by the Custodes.






As for the gold armor being atrocious.... Anymore so than a sea of Bright blue armor? How about silver armor? Grey and Yellow stripes?

If the custodes release has a quick return on the investment it will likely fund other army releases, which makes for a faster release schedule overall.

 cuda1179 wrote:



As for the gold armor being atrocious.... Anymore so than a sea of Bright blue armor? How about silver armor? Grey and Yellow stripes?

Err, yes? Pure gold is a hideous look. It's painful to look at.

Regarding the replenishment of the numbers of custodes:

I always figured he taught the Custodians themselves to do it. After all, I'm pretty sure they were already responsible training and teaching the children who would become future Custodians without the Emperors direct oversight once he got busy with the crusade and the webway project.

Once of the roles the Custodians filled was basically being intellegent and well learned enough to give good conversation to the emperor. That would certainly imply that evem if one wasnt up to the task several of them would be.