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 vonjankmon wrote:
The decision to make Custodes their own faction was likely made when they started selling so well in the "board games" they released that included the models, which I think was like a year and a half to two years ago. (If someone has the release dates, please correct me) So their release was maybe a bit faster than normal but at the same time a lot of the range was already created for those "board games" so that likely cut some time off.

This doesn't change the fact that it really alienates xenos players that already have entire lines of models already produced, available, painted and ready to field. It basically tells those customers that their investment in time, effort and money means very little to them, certainly not enough to provide them a competitive or at least comparable rule set.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
The decision to make Custodes their own faction was likely made when they started selling so well in the "board games" they released that included the models, which I think was like a year and a half to two years ago. (If someone has the release dates, please correct me) So their release was maybe a bit faster than normal but at the same time a lot of the range was already created for those "board games" so that likely cut some time off.

This doesn't change the fact that it really alienates xenos players that already have entire lines of models already produced, available, painted and ready to field. It basically tells those customers that their investment in time, effort and money means very little to them, certainly not enough to provide them a competitive or at least comparable rule set.

Look, I know "Right now" is the only answer as to when everyone gets a codex is all that some people will accept but every army getting a codex within a year of a new edition is so good that I would have *never* taken it as a bet prior to 8th edition and the "new" GW. 4-5 more months and you will have a codex for whatever army you play, it's blindingly quick for GW.

The board games that GW did were tests to see what would sell and what wouldn't. If the DE speeder game had sold like gangbusters I can promise you we would be seeing new models for the Dark Eldar at this point. People may not like it but GW is going to try and maximize profits to sell what they think people want to buy. I think a lot of the time they're being short sighted as something that may not sell super well could sell well enough but bring new players into your game and expand your player base, which in the long term results in more profits than you would have gotten from just making a "hot" army but the reality there is that making that distinction is tough. I think SoB, a new Xenos race, or a major update to a more dated existing xenos race could bring new players into the game but it's a gamble and up until recently GW was not willing to gamble as their market share was deteriorating quickly. Now that they're doing well give them a year or two to see if they take some more gambles, those decisions are being made now.

 vonjankmon wrote:
Look, I know "Right now" is the only answer as to when everyone gets a codex is all that some people will accept but every army getting a codex within a year of a new edition is so good that I would have *never* taken it as a bet prior to 8th edition and the "new" GW. 4-5 more months and you will have a codex for whatever army you play, it's blindingly quick for GW.

I agree, most of the time, I'd write this off as over-entitled whining, but as a Chaos player I am literally looking at the fact that *every* one of my factions will have a full codex before xenos factions that have been around for 30 years get their first.

I'm sorry, that's just crap, it's basically telling those players that they simply aren't important to the game, the community, to the hobby.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
Look, I know "Right now" is the only answer as to when everyone gets a codex is all that some people will accept but every army getting a codex within a year of a new edition is so good that I would have *never* taken it as a bet prior to 8th edition and the "new" GW. 4-5 more months and you will have a codex for whatever army you play, it's blindingly quick for GW.

I agree, most of the time, I'd write this off as over-entitled whining, but as a Chaos player I am literally looking at the fact that *every* one of my factions will have a full codex before xenos factions that have been around for 30 years get their first.

I'm sorry, that's just crap, it's basically telling those players that they simply aren't important to the game, the community, to the hobby.

Agreed the fact eldar are not getting love speaks a lot.

From what I have heard the new AC just decimates hordes.

 Primark G wrote:
From what I have heard the new AC just decimates hordes.

They put them against orks, that's not really hard to do.

I am very much looking forward to this release, when I started the game I was very much interested in the Custodes and they've been something where I want all the lore I can manage on them.

I've already gotten all 3 of their FW Dreads and two of the tanks, so I'm invested already, and hope we get some of the FW tanks for 40k.

 Primark G wrote:
From what I have heard the new AC just decimates hordes.

Agressors Decimate hordes too - how often do we see them show up in winning tournament lists?

Custodes are going to be freaking terrible. Just a cash grab. Don't buy into it.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Agreed the fact eldar are not getting love speaks a lot.

I can't even begin to tell you how much it pains me to agree with this, despite CWE being a really strong codex, DE are just the bastard stepchild.

There's decimating hordes, and then there's decimating hordes EFFICIENTLY.

The problem is that Orks arnt really a horde army anymore. Sure our boyz are good but that's it... if I wanted a trukk or walker army it would be cheaper to feild more rhinos or dreadnoughts some how... so by the time I've made a horde of anything other than boyz my opponent has just as many troops of the same type but better. Even with ork boyz... an IG player could afford just as many troops to buffer the boyz while still having the points to afford the big guns to decimate the boyz... da jump is overrated as many factions have just as efficient and effective deep strikes (genestealer can basically run across the table turn 1). There is no guarantee for a successful charge that turn, plus it can only be used once per turn and any smart player would learn to cover all deepstrike spots up and snipe the weirdboy turn 2.


It all depends on the points I geuss... the AC terminators should be worth about 100-200pts each if only one or two can blow 100-200 pts off the table a turn.

Eldar and Tau got lots of love throughout 6th and 7th editions - it is nice to see the power swinging back again.

Eldar are still brutally effective in 8th.

 Primark G wrote:
Eldar and Tau got lots of love throughout 6th and 7th editions - it is nice to see the power swinging back again.

So are Tau, the problem is Tau in 8th needs to be really aggressive not shooting in the back. Like seriously the ghost keel, is terrorfying, deep strike and getting smacked with like 4 fusion blasters is a quick way to make a knight cry.

 Primark G wrote:
Eldar and Tau got lots of love throughout 6th and 7th editions - it is nice to see the power swinging back again.

Yes, but that's not relevant to the development of 8th edition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Eldar are still brutally effective in 8th.

Yes, how long that will hold while Chaos and Imperium factions continue to get more and more codices remains to be seen.

Of course the people who chose to play Dark Eldar alone are still S.O.L.

 Primark G wrote:
Eldar and Tau got lots of love throughout 6th and 7th editions - it is nice to see the power swinging back again.

Two wrongs don't make one right.

Eldar are better than any single Imperium book bar IG. I'm not convinced yet that Imperium soup is actually better than mono-IG.

Martel732 wrote:
Eldar are better than any single Imperium book bar IG. I'm not convinced yet that Imperium soup is actually better than mono-IG.

Give them time, they keep adding full Imperial Codices at this rate, I'm sure something will click.

As for the Eldar, honestly, they better be, because when it's all said and done, it's looking as if it will be (maybe) 2 Eldar codices vs upwards of 10 Imperial Codices and 4-6 Chaos Codices.

That's a whole lot of cherries to pick from.

So apparently they can smack a horde pretty well.. for what they will likely cost if each one of them isn't smacking five or six a turn on average - thats both combat phases so 10-12 per game turn in combat, plus 3-4 a turn as they move in then not seeing the point of that.

Besides, they don't come over as a "horde killing" army, the Imperium has plenty of crowd control options.

My main concern though is how they handle mortal wounds basically dropping them like flies?

Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

At least Orks can generally take the hits for a round or two

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Spartacus wrote:

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Probably Magnus, has like a 50% chance to do 2d6 mortal wounds, normally does d6 if he manifests below a 10

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Probably Magnus, has like a 50% chance to do 2d6 mortal wounds, normally does d6 if he manifests below a 10

Yeah just more psykers. Imperium armies can be pretty well protected by a few decent psykers of their own plus a well placed Culexus which is why I'm not too worried (face Morty and Maggy regularly).

leopard wrote:
So apparently they can smack a horde pretty well.. for what they will likely cost if each one of them isn't smacking five or six a turn on average - thats both combat phases so 10-12 per game turn in combat, plus 3-4 a turn as they move in then not seeing the point of that.

Besides, they don't come over as a "horde killing" army, the Imperium has plenty of crowd control options.

My main concern though is how they handle mortal wounds basically dropping them like flies?

Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

At least Orks can generally take the hits for a round or two

The real test is going to be how well they survive against massed low str firepower - FRFSRF will likely murk them. I assume the terms are going to be 2+/4++ with 3 wounds t4 and probably upwards of 60 points. Plasma isn't that great against it but dark reapers will murk them.

Spartacus wrote:

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Fliers dropping bombs and other special abilities mostly - I also tend to cause a fair few using Tyranids.

Smite isn't all its cracked up to be really as its too easy to avoid, the "I fly over you and do mortal wounds, no you can't mitigate this" units are the main source to me

 Xenomancers wrote:

The real test is going to be how well they survive against massed low str firepower - FRFSRF will likely murk them. I assume the terms are going to be 2+/4++ with 3 wounds t4 and probably upwards of 60 points. Plasma isn't that great against it but dark reapers will murk them.

Theyll be at least T5 3W like regular rank and file Custodes, possibly T6 which would make them hard as nails vs Reapers and lasguns. I would imagine that and/or 4 wounds.

 Xenomancers wrote:

leopard wrote:
So apparently they can smack a horde pretty well.. for what they will likely cost if each one of them isn't smacking five or six a turn on average - thats both combat phases so 10-12 per game turn in combat, plus 3-4 a turn as they move in then not seeing the point of that.

Besides, they don't come over as a "horde killing" army, the Imperium has plenty of crowd control options.

My main concern though is how they handle mortal wounds basically dropping them like flies?

Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

At least Orks can generally take the hits for a round or two

The real test is going to be how well they survive against massed low str firepower - FRFSRF will likely murk them. I assume the terms are going to be 2+/4++ with 3 wounds t4 and probably upwards of 60 points. Plasma isn't that great against it but dark reapers will murk them.

Guessing T5, 3W, not that T5 v T4 matters much to IG, but throw in a 2+ save and they will still take a bit of shifting.

have had gene stealers throwing dice by the bucket fall flat against units like that.

The issue with them won't be so much how robust they are against lasguns, it will be they simply won't kill enough guys with lasguns themselves for it to matter

The bikes will be T6-T7.

leopard wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Fliers dropping bombs and other special abilities mostly - I also tend to cause a fair few using Tyranids.

Smite isn't all its cracked up to be really as its too easy to avoid, the "I fly over you and do mortal wounds, no you can't mitigate this" units are the main source to me

I fielded Custodes once and had them get wrecked by 4-5 Wave Serpent blitz dropping mortal wounds on them all. Wrecked my frontline. If you guys don't mind me contributing an example outside psyker powers.

My level of disinterest in this new codex is unfathomable.

Audustum wrote:

leopard wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

leopard wrote:


Can perhaps run SS for anti-smite stuff, but then thats not the most prolific source of MW around here.

The only significant MW sources I face are psykers or mortarion, as well as the odd special-snowflake melee weapon or sniper rifle. Just a product of my gaming group I think. Mind if I ask what sources of plentiful MW you often face?

Fliers dropping bombs and other special abilities mostly - I also tend to cause a fair few using Tyranids.

Smite isn't all its cracked up to be really as its too easy to avoid, the "I fly over you and do mortal wounds, no you can't mitigate this" units are the main source to me

I fielded Custodes once and had them get wrecked by 4-5 Wave Serpent blitz dropping mortal wounds on them all. Wrecked my frontline. If you guys don't mind me contributing an example outside psyker powers.

Its basically this sort of thing, no you won't face it every game, and yes with 3W each they can mitigate it to a level, but to me they are not an army, they are a detachment that supports an army

I expect they will utterly excel in APOC scale games where one team member has them and uses them as a strike force to support an actual army, countering the enemies strike force.

I have 15 of them there, benefits of two copies of Prospero for the MkIII models I guess so have the core of a small force.

Can't see me using them much is causal play, due to the issues above, but can see them running occasionally.

I'm seeing them as a bit like a ww2 Tiger list, just because your opponent knows you have them will change how they build armies and just may help my orks etc