Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There are some good people I know who are excited, so, I am excited for them. Although, I feel that other armies - such as Necrons - would really benefit from a new codex.

In fact at this point, unless you can magically delete the GK codex and start over with it, i would say that Necrons should be first in line.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Audustum wrote:
I mean, Craftworld we're definitely not bastard step children and I saw plenty of Tau in tournaments in 7th so it's not like there is a tradition of that. Craftworld are out and strong again now too. Even the Dark Eldar people had some bright spots running Ynnari.

Or by Xenos did you mean Orks/Necrons? Cause that's a bit different then all Xenos.

Eldar are in the best position, without a doubt. However, at the end of the day, you will be able to choose units from 2 *maybe* 3 codices to fill out your list.

Chaos will choose from 4-6 codices at least.

Imperial will choose from upwards of 10.

Everyone else will get 1, once GW is done building the Imperial/Chaos library of codices.

Thanks for playing.

Imperium obviously has most options, though some of that is illusory. Various SM books have mostly the same copy pasted units. Still, way more than the others.

Anyway, I think it would be a good idea to expand the 'families' of other factions when possible. This is why I don't want to see a completely separate new xenos race. If a new xenos army would be added, I'd prefer it to be one that shares an overarching faction with another xenos army. Eldar already have this, and could be expanded with more Ynnari or Exodites. Tau obviously are well suited for this sort of expansion too. A full Kroot, Vespid or some other xenos army that is affiliated with the Tau, but can be fielded on their own too. Chaos could also use a separate chaos cult/rebel guard faction as a full main GW supported faction.

 Crimson wrote:
Imperium obviously has most options, though some of that is illusory. Various SM books have mostly the same copy pasted units. Still, way more than the others.

Honestly, if they had stuck with their somewhat established pattern of the past few months, a couple Chaos/Imperial codices, followed by a couple Xenos codices, I wouldn't be as annoyed. But they just released 3 Imperial/Chaos codices, decided not to release any Xenos codices, then compounded the issue by releasing a codex for a completely niche faction of the Imperium while not addressing long-standing huge army factions.

If I played xenos, I would be pissed, legitimately, considering selling my stuff on ebay, pissed. GW just flat-out demonstrated their utter disdain for a huge chunk of their community.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Imperium obviously has most options, though some of that is illusory. Various SM books have mostly the same copy pasted units. Still, way more than the others.

Honestly, if they had stuck with their somewhat established pattern of the past few months, a couple Chaos/Imperial codices, followed by a couple Xenos codices, I wouldn't be as annoyed. But they just released 3 Imperial/Chaos codices, decided not to release any Xenos codices, then compounded the issue by releasing a codex for a completely niche faction of the Imperium while not addressing long-standing huge army factions.

If I played xenos, I would be pissed, legitimately, considering selling my stuff on ebay, pissed. GW just flat-out demonstrated their utter disdain for a huge chunk of their community.

I really do not fathom how anyone could be anything more than 'mildly annoyend' about that. All major factions will have their codices within couple of months anyway, so I really don't think the exact order is a particularly huge deal.

I would posit that the idea that GW sees a marked demographic split of "xenos" and "Imperial" players, and that an Eldar or Tau player should feel more strongly about Necrons or Orks getting a book than Custodes, is probably not something that occurs to them. That level of partisanship, particularly on those lines, isn't really that huge a thing. Most Ork players aren't going to care about Tyranid updates, much the same way an IG or Blood Angels player isn't going to see Custodes as being "their" update just because its broadly "Imperial". I certainly dont.

It would have been nice to see another army updated, and Custodes are seemingly the ultimate incarnation of what multiple other armies already try to do, but lets not make it out like GW is being intentionally biased against nonhuman fantasy armies and intentionally hating on players based on what species their faction is. To them, it was an easy release during a slow sales time that required minimal investment, and probably not much more than that to it.

 Crimson wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Imperium obviously has most options, though some of that is illusory. Various SM books have mostly the same copy pasted units. Still, way more than the others.

Honestly, if they had stuck with their somewhat established pattern of the past few months, a couple Chaos/Imperial codices, followed by a couple Xenos codices, I wouldn't be as annoyed. But they just released 3 Imperial/Chaos codices, decided not to release any Xenos codices, then compounded the issue by releasing a codex for a completely niche faction of the Imperium while not addressing long-standing huge army factions.

If I played xenos, I would be pissed, legitimately, considering selling my stuff on ebay, pissed. GW just flat-out demonstrated their utter disdain for a huge chunk of their community.

I really do not fathom how anyone could be anything more than 'mildly annoyend' about that. All major factions will have their codices within couple of months anyway, so I really don't think the exact order is a particularly huge deal.

I don't eaither. As others have said, despite the idea some people have that Imperium is all one big super faction... few of us play that. It's easier to start a small side army when playing IoM true as I can buy a space marine captain, some taticals and deploy em along side a bigger guard army. but generally speaking a blood angel release isn't of intreast to an ultramarines player. just for example

Audustum wrote:
I mean, Craftworld we're definitely not bastard step children and I saw plenty of Tau in tournaments in 7th so it's not like there is a tradition of that. Craftworld are out and strong again now too. Even the Dark Eldar people had some bright spots running Ynnari.

Or by Xenos did you mean Orks/Necrons? Cause that's a bit different then all Xenos.

Correction: Harlequins and CWE had bright spots running Ynnari. The last time Dark Eldar have been actually decent in tournaments in any form was the venomspam meta.

Even Ynnari almost exclusively used CWE in 7th and CWE+harlequins while it existed in 8th.

as a xenos only player, another imperium army feels meh, they all kind of blend together at this point. I would have loved to see my armies updated (duh) especially since tau didnt see anything from CA, but a new army would have been sweet too!
reading about tau BS in 7th makes me really wish I didnt skip that edition :(

 Crimson wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Imperium obviously has most options, though some of that is illusory. Various SM books have mostly the same copy pasted units. Still, way more than the others.

Honestly, if they had stuck with their somewhat established pattern of the past few months, a couple Chaos/Imperial codices, followed by a couple Xenos codices, I wouldn't be as annoyed. But they just released 3 Imperial/Chaos codices, decided not to release any Xenos codices, then compounded the issue by releasing a codex for a completely niche faction of the Imperium while not addressing long-standing huge army factions.

If I played xenos, I would be pissed, legitimately, considering selling my stuff on ebay, pissed. GW just flat-out demonstrated their utter disdain for a huge chunk of their community.

I really do not fathom how anyone could be anything more than 'mildly annoyend' about that. All major factions will have their codices within couple of months anyway, so I really don't think the exact order is a particularly huge deal.

Spotted the guy whose factions have codexes already.

IF the gulf between index and codex wasn't so vast, IF chapter approved had actually given anything of substance to the have-nots, IF the dominant factions weren't so massively alpha-strikey table you in 2 turns while you can do nothing, you'd have a point. But those things are all true, and if Chapter Approved weren't intended to tide over factions like Dark Eldar for the 4 months they had to wait, then what was it actually for? (hint, the answer is "a cash grab based on the fantasy that it would add balance")

Personally I'm not interested in the codex, but if it's making other people happy that's great.

6 months is a long time. GW business is doing great, so fine I guess, but this "suck it up with a crap index and, lol, no meaningful buffs in Chapter Approved" is alienating.

Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

The thing is there hasn't been a shift in the rules this big sinces 2nd > 3rd and thats the problem. People seem to be forgetting that the codexes currently being released are being somewhat rushed in order to get all the existing armies up to date and THAT should be GWs priority right now, not more golden mans. You can compliment them on the pace of releases all you want but its something they KNEW they would have to do when they sat down and decided to revamp the game and sticking a new army release in the middle of their catch up period was a stupid thing to do.

Once all the updated codexes are out we'll be back to two or three books a year.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

I also remember the pre-wardian era days when the pitch for a new book wasn't as much "STOMP the ever loving CRAP out of your friends with this brand new awesome supergreat codex!! They won't be able to do ANYTHING about these amazing warlord traits, stratagems, chapter tactics and relics you get in here for free, because THEY DON'T HAVE ANY! Enjoy buffs to 90% of your units as well, because this codex is just so amazing and you have to run out and buy it!" and instead generally just focused on the new, usually pretty large model releases that came in the new book.

"LOOK how easily these five custodes killed 30 ork boyz! Don't even think about how something that's mathematically good against horde armies in 8th is by default even better when pointed at more expensive elite units! you gotta get this book right now!"

When was that? That sums up 2nd quite nicely. Bring Eldar/Tyranids/CSM and autowin.

It seems like each new codex seems to be the best with each release so it could actually be a blessing in disguise to get your race updated later on down the line.

 Primark G wrote:
It seems like each new codex seems to be the best with each release so it could actually be a blessing in disguise to get your race updated later on down the line.

Nothing's yet to surpass Imperial Guard, and Grey Knights and Ademptus Mechanicus were just plain garbage even on release. Dark Angels are looking pretty mediocre too.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:


Eldar are in the best position, without a doubt. However, at the end of the day, you will be able to choose units from 2 *maybe* 3 codices to fill out your list.

Chaos will choose from 4-6 codices at least.

Imperial will choose from upwards of 10.

Everyone else will get 1, once GW is done building the Imperial/Chaos library of codices.

Thanks for playing.

Ehh 6 of those Imperials are just different flavours of Space Marine. If you’re making a Soup list, being able to choose from Vanilla, Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Space Wolf, Grey Knights or Deathwatch doesn’t make you manifestly more powerful than just being able to choose a couple of units from any one of those Codexes. For example, being allowed to choose a Deathwatch Kill-Team doesn’t make your Guilliman+Hellblasters or Lemartes+Death Company more powerful.

Ultimately Imperial Soup lets you pick from Guard, Sisters, Mechanicum, Inquisition hodge-podge and a hundred irrelevant permutations of Space Marine. So five factions really (6 if this Codex pulls Custodes out of the Inquisiton hodge-podge).

Something to keep in mind is that 40k is based around a central theme. That theme is: The Imperium of Man versus The Forces of Chaos. This is especially true following the events that created the universe of 8th edition.

Sure, the Xenos races play a part in keeping the whole grim dark “we’re hopelessly surrounded” vibe going, but they will never be pivotal to the overall flow of the universe. Custodes are, they played a huge role in what happened to the Imperium directly following the gathering storm story arcs.

The blow Chaos just struck dwarfs any threat all the xenos races combined are capable of being. Tera almost fell, the astronomicon fell silent for months to years depending on where the world was in relation to Tera. The Black Legion almost isolated Tera from the rest of the universe permanently. Why would GW be prioritizing anything other than Imperium and Chaos books with that as the current setting of their game?

orkychaos wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that 40k is based around a central theme. That theme is: The Imperium of Man versus The Forces of Chaos. This is especially true following the events that created the universe of 8th edition.

Sure, the Xenos races play a part in keeping the whole grim dark “we’re hopelessly surrounded” vibe going, but they will never be pivotal to the overall flow of the universe. Custodes are, they played a huge role in what happened to the Imperium directly following the gathering storm story arcs.

The blow Chaos just struck dwarfs any threat all the xenos races combined are capable of being. Tera almost fell, the astronomicon fell silent for months to years depending on where the world was in relation to Tera. The Black Legion almost isolated Tera from the rest of the universe permanently. Why would GW be prioritizing anything other than Imperium and Chaos books with that as the current setting of their game?

So your argument against Xenos players feeling like they take a backseat to Imperium/Chaos releases is that... they're supposed to take a back seat? It's a wonder that anyone plays Xenos at all if this is the attitude towards their various factions.

orkychaos wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that 40k is based around a central theme. That theme is: The Imperium of Man versus The Forces of Chaos. This is especially true following the events that created the universe of 8th edition.

Sure, the Xenos races play a part in keeping the whole grim dark “we’re hopelessly surrounded” vibe going, but they will never be pivotal to the overall flow of the universe. Custodes are, they played a huge role in what happened to the Imperium directly following the gathering storm story arcs.

The blow Chaos just struck dwarfs any threat all the xenos races combined are capable of being. Tera almost fell, the astronomicon fell silent for months to years depending on where the world was in relation to Tera. The Black Legion almost isolated Tera from the rest of the universe permanently. Why would GW be prioritizing anything other than Imperium and Chaos books with that as the current setting of their game?

Thank you captain obvious of da lore. Sorry for giving a sh*t about making your gaming experience as well as our own more than power armor and skin bags with tanks. Oh wait 30k exists....

I guess us dirty xenos players should take your advice, and go spend money on a company that cares to support all their player base. Actually i wonder what would happen in the gw board room if that happened.

clownshoes wrote:


Thank you captain obvious of da lore. Sorry for giving a sh*t about making your gaming experience as well as our own more than power armor and skin bags with tanks. Oh wait 30k exists....

I guess us dirty xenos players should take your advice, and go spend money on a company that cares to support all their player base. Actually i wonder what would happen in the gw board room if that happened.

In other news, GW profits triple from the previous FY...

Say what you like about the Custodes codex coming out, but GW are doing everything right by the majority of their customers.

Guys, a codex would push back the rest by 2-3 weeks tops, if they are serious about having every codex out by summer's end. You are literally raging about how it's so unfair your codex has to wait an extra couple weeks because of this new army. It is so silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
...and instead generally just focused on the new, usually pretty large model releases that came in the new book.

You mean... like this codex has been? All I've seen is stuff hyping the new his and jetbikes and such. This is in fact an actual codex being released due to models, given it turns them from a half faction into a small but full faction.

It's not just a codex, it's an entire model range for an army that we didn't really need in the first place, while compared against several lines that are horribly out of date.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's not just a codex, it's an entire model range for an army that we didn't really need in the first place, while compared against several lines that are horribly out of date.

I suspect a new model range sells considerably better then an updated one. (which is why we've been seeing them)

let's say GW puts out a new plastic dark reaper kit (these guys are apparently "good" right now) sure people'll buy em but others will decide their fine cast ones are good eneugh.

put put out a genuinely NEW kit and people will have to buy it. and I suspect a brand new army sells in bigger numbers, because people aren't just buying "1 to supplement their existing army" but several to "build a new army"

 Fafnir wrote:
It's not just a codex, it's an entire model range for an army that we didn't really need in the first place, while compared against several lines that are horribly out of date.

Nothing is really needed. It's what people want. GW thinks more people are interested in a new custodes army than updating some older lines. They probably aren't wrong. Updating old lines is something you do between major releases, you don't back off new releases to make room for updates.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
It's not just a codex, it's an entire model range for an army that we didn't really need in the first place, while compared against several lines that are horribly out of date.

Nothing is really needed. It's what people want. GW thinks more people are interested in a new custodes army than updating some older lines. They probably aren't wrong. Updating old lines is something you do between major releases, you don't back off new releases to make room for updates.

this is pretty true. I also think the reason we're seeing so many small IoM armies is because of the nature of the beast. GW's going after low hanging fruit. stuff thats been in the settings background forever, has a eistablished background lore and a built in fan base. This obviously means mostly IoM stuff (and chaos stuff as GW is realizing that legion codexes could be big) but we also are seeing things like gene stealer cults.

I imagine we'll see future codexes for Xenos, but rather then genuinely new things it will be examples of that "low hanging fruit" I'd expect to see at least one Tau Auxillery army, (Gun'seva would proably the the safest choice for GW. But Kroot I think could be big) I could also see far sight enclaves becoming their own faction (by 8th edition they've had a century on their own, by Tau standards thats awhile) Eldar have the Ynnari.

New alien races though, I think that would be hard, MAYBE the Hrud or enslavers but I'm not sure they'd do as well as say.. admech custodes, death watch etc

orkychaos wrote:
Sure, the Xenos races play a part in keeping the whole grim dark “we’re hopelessly surrounded” vibe going, but they will never be pivotal to the overall flow of the universe. Custodes are, they played a huge role in what happened to the Imperium directly following the gathering storm story arcs.

They were a bit player in 30 year old lore fluff, they didn't exist as an army at all until last edition, I don't buy this naked rationalization in the slightest.

Orks have been a far more central faction to 40k for far longer than the Custodes.

Also, this statement is pretty dismissive of xenos players, but it does jibe with what I've been saying, it's Imperial/Chaos 40k, the xenos players are 2nd class customers that GW clearly doesn't value.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

Didn't people get to use the old editions codex when this was the case? I notice a lot of people keep saying it isn't as bad as the old days, but I always assumed in the old days worst case scenario they didn't take away the old codex like they did for 8th.