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The Az models are the only reason I started Haq to be honest shame there getting squatted.
Pretty sure this release is going to kill Infinity in my area completely, it was never particularly strong in the 1st place to be fair. I had armies for years before I actually met another player but more recently there was around 8 of us. CB have slowly whittled that down to 4 of us with there “Business” decisions and this is likely to finish it off.
Ultimately whatever bs line the company and there water carriers come out with, the fact remains they seem to be running the game towards the MtG style release schedule of release and kill, combined with GW’s worst practices and smattering of tax avoidance, racism and poor taste.
However if your fine with dropping £100’s on armies with an unknown but preordained use by date, then more power to you and I can understand it to an extent as infinity and it’s cybepunkish style setting has no real competition.
However I am done, no I won’t be melting my armies I just won’t be buying more. Likely I will sell my Aleph,Haqq,Ardinia,CI,Pan,JSA forces but keep my Nomads for old times sake well except for the teeny tiny corr stuff that’s going too.
Ironically enough I will still play Infinity but just through the RPG which has actual picked up a local following.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
Or just forget about this ITS nonsense and just play the game the way you want to. CB can say that a particular unit profile is "obsolete" all they like, but unless Carlos comes to my house and steals my PC, I don't care.
Apart from all those JSA units that were part of my Yu Jing army, of course. No fielding Keisotsu Butai instead of Zanshi to save a couple of points to upgrade my Invincible to a Multi-Rifle, for example. Or having Ko Dali leading my Tiger Soldiers.
I was under the impression this discussion was about Daedalus falls news and rumours.
edit But since you mentioned it, Ko Dali was something from the second edition and I think mistakes like her profile do not happen anymore,(almost) all JSA models, more or less, are still in the game and the rules not under Yu Jing but still available and playable.
In any case Last two NA2 armies videos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 15:29:36
Optional parts and plastic go hand in hand. Plastic basically has no material cost; its all in the investment you put into the mold, so adding extra bits is pretty trivial, but you have to have some pretty high sales figures to break even. Resin and metal work on better margins, but have more materials costs, so every piece added has a more direct impact on what the SKU needs to cost to break even.
The way GW does their models also has some aesthetic limitations to consider. There are a lot of kinds of details that don't work great in sprue plastic, though GW has done a pretty masterful job of hiding it over the years. There's a reason though, as GW has put more unique details on models, we've seen things far fewer kits with options in them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 15:46:42
I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.
Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.
Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.
SeanDrake wrote: The Az models are the only reason I started Haq to be honest shame there getting squatted.
Pretty sure this release is going to kill Infinity in my area completely, it was never particularly strong in the 1st place to be fair. I had armies for years before I actually met another player but more recently there was around 8 of us. CB have slowly whittled that down to 4 of us with there “Business” decisions and this is likely to finish it off.
Ultimately whatever bs line the company and there water carriers come out with, the fact remains they seem to be running the game towards the MtG style release schedule of release and kill, combined with GW’s worst practices and smattering of tax avoidance, racism and poor taste.
However if your fine with dropping £100’s on armies with an unknown but preordained use by date, then more power to you and I can understand it to an extent as infinity and it’s cybepunkish style setting has no real competition.
However I am done, no I won’t be melting my armies I just won’t be buying more. Likely I will sell my Aleph,Haqq,Ardinia,CI,Pan,JSA forces but keep my Nomads for old times sake well except for the teeny tiny corr stuff that’s going too.
Ironically enough I will still play Infinity but just through the RPG which has actual picked up a local following.
This is one of the most over-exaggerated post I've seen another very Silly Billy over-reaction post but if you're leaving take care God bless May the wind be at your back and May all your days be filled with sunshine.
Second thing plastic and multi-part don't have anything to do with each other if you actually owned a few of corvus belli core box as you would realize that the bodies of the same and at the heads and arms are different so that shoots whatever you said right into the gutter plastic and multi-part aren't the same that's another Silly Billy statement....
And lastly and I want you guys to really stop and think about this just for a minute it took Games Workshop almost 20 years to make a new Abaddon the Despoiler....
That SKU could have been pulled off the shelf years ago and everybody could have gotten a beautiful new model once every 10 years maybe something like that do you get where I'm going with this yet sheep minded GW fans coming new into the game or buying that garbage model for years and years and years so before you Heroes come charging in with your swords waving your flags you should stop and think about the garbage crap model you had to purchase from GW for for almost 20 years... is the model great yeah it's really cool am I going to buy one no Games Workshop doesn't get my money anymore because of their business practices....
Just give that some thought every single person reading these posts who owns a garbage 1952 Abaddon the despoiler model you go ahead and think about how you put 20 bucks into that garbage model and make the next one you're going to buy is going to be around what $40????
I'm done responding to all these texts and nobody here is even talking about the releases or the rules or anything else I'mma go ahead and check out on dakka for a little while and you guys can argue it out about who's going to be a fan after this and who's not
I'm going to go ahead and go to the Infinity forums where it's like minded people that aren't a bunch of and I'm just going to say it there's a lot of idiot round these parts...
I just realized I'm on a forum called DAKKA... trying to talk to a group of GW fans about a game they actually don't have any interest in and they're not really vested in the people I should be talking with this entire week or in a completely different form now I know why I stayed away from this form for so long...
Damn I wasted my my whole brand new release week here with you guys and all you did was sit and complain about Corvus SKUs and then not being your Games Workshop clone....
For the person who said it took them nine years to come up with operation ice storm and to be able to hit in the stores I'd like to remind you that Games Workshop started out in 1975 and they didn't get a major hit in the stores until the mid 90s...
For the longest time I was buying squatty little gross looking import models from them and their models can't hold a candle to a basic Infinity model... they even have memes comparing The Squatty Games workshop's models to a beautifully sculpted HaqqIslam heavy armored troop....
I'm done here this place is what I've come to expect from Dakka and nothing's actually changed here at all at all.
Faq you, faq you, faq you, faq you, faq you, You're cool, I'm out
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/14 16:06:45
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.
Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.
Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.
Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.
Wow, someone really has issues and needs to realize that just because people have different opinions doesn't mean there's some nefarious plot behind the scenes. I like Dakka because people don't agree and discussions can happen. I like Infinity (the only GW produced product I own is Silvertower but I do like the RPGs in the settings) while I probably have 1/3 the infinity as well as all the books in the RPG line so clearly I want CB to fail.
Is it just me or are NA2 armies becoming way more interesting the vanilla or sectorials? Maybe it's my bias towards JSA and Tohaa and me having lots of other random figures but I just don't see myself wanting to play anything else and none of the new non-NA2 stuff have really done anything for me.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.
Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.
Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.
Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.
Pretty much this. Not multipose but multipart. If CB sold me a box of Keisotsu (just an example as I was looking at them last night) that had bodies and arms to make any of the profiles they could cut down on a lot of extra SKU and sell more to me. Even if it's $5 more it would be worth it for me to just buy 2-3 boxes of them to get everything I wanted instead of 2 separate boxes that don't even give me half the profiles. Same with any AVA Total. Now if that did that with most profiles and they'd have half the SKUs they currently have. It's strange they're big into having miniatures to represent each weapon loadout when most units have 5+ but don't provide multipart kits to build what you want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 17:05:42
Monkeysloth wrote: Wow, someone really has issues and needs to realize that just because people have different opinions doesn't mean there's some nefarious plot behind the scenes. I like Dakka because people don't agree and discussions can happen. I like Infinity (the only GW produced product I own is Silvertower but I do like the RPGs in the settings) while I probably have 1/3 the infinity as well as all the books in the RPG line so clearly I want CB to fail.
Is it just me or are NA2 armies becoming way more interesting the vanilla or sectorials? Maybe it's my bias towards JSA and Tohaa and me having lots of other random figures but I just don't see myself wanting to play anything else and none of the new non-NA2 stuff have really done anything for me.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.
Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.
Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.
Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.
Pretty much this. Not multipose but multipart. If CB sold me a box of Keisotsu (just an example as I was looking at them last night) that had bodies and arms to make any of the profiles they could cut down on a lot of extra SKU and sell more to me. Even if it's $5 more it would be worth it for me to just buy 2-3 boxes of them to get everything I wanted instead of 2 separate boxes that don't even give me half the profiles. Same with any AVA Total. Now if that did that with most profiles and they'd have half the SKUs they currently have. It's strange they're big into having miniatures to represent each weapon loadout when most units have 5+ but don't provide multipart kits to build what you want.
As a guy coming from a GW game which is very WYSIWYG, it is a little jarring to come to Infinity and find it is very proxy heavy kind of game. I do not see how it would be a terrible burden to give us 1 of each weapon option in a box that has 4 guys in it. Most units only have 5 or 6 gun options to begin with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 17:27:10
As a guy coming from a GW game which is very WYSIWYG, it is a little jarring to come to Infinity and find it is very proxy heavy kind of game. I do not see how it would be a terrible burden to give us 1 of each weapon option in a box that has 4 guys in it. Most units only have 5 or 6 gun options to begin with.
Simple, would you buy the box if it was 5$ more? what if it was 10$ more because of the extra parts? would you buy two at that cost because you needed one extra model? if the answer is yes, how many people you expect to do the same and not be sticker shocked by the price?
How soon you will hear people complaining that poses are boring for all this interchangeable thing and boxes would be cheaper and models would be greater if they just split the box in two?
You may notice GW and extra stuff in their sprews in a relatively new thing and extra stuff in their metal/ resin castings is almost unheard of, both for some reasons, not necessarily greed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 18:19:54
It's that perpetual "get exactly what I need" kind of problem. Right now, the problem is that if you want a second of something, you need to buy a box of 4 to get that one model. Flip it around to singles and you get the problem if buying 1 probably at 1.33-1.5 cost with 2 sets of arms that you only can use one of and find yourself wanting to buy just bodies to use your extra arms.
Honestly, part of the problem is that the game isn't designed in a way that lines up practically with the way its sold. Personally, I think the better solution is to make most of the loadouts unique with likely a special rule for base combi stuff that are sold in multiples. The game is sold as armies of unique models so whenever there's an in game reason to double up it always feels a little... gamey.
This is a problem I had with Wyrd all through M2E and part of the reason I'm excited about how M3E is shaping up. Buying endless boxes of 3 sometimes 8 models for the one I needed built up this huge backlog of stuff that wasn't going to see the table. The lists I've been running in M3E line up far better with the way the game is actually sold and that's done wonders for making things more accessible.
I know there's no pleasing everyone as you two are saying but the extra arm options does solve the SKU and loadout issue we've been discussing.
Making most loadouts unique would really shake the game up and force people to try other units and profiles and solve the problem of people feeling forced to buy things they don't want but it doesn't solve the SKU bloat in addition to adding potential backlash for that significant rules change.
I find it hilarious that GW is being propped up as this role-model of miniatures production. GW models are currently amazing, but remember how many DECADES of being the number 1 miniatures producer on the market to get here.
Rant in 3...2...1...
Spoiler:
I remember building a Salamanders army for 3rd ed 40k in 2001 and not being able to get thunder hammers for power armor, they just flat out didn't exist. Or lightning claws. Or storm shields. "Rules say I can give my vet sergeants a signum? SWEET! What even is that?" You had to buy a metal terminator arm (plastic assault terminators did not exist), cut off the piece and try to make it fit on a power armor hand. Had to use metal multi-meltas and metal plasmaguns an meltaguns on plastic figures, because the plastic Tactical Squad only had a flamer and a missile launcher. Want a heavy Bolter or autocannon for your plastic Dreadnought? Make one from bits, they don't even make a metal one. GW had been making models for over 20 years by this point.
This problem of not having all the options has been around for decades, it's not unique to Infinity, and GW's method of solving it has instead been to limit in-game options to ONLY what comes in their boxes. That would be the WORST option for CB, can you imagine them stripping out all the profiles for models they don't produce? That's EXACTLY what GW has done, and they never gave you any advance warning. CB is squatting sectorials? Well no, they arentt, but even if they were the reason we use the term is because GW literally squatted the Squats. What's that, you collected Genestealer Cult in 2nd ed? Or Harlequins? What if you started a Kroot Mercenary army in 3rd? Well, we finally redid those armies 15 years later, hope you're still around. Except for Kroot. Or Feral Orks. Where's the 8th edition rules for Gnarlocs and squiggoths? Where's that Feral Orks list? What about that Gue'vasa unit I converted up becuase GW wouldn't make a model for it? And thank God I sold off my Tanith models a few years ago, I'd have to proxy them as...Catachans? Tallarn? Where's my statline for Larkin and Brin Milo?
CB isn't perfect, and they really do bloody well need to start making more multi-armed sets (the Myrmidon officer w/ boarding shotgun arm and multi rifle arms is my perfect example of how it should be done), but it's hardly a unique problem to Infinity. And after learning the hard lesson from squatting Exrah, they haven't removed any armies from the game when they discontinue production of models. Can you imagine GW saying "Oh, heads up guys, we're not going to make Mordians in 3 months so fill out your armys now, and ilso here's a new codex for them so you can stay competative in RTTs". No. GW has REPEATEDLY discontinued entire armies and left the players out to dry, players that needed to spend MUCH more money on those armies than any Infinity Sectorial.
But sure, please keep using GW as the example to live up to /sarcasm
Why can't we say CB can be better then they currently are and point to the market leader? Sure GW isn't perfect either and CB does things better then GW but at the same time it's more stupid to ignore GW's existence. Also we're really not referencing GW that much. But a lot of people just see those two letters and get upset.
CB has a SKU problem that they point to as a driving decision for things we, as fans, feel is bad for the game so we're looking at what can solve that issue outside of removing models. Why this triggers so many people I have no idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 19:16:35
Another way to solve the problem would be to make the arms and the guns separate, that way you could swap in the guns you want and pose them however you desire. Of course the drawback to this is that the model becomes more difficult to glue to glue together.
Another solution would be to create a kit like the Spec-Ops models, that have multiple guns in their blister. For those players who really care for accurate models, they can take the gun bitz and customize other models fairly cheaply (which is something I have done before). It does not resolve all of the problems (especially for unique or special weapons) but it does alleviate some of the headaches.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kalamadea wrote: I find it hilarious that GW is being propped up as this role-model of miniatures production. GW models are currently amazing, but remember how many DECADES of being the number 1 miniatures producer on the market to get here.
Rant in 3...2...1...
Spoiler:
I remember building a Salamanders army for 3rd ed 40k in 2001 and not being able to get thunder hammers for power armor, they just flat out didn't exist. Or lightning claws. Or storm shields. "Rules say I can give my vet sergeants a signum? SWEET! What even is that?" You had to buy a metal terminator arm (plastic assault terminators did not exist), cut off the piece and try to make it fit on a power armor hand. Had to use metal multi-meltas and metal plasmaguns an meltaguns on plastic figures, because the plastic Tactical Squad only had a flamer and a missile launcher. Want a heavy Bolter or autocannon for your plastic Dreadnought? Make one from bits, they don't even make a metal one. GW had been making models for over 20 years by this point.
This problem of not having all the options has been around for decades, it's not unique to Infinity, and GW's method of solving it has instead been to limit in-game options to ONLY what comes in their boxes. That would be the WORST option for CB, can you imagine them stripping out all the profiles for models they don't produce? That's EXACTLY what GW has done, and they never gave you any advance warning. CB is squatting sectorials? Well no, they arentt, but even if they were the reason we use the term is because GW literally squatted the Squats. What's that, you collected Genestealer Cult in 2nd ed? Or Harlequins? What if you started a Kroot Mercenary army in 3rd? Well, we finally redid those armies 15 years later, hope you're still around. Except for Kroot. Or Feral Orks. Where's the 8th edition rules for Gnarlocs and squiggoths? Where's that Feral Orks list? What about that Gue'vasa unit I converted up becuase GW wouldn't make a model for it? And thank God I sold off my Tanith models a few years ago, I'd have to proxy them as...Catachans? Tallarn? Where's my statline for Larkin and Brin Milo?
CB isn't perfect, and they really do bloody well need to start making more multi-armed sets (the Myrmidon officer w/ boarding shotgun arm and multi rifle arms is my perfect example of how it should be done), but it's hardly a unique problem to Infinity. And after learning the hard lesson from squatting Exrah, they haven't removed any armies from the game when they discontinue production of models. Can you imagine GW saying "Oh, heads up guys, we're not going to make Mordians in 3 months so fill out your armys now, and ilso here's a new codex for them so you can stay competative in RTTs". No. GW has REPEATEDLY discontinued entire armies and left the players out to dry, players that needed to spend MUCH more money on those armies than any Infinity Sectorial.
But sure, please keep using GW as the example to live up to /sarcasm
I don't think GW is perfect but they have, in recent times, given you all the bitz in the box - which is what people want. They do not want CB to become GW. They just want gun bitz in the box
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 19:26:56
ya, after having to try and put together the original capliso compared to beyond Red Veil I can say I don't think making things harder to assemble would be ideal but it would give a lot of flexibility.
As for weapon packs even just last year CB said no to them even though they use to put them in ITS packs (I have some) as they won't sell enough to justify the time (probably accurate).
If we're just throwing out new ideas team with shapeways and allow people to order the pose/loadout they want delivered for $20 a pop. No real loss on CB's part time wise, probably get more for that one figure then they do selling a metal one and people that really want a specific loadout can get it. It's not price friendly at all but it would work. Then just sell the main profile or two intended for that unit.
Red_Five wrote: I don't think GW is perfect but they have, in recent times, given you all the bitz in the box - which is what people want. They do not want CB to become GW. They just want gun bitz in the box
Kind of, GWs solution is to ONLY give you rules for stuff they already include in the box. If CB were to go that route, we'd just not have rules Securiate w/ Feuerbachs, because that's not an option in the box. I think that's a bigger problem (and a worse way to do it) than to have options that there with no models. Especially with CBs lax proxy rules.
I do wish there was some kind of Forgeworld for Infinity. But while CB has shown themselves more than happy to team up w/ other companies for terrain and accessories, licensing alt sculpts/arms for miniatures probably steps too closely to the one thing CB makes all their money on.
5deadly wrote: The Mukhtar is a total toolbox unit lots of ranges it can fight in with each option. 3 specialist options and a MSV2. It's hard to hit, it can get close, template on every profile and NWI to boot... seems pretty solid.
It is a fine looking unit on paper, but if I don't like the look of the mini, I do not buy the mini, no matter how effective the unit is. I'll see about proxies for it. For example: In my ASA, I use a dasyus hacker and a danavas in place of the naga hacker and minelayer because I dislike those minis.
Life is too short to waste time assembling and painting minis I don't like. The Dr Doom shout out of the Ayyar was tolerable, but now a profusion of hoodies... The guys are supposed to be elite soldiers, not gangbangers.
and I'm just going to say it there's a lot of idiot round these parts...
