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 LunarSol wrote:
The biker is Celty from Durarara!! for what its worth.

Super, super excited about this. JSA has been brewing in my collection for a while now and I just needed a little push to make it a painting priority.

Good thing you've bought some of those shiny new Shikami, RIGHT?!

List of 'safe' buys for the time being:
Domaru Butai box
JSA Support Pack(the sculpts in there were new barring the helper bots)
Shikami
'Neko' character Domaru
Raiden with HRL

 Kanluwen wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
... all I see is a little 'x'.

I wrote out the contents for you then.

Thank you. the image source might be work-blocked for me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Infinite wrote:"Delegate" sounds too much like "HVT" to me to believe it has a profile.

Monkeysloth wrote:
Edit: Also Kuge is a word for a Japanese Aristocrat. So I'm going with HVT.

The thing is that if it's an Army Pack ala the USARF one(which all signs point to--10 models, probably around 200-300 points)?
There's no "HVT" that was in there. Not a single model in that pack wasn't a pointed profile.
The Maverick that was included(Boarding Shotgun) also included the Dismounted version as a "limited time"(it was supposed to be a 'preorder bonus' but was basically just in the first few runs of the box) thing.


Now, it might be an HVT as a 'preorder bonus'...but it might also be an actual unit that's going to get stats like the Tohaa Diplomatic Delegate or Voronin.

Could be. I'm still leaning for HVT via pre-order but I wouldn't mind a 2-5pt filler figure as the game needs more of those.

Well this makes me, as a JSA player, quite happy. I can understand some people being upset about the leak but CB tends to drag out teasers too long to the point I loose interest. If the plan was an Adepticon reveal then I'm happy this leaked now instead of CB slowly teasing for another 5 weeks.

Absolutely. They have no concept of the idea of 'strike while the iron is hot'. It's like GW with Death Guard; they previewed them what 6-7 months out? It just becomes pointless "neiner neiner"-y.

If they'd been, say, teasing lore and dossiers for the new profiles? I think that would have been cool.

According to some Warcors on Facebook the review was supposed to be "soon" but to CB that could be anywhere from next week to 4 weeks.

Also CB complained to some affluent warcors that this leak upsets them as, and I quote, "CB sees these leaks as directly and negatively impacting their sales" which makes me really worry about CB's business acumen.

 Mothman wrote:
[/img]

its here

Thank you, too.

Looking at that pic, I bet the biker will be out of scale with the eight I already have. Not to mention I bet that helmet doesn't do her fuel consumption any favours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
List of 'safe' buys for the time being:
...
JSA Support Pack(the sculpts in there were new barring the helper bots)

The female one was new - came out around the release of N3 - but the bloke is older. Both of 'em are scaled to the smaller 2nd edition minis, but I don't suppose they're on the priority list for a resculpt.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Could be. I'm still leaning for HVT via pre-order but I wouldn't mind a 2-5pt filler figure as the game needs more of those.

Like I said; I'm just not thinking that a HVT is in the cards but some kind of cheap-ish order generating model or 'buffing' figure might be in there(A Strategos L1 or something).

According to some Warcors on Facebook the review was supposed to be "soon" but to CB that could be anywhere from next week to 4 weeks.

Also CB complained to some affluent warcors that this leak upsets them as, and I quote, "CB sees these leaks as directly and negatively impacting their sales" which makes me really worry about CB's business acumen.

This is a thing I've long been concerned about, privately, with them. They know that their insistence on not redoing whole lines means that people are (gasp) actually informed that reworks either:
A) Aren't coming
B) Not a priority
C) Coming later down the line

In the case of A or B, it has a 50/50 chance of completely turning someone off of a faction or making them lose interest in that faction. It also has a 50/50 chance of making someone shrug and just dive in headlong.

With C, people save up money or just don't bother with anything new until it gets redone.

I've harped on this so many times before that I was reluctant to bring it up here, but with Corregidor? I had zero interest in running it until we were told that it was going to be the start of a relaunched, revamped, consistent looking range.

Before I had it confirmed to me that CJC was going to be a consistent range, I spent $0 on Corregidor stuff. I had tried some time before to make a Bakunin list that had Moderators, Zeros, and Prowlers...but it turned into a disjointed mess thanks to the simple fact that the range wasn't great at the time.
When I had Corregidor confirmed into a consistent range for me? I was in. I bought 2 CJC starters, Wildcat with Spitfire, the Iguana, revamped Support Pack, the Tomcat blisters, all 3 of the Hellcats, the original Intruder with MSR resculpt blister(the one where he's got his pistol aimed down like he's going to execute someone or he's taunting them), the Tsyklon Sputniks, two boxes of Geckos so I could have 2 Mark-12s(sold the 2x Combis to a local player)...

Then Icestorm happened and pretty much everyone knows the rest. I got burned. I don't go in like that anymore on anything from CB until at least half the range is out.

See I'm a person that doesn't even care about resculpts 90% of the time as I don't care about mixing old and new but the very fact that they think that a leak about a revamp of the army that they've been teasing for 3 weeks is going to hurt sales is dumbfounding to me as that means:

1) they actually think that this and not teasing the army will lower sales of existing sculpts when everyone knows they're teasing resculpts

2) That the leak happening, at the earliest, one week before the reveal would actually lower sales of the new product as it's not an Apple "here's a new product that you can pre-order now" moment.

I think both of those support your complaints Kan about some people waiting to buy anything but their logic to get to my concerns really shows they're game designers first and business people 4th.

Timing hype and release certainly matters. People love their impulse buys after all and given a week with no way to offload their cash, can start making unfortunately rational decisions. It probably won't matter significantly, but I can certainly see how someone whose job it is to set up all the dominoes to maximize sales would get upset when someone knocks half of them over. Like it or not, people are way more predictable than we like to believe and marketing research is frighteningly accurate.

Would the problem they see not be revealing the army, but showing a warcore price of €75, when it will retail for €100?

I guess most people know they get it cheaper, but it could still be something they would try to avoid being show like this.

 LunarSol wrote:
Timing hype and release certainly matters. People love their impulse buys after all and given a week with no way to offload their cash, can start making unfortunately rational decisions. It probably won't matter significantly, but I can certainly see how someone whose job it is to set up all the dominoes to maximize sales would get upset when someone knocks half of them over. Like it or not, people are way more predictable than we like to believe and marketing research is frighteningly accurate.

Sadly true but what did CB expect when they trusted information with a large group of volunteers where a decent number of them actually don't do anything they're supposed to but reap benifits anyway. Don't give said volunteers information you don't want in the general public as they don't have any loyalty to CB.

NoggintheNog wrote:
Would the problem they see not be revealing the army, but showing a warcore price of €75, when it will retail for €100?

I guess most people know they get it cheaper, but it could still be something they would try to avoid being show like this.

The "problem" (in their minds at least) likely is that the old Japanese Sectorial Army starter, Oniwaban, Kempeitai, and Keisotsu Butai are still on sale.

 Kanluwen wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:
Would the problem they see not be revealing the army, but showing a warcore price of €75, when it will retail for €100?

I guess most people know they get it cheaper, but it could still be something they would try to avoid being show like this.

The "problem" (in their minds at least) likely is that the old Japanese Sectorial Army starter, Oniwaban, Kempeitai, and Keisotsu Butai are still on sale.

And it's a faction that sells very well from what we've been told.

It is a popular faction, but in a game with strong anime influences how is this surprising?

The minis:
3x Keisotsu Butai
1x Kempeitai
1x Kuroshi Rider, Aragato Senkenbutai Riku-Gun-Shoi (new unit)
2x Ryuken Unit-9 (new unit)
1xDaiyokai Dengekitai (new unit)
1x Kuge Delegate (new unit)
1x Oniwaban
--------------------------------------------
10 minis. And the pre-order mini is?

The rest of the items:
1x Tablero Juego (Papel)--paper play mat.
3x Dados JSA--Dice
1x Kurage Station Scenery Pack
1x Regla --rules
Marcadores y plantillas--markers and templates

The Oniwaban is the only thing not shown in that illustration. I have no idea which is the Kuge and which is the Daiyokai. I'd guess the Daiyokai is the HI in the back and the Kuge is the hacker. A HVT would be the likely LE mini, but also, possibly, a dismounted Cat Biker, a Kuroshi rider.

A nice looking army box. However, I have 65 Infinity mins that are just primed, so no new stuff for me until I reduce the pile o' shame to less shameful levels. And I don't want to start another sectorial. I have 300 points of Yu Jing. That's enough.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I have 65 Infinity mins that are just primed

Pfft, amateur.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It doesn't "have" to be anything. The points on starters are wildly variable if we're going to be honest.
USARF: 90 pts(without taking any FOs or anything special)
Nomad(vanilla): 132(same restrictions)
PanO(vanilla): 126(same)
etc
etc

No they really aren't, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
The average points for all starters is 133.9
The two biggest outliers are USARF at 90 points and NCA at 223.
Fourteen of the starters are within half a standard deviation of the mean, five are below it and four are above it.
It's quite clear that CB aim for about 130 points in a starter where they can, so we can take that value as a baseline.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Like I said, my speculation is centered around the fact that nothing in the only real army pack we saw before included nothing that couldn't be used for gaming(they continually suggested the dismounted Maverick be used as another FO Foxtrot) or that would effectively be a "dummy prize".

I don't think the Ryuken Unit-9 are going to be named, but they might be. I do think the Biker is going to be--just because of the ranking it has as well. I think that might be the 'special' model for the boxed set, since it would be a better example of a special boxed set model to discourage multiple discounted boxes being bought to bulk out an army(something that CB seems to have as their aims--"starter products are for starting, not for building armies!") quickly.

I take your point about the USARF army box, but that doesn't stop the Kuga from being a Beyonce-Mk.2 or possibly even a Voronin-esq Stratego/Advanced Command/Inspiring Presence buff bot LT on a non-combat frame and double as a JSA HVT, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what else is leaked.

I'm hoping the Ryuken are named characters, given how awesome the Major and Batou are it seems a waste to just have their likenesses.

The more I think about it, the more likely I think the biker is the box exclusive, with the Kuga the preorder exclusive. The Ryuken, depending on loadout could be fleshed out with one more release (Haris option) or a SWC box if they warrant it.

kinda wondering if Kuge Delegate is more along the lines of an imperial agent, as in, a soldier loyal to a given aristocrat, rather than an actual government delegate.

Or maybe its something ridiculous like a CSU-ish geisha.

But hey, we'll know soon.

 LunarSol wrote:
The biker is Celty from Durarara!! for what its worth.

it's also VERY close to a Robotech/MOSPEADA CVR-3 Cyclone armor helmet (sans the cat-ears), not a good enough pic of the bike to tell if it's the same as the old Aragato ones. Now I want a transforming Kuroshi Rider profile that turns from a bike into a HI, like the Su-Jian dual profile. No reason whatsoever to think it'll be a transforming motorcycle, pure wishlisting on my part. But seriously, how awesome would that be?**

Absolutely. They have no concept of the idea of 'strike while the iron is hot'. It's like GW with Death Guard; they previewed them what 6-7 months out? It just becomes pointless "neiner neiner"-y.

If they'd been, say, teasing lore and dossiers for the new profiles? I think that would have been cool

Yeah, I've long learned to curb too much enthusiasm for CB previews, leak or not. Even stuff that's got a full digital render is a few months out by the time it gets produced, released and finally shipped overseas. Fortunately, CB does sometimes keep these major things secret until right before it gets a release, hopefully this is one of those times because if JSA is just part of their normal release schedule it won't matter if it's 5 weeks early. Not much difference between waiting 6 months and 7




** Pretty darn freakin awesome is how!

 The Infinite wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It doesn't "have" to be anything. The points on starters are wildly variable if we're going to be honest.
USARF: 90 pts(without taking any FOs or anything special)
Nomad(vanilla): 132(same restrictions)
PanO(vanilla): 126(same)
etc
etc

No they really aren't, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
The average points for all starters is 133.9
The two biggest outliers are USARF at 90 points and NCA at 223.
Fourteen of the starters are within half a standard deviation of the mean, five are below it and four are above it.
It's quite clear that CB aim for about 130 points in a starter where they can, so we can take that value as a baseline.

NCA was pre-Icestorm. It was pre-N3 even.

Starting with Icestorm and looking at, primarily, the stuff designed around then:
PanO: 1.5 SWC 126 pts
Nomads: 1.5 SWC 132pts
Combined Army: 2.5 SWC 150pts(you have to play fast and loose with this one to add a Hacker OR a Lt option--otherwise it ends up being quite in the 130ish range)
USARF: 0SWC 90 pts, as mentioned
Yu Jing Imperial Service: 3.5SWC 150pts*
Yu Jing: 2.5 SWC 158pts
Haqqislam: .5 SWC 135pts
Hassassin Bahram: .5SWC 108pts
Shock Army of Aconticemento: 5SWC 150pts(can't be played)*
Bakunin: 3SWC and 130pts(being generous here since the Morlock is just wielding an AP CCW)*
Caledonia: 0SWC 125 pts(with a mandatory upgraded Volunteer to Medic and being padded out with T2 Rifles)
Exact timeframes aren't necessarily accurate; these are just the ones I'm certain were post-N3.

So yeah, we've got a few that are around the 130 point mark...and we've got quite a few that aren't.

Are we getting back on that old "they shouldnt be called starter packs" argument again?

 Micky wrote:
Are we getting back on that old "they shouldnt be called starter packs" argument again?

No, because there's never really been that big of an argument over it.

Simply put: There is no real rhyme or reason behind what happens with these boxes aside from they have 6 models.
Most of these boxes will contain 3 of the factions Ava Total unit, armed with its basic weapon. We're starting to see exceptions here though.
SAA is an exception in this regards as it has 2 Rifles and 2 specialist weapons. Bakunin is an exception since it only has 2 Moderators. Bahram is an exception since one of the models requires you to field it as a specialized profile. Caledonia is an exception since it has one of the Volunteers rocking the Medic profile.
Most of these boxes will contain one specialized troop type that is supposed to be emblematic of that faction/Sectorial.
Most of the boxes aren't exceedingly crowded on Special Weapons Cost.

Sampler boxes is the best name for them. Now, to important stuff. Some clarifications.

The Daiyokai is S5. The Kuge delegate is an HVT. The hacker in the illustration is Ryuken.

Micky, funny you mentioned CSU-Geisha... very funny.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Timing hype and release certainly matters. People love their impulse buys after all and given a week with no way to offload their cash, can start making unfortunately rational decisions. It probably won't matter significantly, but I can certainly see how someone whose job it is to set up all the dominoes to maximize sales would get upset when someone knocks half of them over. Like it or not, people are way more predictable than we like to believe and marketing research is frighteningly accurate.

Sadly true but what did CB expect when they trusted information with a large group of volunteers where a decent number of them actually don't do anything they're supposed to but reap benifits anyway. Don't give said volunteers information you don't want in the general public as they don't have any loyalty to CB.

I was a Warcor form day 1 until last August. You're right that a lot of Warcors don't do anything. But what benefits do you think they're "reaping"? Aside from access to the Warcor only forum thread (which is just awful, even more so than the normal forum) the only real benefit Warcors get is once a year being able to pre-order releases like this. Yes, we got an okay discount, but we also had to pay ridiculously high shipping costs, which totally offset the discount. What that meant was often we would get our set a few weeks ahead of everyone else (although sometimes it was only a week or two), but we'd often end up paying more, especially compared to people who ordered through sites or stores offering a discount. So it wasn't actually a huge benefit.

Warcors would SOMETIMES learn about new releases a few days before everyone else, but it was much more common for the info to show up from other sources. I don't know how many times we'd all show up to the Warcor forum and saying "hey, my local players are saying that they saw pics of the new XXXXXX on some site. Anyone know about this?" Even when we got official previews, it was often the same day as the public preview.

Other benefits? Umm... you could order a t-shirt and an exclusive version of the Warcor model with a different head. You had to pay for both, and shipping was stupidly expensive, as I said before. Oh, we did get a discount on tournament packs, but again, shipping made them super expensive. It was cheaper to just ask the local store to order them at full price.

Maybe things have changed in the last few months? I don't know. But for the years I was involved there wasn't a lot of benefit And while some people did just sign up and do nothing, a lot of us worked super hard to keep the game alive and build player bases in our towns.

 jake wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Timing hype and release certainly matters. People love their impulse buys after all and given a week with no way to offload their cash, can start making unfortunately rational decisions. It probably won't matter significantly, but I can certainly see how someone whose job it is to set up all the dominoes to maximize sales would get upset when someone knocks half of them over. Like it or not, people are way more predictable than we like to believe and marketing research is frighteningly accurate.

Sadly true but what did CB expect when they trusted information with a large group of volunteers where a decent number of them actually don't do anything they're supposed to but reap benifits anyway. Don't give said volunteers information you don't want in the general public as they don't have any loyalty to CB.

I was a Warcor form day 1 until last August. You're right that a lot of Warcors don't do anything. But what benefits do you think they're "reaping"? Aside from access to the Warcor only forum thread (which is just awful, even more so than the normal forum) the only real benefit Warcors get is once a year being able to pre-order releases like this. Yes, we got an okay discount, but we also had to pay ridiculously high shipping costs, which totally offset the discount. What that meant was often we would get our set a few weeks ahead of everyone else (although sometimes it was only a week or two), but we'd often end up paying more, especially compared to people who ordered through sites or stores offering a discount. So it wasn't actually a huge benefit.

.

I was mostly being facetious as people elsewhere have been treating this leak as the "end of the warcore" due to how huge a betrayal this is what with everything CB "does for them". There's not really an eye roll orkmoticon so the sarcasm got lost. CB would be really dumb to get rid of their free advertising corp.

But, but, the Magno warcor mini

I found certain Warcors to be very,very irritating with their "I know something you don't know" attitude. Not you Jake. But you knew that. And certain other WarCors, the iN-crowd types, exhibited a certain condescension for other Infinity players. To be fair, they were that way before there was a WarCor program.

Considering these sorts seem to have nearly vanished from the regular forums, and probably hang out exclusively in the WarCor forum, I completely believe you that it is just awful.

The Warcors local to me ran tournaments, and the new ones still do. They also involve themselves in some large tournaments too. They at least do something. Plus, they're not iN-crowders.

It was a Spanish WarCor who leaked this, or someone who was viewing the Spanish language store. This assumes that CB did not leak it themselves to get the hype train moving.. The timing of this leak, like a few others, is a bit too convenient.

The price of the army box is outside of impulse buy range for many so leaking info now allows people to plan for the purchase. Marketers are keenly aware of price point sensitivities too.

 Red Harvest wrote:
But, but, the Magno warcor mini

I found certain Warcors to be very,very irritating with their "I know something you don't know" attitude. Not you Jake. But you knew that. And certain other WarCors, the iN-crowd types, exhibited a certain condescension for other Infinity players. To be fair, they were that way before there was a WarCor program.

Considering these sorts seem to have nearly vanished from the regular forums, and probably hang out exclusively in the WarCor forum, I completely believe you that it is just awful.

Yeah, it is really unfortunate that so many of the people who were so obnoxious in the regular forum made it into the Warcor program. I love CB as a company and I've had great interactions with many of their employees and many other Warcors, but I also left the program partially because some of the Warcors were absolutely unbearably awful and i just didn't want to participate anymore. But i know some of these real donkey-caves also did a pretty good job with their actual Warcor duties and were an actual benefit to their local playerbase. So I have real mixed feelings about them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 jake wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Timing hype and release certainly matters. People love their impulse buys after all and given a week with no way to offload their cash, can start making unfortunately rational decisions. It probably won't matter significantly, but I can certainly see how someone whose job it is to set up all the dominoes to maximize sales would get upset when someone knocks half of them over. Like it or not, people are way more predictable than we like to believe and marketing research is frighteningly accurate.

Sadly true but what did CB expect when they trusted information with a large group of volunteers where a decent number of them actually don't do anything they're supposed to but reap benifits anyway. Don't give said volunteers information you don't want in the general public as they don't have any loyalty to CB.

I was a Warcor form day 1 until last August. You're right that a lot of Warcors don't do anything. But what benefits do you think they're "reaping"? Aside from access to the Warcor only forum thread (which is just awful, even more so than the normal forum) the only real benefit Warcors get is once a year being able to pre-order releases like this. Yes, we got an okay discount, but we also had to pay ridiculously high shipping costs, which totally offset the discount. What that meant was often we would get our set a few weeks ahead of everyone else (although sometimes it was only a week or two), but we'd often end up paying more, especially compared to people who ordered through sites or stores offering a discount. So it wasn't actually a huge benefit.

.

I was mostly being facetious as people elsewhere have been treating this leak as the "end of the warcore" due to how huge a betrayal this is what with everything CB "does for them". There's not really an eye roll orkmoticon so the sarcasm got lost. CB would be really dumb to get rid of their free advertising corp.

Gotcha. I thought I'd explain my own experiences since I know sometimes there was a misconception (partially fostered by some Warcors even) that CB was giving us a lot for free stuff and a lot of secret info.

It was much appreciated so I'm glad you posted it.

The batou looking guy is definitely a ryuken, says so on his shoulder. That leaves the major to be the delegate or a pilot for the S5 daemon or maybe even the controller of a gsynced daemon. Or maybe daemon in the name refers to ai and they are a pair and jsa gets ghost:jumper.

Henshini wrote:
The batou looking guy is definitely a ryuken, says so on his shoulder. That leaves the major to be the delegate or a pilot for the S5 daemon or maybe even the controller of a gsynced daemon. Or maybe daemon in the name refers to ai and they are a pair and jsa gets ghost:jumper.

The Delegate isn't in the box art. The S5 Heavy Infantry isn't related to it.

The 'Major' also has the same pauldron as not-Batou.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Good thing you've bought some of those shiny new Shikami, RIGHT?!

List of 'safe' buys for the time being:
Domaru Butai box
JSA Support Pack(the sculpts in there were new barring the helper bots)
Shikami
'Neko' character Domaru
Raiden with HRL

Sadly, I pretty much own nothing in the realm of modern JSA sculpts. Definitely expecting to rebuy a few things on this one. :(

I'd imagine that won't be too big of a deal. Provided you keep with the 'safe' buys for the time being. Definitely get those Shikami ASAP.

Infinity is definitely not a game where rebuys are a huge deal; particularly if you're talking a sectoral and not a faction.