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My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.

You realize right that the backlash can have ZERO EFFECT to the summer release? Those were decided already like half a year ago! By now basically entire this year's schedule is decided and rolling along. It would be way too late to change because of what happened this weekend. ESPECIALLY next release. Hah! What? You think they are going to release NOTHING next just to postpone next release for later to avoid further backlash? You realize how much nothing to release next release slot would cost them in terms of money? Too much for it to be worth it. Even if it would be possible which it likely isn't.

It's not like GW is sitting on bunch of releases thinking "what to release next week?" and somehow get all the decided releases in stores in ready. Oh no. They have large lead times. While they have SOME leeway generally things don't get changed on a whim as it costs bloody lot of money to do so.

I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated.

Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases. These projects have long lead times sure but it's not like they work on one at a time. There could be ten or twenty ongoing projects at any one time with various stages of 'completion'. All GW would need to do is shift there resources to another project and halt one to change up their schedule, something I think a company of their magnitude would be able to do.

I think you vastly overestimate the importance of a few people whinging on the internet.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated

Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...

Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.

Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...

Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.

 Azreal13 wrote:
My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?

I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.

He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.

Well I play thousand sons and admech, so I've got mine...but feel free to call me salty, as I love Chinese food and beef jerky.

I still think more power armor is bad for the game(not the same thing as bad for profits).

Yeah yeah, but they are girls(trademark). Just another flavor of marine.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
What they should do is bring sisters back down to a custodes/sisters of silence/deathwatch level army, function as an allied force mainly, and in doing this release a battle sisters kit. Then slowly expand over the years to bring them back up to a full army standard, like they are starting to do with custodes. Plastic basic sisters will sell well as many people will want them (even I would, and I detest sisters mainly because of whinging sisters players) and just start working from there.

It will appease the fans, long term sisters players will be able to play and expand their army with the new kit and the index and then just start the process of completely updating the army from there on a slow burn.

This would be suicide for the line. One new kit wouldn't bring new players in and a single plastic battle sisters kit would get an incredibly tepid response from SoB players as most wouldn't see a significantly compelling reason to upgrade. It kind of worked with custodes and SoS because there were no other options...and they had HH stuff too. If it was a new kit, everyone who plays sisters would buy 1 or 2 and then things would be exactly same as they are now except with 1 new index entry.

It would also be met by either indifference or anger by the fans as it's basically a 'feth yourself' to the people who've waited this long for SoB.

Basically it's a good goddam thing you're not on GW's strategy team...or are you? Because I'm thinking you might be the guy who told them 'AoS outta fricken nowhere!' Was a good idea.

And hey! You detest Sisters for the same reason I detest Chaos!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bulldogging wrote:
Well I play thousand sons and admech, so I've got mine...but feel free to call me salty, as I love Chinese food and beef jerky.

I still think more power armor is bad for the game(not the same thing as bad for profits).

Yeah yeah, but they are girls(trademark). Just another flavor of marine.

Interesting coming from someone who plays 'blue marines' and '4+ save' marines.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated

Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...

Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.

Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...

Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.

I work for a manufacturer in the UK and I can guarantee that we sit on certain releases for a long time until the timing is considered best. Completely different products and markets but still relevant I think.

Basic project management, as I explained prior, means that organisations tend to have more than one project ongoing at any one time, a number of which can be shuffled around to meet requirements. The longer the lead time the more projects tend to be ongoing and the less flexibility they have in manipulating this to suit customers' needs.

"A couple of people whining" yesterday are significantly more than those asking for plastic sisters. Significantly more.

When was the last time GW updated an army with just one Kit, excluding Clampack characters? They have introduced a number of armies with a boxed set (Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Adeptus Custodies, Sister of Silence) and then turned around and expanded with a full release (or Forge World releases), but not just put out one kit and called it good.

They will certainly leave Sisters alone until they can do a full on release of at least Harlequin, Cult Mechanicus, or Skitarri size. That's just their MO for new army or army upgrade releases.

I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm quite certain that I they'd have scope to change the release schedule as required. They have already done this (not through choice) with the plague crawler thing that didn't release anywhere near when it was anticipated

Anticipiated or when GW had said they would be released? You realize players anticipiating does not mean it's going to be released then...

Unless you have information the rest of us don't have access to, I don't think it's impossible that GW are 'sitting' on a number of releases.

Basic logic? Kits sitting in warehouse COST MONEY TO THE GW! You really think they are BURNING MONEY DELIBERATELY just to have some shuffle room with release schedule for internet whining? Seriously? Not to mention they need to then after decision get those kits from warehouses to stores...

Generally companies hate keeping stuff in warehouse longer than required. Ideally they would have NONE WHATSOEVER in warehouses with all the production going immediately to stores to be sold but since that's not possible they have warehouses. But they sure don't keep big pile of products to shuffle around based on internet whining which is not even true representation of customer bases. Any company obeying whining at the internet would be pretty stupid seeing unhappy ones are always loudest leading to seriously inaccurate image if you just rely on that.

I work for a manufacturer in the UK and I can guarantee that we sit on certain releases for a long time until the timing is considered best. Completely different products and markets but still relevant I think.

Basic project management, as I explained prior, means that organisations tend to have more than one project ongoing at any one time, a number of which can be shuffled around to meet requirements. The longer the lead time the more projects tend to be ongoing and the less flexibility they have in manipulating this to suit customers' needs.

"A couple of people whining" yesterday are significantly more than those asking for plastic sisters. Significantly more.

Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.

And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.

 Galas wrote:
I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)

Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.

I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.

 Galas wrote:
I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)

In the past maybe but with how 'gunliney' marines have gotten i'd say it's shifted back over.

They even have clear analogues: Tread robots=Hellblasters; Big robots=Centurions (even both have melee options!) Redemptor=Dunecrawler Guillamen= Cawl...it goes on.

They're basically the same army except one's harder to paint.

 Immortalized wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?

I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.

He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.

Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?

There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.

None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)

Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.

I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.

And that's fine, but you're not trying to trade YOUR army for Xenos atm, you're trying to trade MINE. And that's quite rude.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Immortalized wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?

I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.

He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.

Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?

There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.

None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.

Taking a conversation someone had with a GW store manager with a grain of salt is probably wise, and I can understand that the internet is full of trolls, but not everyone is a Troll.

I even indicated in my earlier posts in this thread I was hoping someone had heard something similar and asked as such.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Immortalized wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
My only question: is the OP the troller or the trollee?

I am in no way trolling, and in fact find trolling rediculous. Just passing on what transpired via a conversation between two guys who enjoying modeling and the hobby. Like I said he was very matter of fact and was passing on hope to me as I was telling him how much I want plastic sisters.

He also in no way shape or form appeared to me to be trolling.

Well, of course he wouldn't, would he?

There's several factors that are going to work against you here, firstly, this is the nth "plastic Sisters are totes on the way" thread, and, Celestine aside, no other thread has ever come to anything. Secondly, "the local GW guy told me" is about as unreliable a source as the local crack addled hobo, and finally, GW don't tend to share as far ahead of time with the great unwashed of their retail masses as this, typically even big news like new editions or games are revealed at short notice meetings only days or a few weeks ahead of release. Not October for a summer release.

None of this makes it impossible, of course, but anyone should be dumping salt all over this until/unless there's something corroborating from some place else.

Honestly, it's kinda fun getting these sort of rumors. Like setting traps for santa. You know you'll never catch anything but at least there's a journey!

At least until the hatedom comes out...speaking of; sayonara everyone, got what I needed from this. See you at the LVO reveal!

ERJAK wrote:
Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.

And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.

There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.

I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?

My source for the discontinuation of the Dark Imperium Box is extremely reliable.

Of plastic sisters I can make no comment.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.

And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.

There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.

I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?

It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.

ERJAK wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I wouldn't call Admech 4+ marines. They are more similar to Imperial Tau. (Thats why I didn't started an army even loving the models, because they play so similar to Tau)

Space skaven. Radiation in place of warp stone radiation. Even the way the rust stalkers and infiltrators attack in the codex is skaven like, and the expendable servitors etc. They are imperial though which is obviously almost as big a problem as power armor.

I do play blue dusty golem Marines though, no doubt. And I say this with sincerity, I would be fine with thousand sons getting removed for more xenos and non power armor. feth, I'd even trade half of the existing power armor factions for one more xenos.

And that's fine, but you're not trying to trade YOUR army for Xenos atm, you're trying to trade MINE. And that's quite rude.

My wording was bad, by remove I mean consolidate. Put sisters into a big book of "not marine...Marines" with some of the other imperial stuff. Thousand sons back into "spikey marine...Marines". Etc. The game has too many "full range" humans in power armor.

Don't worry though, chances of them removing a power armor army is next to 0. If anything I'd expect primaris sisters. Then people can have normal girl marines next to roided girl marines being reinforced by gold ubermarines-not Marines, plus some random color ubermarines, with allied normal Marines, with some silver not marine-marines.

 ImAGeek wrote:
It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.

You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.

You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?

The amount of dissent against something on the internet ultimately doesn’t prove anything.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Bull motherfething gak. You're just straight up making stuff up now. Like 600 people between facebook/Dakka/Bols/faeit/B&C make up more people than have been asking for SoB for years. There were more 'plastic SoB when?' comments on the 2017 review video than their were hate comments on the custodes reveal.

And here's an interesting bit for ya, there weren't even as many people outraged as there were excited for new custodes, the difference is people who ARE excited LEAVE. And at least 20% of the people pissed about custodes are still going to buy custodes.

There were more negative comments that positive ones regarding the custodes so I don't think there are more people excited. Might be wrong. Certainly don't know. Neither do you. Not sure where you got the 20% of people pissed about custodes are still going to buy them either? That makes quite literally no sense.

I feel like you're taking this personally, I couldn't care less if plastic SOB are released or not, I got like a ton of Orks to paint anyways so I'm set. I'm just speculating as to the likelihood of plastic sisters in Summer, which, as I've said, I think is unlikely. Might be wrong. Who knows, who cares?

Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.

The Adeptus Custodies video has (as of my last check) 41,659 View with 349 Likes and 25 Dislikes. So the 93% Like versus dislike means the world loves this upcoming release right? YouTube doesn't lie!

Is this the first "Sisters of Battle are coming!" thread of 2018? At least if it does happen this year OP can say they got the ball rolling!

If what some have said here on Dakka and elsewhere is true, that they're choosing to expand the model lines that sell well, and are preferring to create new models rather than remake old ones, it's not a good outlook for a lot of armies.

It feels like the reason a lot of these other armies don't sell as well compared to say Space Marines, is that they don't receive nearly the same level of exposure and new releases. Remember when Orks were in the starter kit for 40k, Black Reach or whatever? I don't have any numbers but I'd bet a ton of people started Ork armies then, just as we've seen a ton of people starting Death Guard armies nowadays.

tl;dr, from the outside, it seems like a vicious cycle that's keeping the less popular armies down. Though I'm hardly the first person to think so.

The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.

tneva82 wrote:
Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.

Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?

 ImAGeek wrote:
The amount of dissent against something on the internet ultimately doesn’t prove anything.

Well it kinda does. Particularly when we look at other announcements that have been met with much more favourable responses. If every announcement GW made was like the one yesterday I would be sitting here agreeing with you both, but the fact is - it was entirely different. The reaction from the community was significantly more negative than "normal" (whatever that is) and I think it's that which speaks volumes.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

Spoiler:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.

I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Not really -it will depend on how AC sell.

Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc

If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.

Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.

The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.

How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.

25 Dislikes

Ergo: 25 players are Xenos players.....

If it's relevent there's a poll I did in General discussion which aptly demonstrates Dakka's views of the Custodes release and it's timing.