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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The thing that has me a little concerned about this codex, second hand I guess since I'm not a player of it, is the fact that this system of splitting faction traits three ways leaves a lot of units out of it. Scourges, Mandrakes, Incubi ect.
   
Made in pl
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine





Oh boy, I've been missing my 5 Talos Pain Engines so much and here they are, allegedly the most improved unit in the whole army! Not to mention Reavers and Scourges... I'm quite optimistic.

Drukhari - 4.7k
Space Marines - 3.1k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Harlequins - 0.9k
 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






changemod wrote:
The thing that has me a little concerned about this codex, second hand I guess since I'm not a player of it, is the fact that this system of splitting faction traits three ways leaves a lot of units out of it. Scourges, Mandrakes, Incubi ect.


They would never have gotten traits anyway. There outsiders from the background.

Think auxillia for guard. They are similar to rattling or bulgryn units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 18:54:12


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Out of the three I mentioned, only mandrakes actually fit that description.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

changemod wrote:
Out of the three I mentioned, only mandrakes actually fit that description.

Warhammer Community wrote:The forces of the Drukhari are broadly divided into three categories – Kabals, Wych Cults, and Haemonculus Covens (not to mention free agents like the Incubi or Scourges).


Games Workshop disagrees with your assessment.
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Hopefully the FAQ/Errata helps older books and index armies, but excited for our oft neglected Dark Eldar friends.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






changemod wrote:
Out of the three I mentioned, only mandrakes actually fit that description.


You should read some back ground then, it's pretty good stuff I think. Incubi are mysterious outsiders that are contracted to protect the archon because he can't trust his own. They aren't even seen outside their armor and nobody messes with them or their alters. Scourge pay haemonculi handsomely to be modified so they can contract themselves in a similar manner to spy and deliver messages between rivals.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




What is with this place and arbitrary condescension?

I simply said that dividing traits into three sub groups left a lot of units out. Had it been done as traits for Dark Eldar as a whole, then both scourges and incubi would fit. As is, they are left out specifically because they aren't aligned to kabals, cults or covens which are the three divisions given traits.

And since I don't feel like another argument tonight I'll pre-clarify that I'm not suggesting they should have done it differently, just noting that it means an unusually large chunk of the codex is left out.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

changemod wrote:
What is with this place and arbitrary condescension?

I simply said that dividing traits into three sub groups left a lot of units out. Had it been done as traits for Dark Eldar as a whole, then both scourges and incubi would fit. As is, they are left out specifically because they aren't aligned to kabals, cults or covens which are the three divisions given traits.

And since I don't feel like another argument tonight I'll pre-clarify that I'm not suggesting they should have done it differently, just noting that it means an unusually large chunk of the codex is left out.


Yeah but they are supposed to be left out. If they had done the traits like other factions, they'd still have been left out.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




One thing that i am not looking forward to with this codex - especially if it is as strong as i'm starting to think it is... Is that all the people that want "soup" banned/restricted are going to be wailing hysterically.

There is going to be a lot of Dark Eldar soup lists out there looking to benefit from at least 2 of the 3 traits and warlord traits.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Kdash wrote:
One thing that i am not looking forward to with this codex - especially if it is as strong as i'm starting to think it is... Is that all the people that want "soup" banned/restricted are going to be wailing hysterically.

There is going to be a lot of Dark Eldar soup lists out there looking to benefit from at least 2 of the 3 traits and warlord traits.

I mean, the people who object to soup are mostly objecting to inter-faction soup. The 3 detachment limit that most tournaments use actually ends up making it very hard to include Dark Eldar in Eldar soup. I think that basically no one is going to object to bringing both a Cabal and a Cult detachment.
   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





A lor of codices have units left out of the main faction stuff. Demons in CSM forces for instance.




 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Kdash wrote:
One thing that i am not looking forward to with this codex - especially if it is as strong as i'm starting to think it is... Is that all the people that want "soup" banned/restricted are going to be wailing hysterically.

There is going to be a lot of Dark Eldar soup lists out there looking to benefit from at least 2 of the 3 traits and warlord traits.


Maybe. But the only way to effectively play my existing Dark Eldar is to "soup" them. The other options are: leave two thirds of my army at home or get absolutely no faction benefit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 20:01:59


   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





That's hopefully where the "If you have 3 patrols gain 4 CP" helps.




 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Earth127 wrote:
That's hopefully where the "If you have 3 patrols gain 4 CP" helps.


Yeah. I think it's a great solution. Just responding to the negative "Dark Eldar Soup" comments.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Not sure where the Dark Eldar stuff started and the Necron ended, so I read the past few pages.

With all 3 faction previews out and not much mention on the HQs, is it a safe bet that Dark Eldar will continue with the Haemonculi tax and ignore Archons and Succubus still?

I was really hoping for a winged archon or succubus on bike etc. Any confirmation of what Drazhar does? I saw some mention that it was rumored he could attack twice now but didn't see anything else?
   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





They claim to have massively buffed Succubi and wyches in general.




 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Earth127 wrote:
They claim to have massively buffed Succubi and wyches in general.


Yeah but given the state of succubi and wyches that is a pretty low bar to hurdle but I can hope I guess. I would put money on Succubi getting a mechanic to inflict mortal wounds maybe the same with wyches. Could be worth looking at AoS Wych elves as a guide.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 20:53:11


Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in gb
Twisting Tzeentch Horror






SeanDrake wrote:
 Earth127 wrote:
They claim to have massively buffed Succubi and wyches in general.


Yeah but given the state of succubi and wyches that is a pretty low bar to hurdle but I can hope I guess. I would put money on Succubi getting a mechanic to inflict mortal wounds maybe the same with wyches. Could be worth looking at AoS Wych elves as a guide.


Pretty sure an extra attack, as well as an invuln, as well as access to the best legion traits and detachment CP in the game, AS WELL AS A POINT REDUCTION for the wyches is a pretty massive buff. That's not a trash tier unit anymore for sure.

 insaniak wrote:

You can choose to focus on the parts of a hobby that make you unhappy, or you can choose to focus on the parts that you enjoy.
 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 Earth127 wrote:
They claim to have massively buffed Succubi and wyches in general.


Yeah but given the state of succubi and wyches that is a pretty low bar to hurdle but I can hope I guess. I would put money on Succubi getting a mechanic to inflict mortal wounds maybe the same with wyches. Could be worth looking at AoS Wych elves as a guide.


Pretty sure an extra attack, as well as an invuln, as well as access to the best legion traits and detachment CP in the game, AS WELL AS A POINT REDUCTION for the wyches is a pretty massive buff. That's not a trash tier unit anymore for sure.

Well, it's +1A, 6++ against shooting and a 1pt reduction in cost. It's not amazing by itself, but it certainly helps and the consensus eslwhere seems to be that they'll make for a very good unit for shifitng chaff. The Cult Obsessions and the Combat Drugs also go someway to vastly improving their versatility as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:
What is with this place and arbitrary condescension?

I simply said that dividing traits into three sub groups left a lot of units out. Had it been done as traits for Dark Eldar as a whole, then both scourges and incubi would fit. As is, they are left out specifically because they aren't aligned to kabals, cults or covens which are the three divisions given traits.

And since I don't feel like another argument tonight I'll pre-clarify that I'm not suggesting they should have done it differently, just noting that it means an unusually large chunk of the codex is left out.

To be fair, it's looking like Trueborn have been removed from the codex so that'll leave Scourges as the army's defacto speacial/heavy weapons team. Since Blasters have been improved and the unit itself will see a points reduction I think their place in the army is assured despite the lack of the Kabal, Cult or Coven Obsessions.

Mandrakes are also one of our best units in the index thanks to natural Deep Strike, -1 to hit and in larger squads can be a reliable source of mortal wounds. They've hinted on facebook that they've received a points reduction and a boost to AP (no clue whether this is for shooting or combat though) which would certainly go a long way to keeping their place in the army.

Incubi are a worry, they offer one of our best sources of high AP close combat but it can already be difficult to make them work. They'll need a points reduction from their current 18, but they'll need some synergy with our HQ's to be worth it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 21:18:58


 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator




New York, USA




Spoiler:




This art direction is quite interesting. They seem to be moving a bit further away from "dark elf" in space toward deranged vampiric/demonic elf.

In a way this reflects the fluff better, but it's interesting that that art is not hyper-sexualized and exaggerated sleek she elves but instead quite gritty and true-to-form sleek bodies. In comparison to new Daughters of khaine art who still have their elaborate makeup and all.



This is from 7th ed codex for comparison:

Spoiler:
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






I don't know... looks a bit like early sci fi Star Trek like. XD
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I agree with the concern about the issues with scourges and Incubi.

Not that they should receive traits, but because including them breaks the patrol detachment involved and they lose benefits as a result.

I guess you need to always take an extra patrol for your outsiders guys. Which is just akward.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Emeraldw wrote:
I agree with the concern about the issues with scourges and Incubi.

Not that they should receive traits, but because including them breaks the patrol detachment involved and they lose benefits as a result.

I guess you need to always take an extra patrol for your outsiders guys. Which is just akward.

Is this confirmed? Lots of factions have units that don't benefit from traits but which don't prevent other units from getting traits.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





But they all share the same tag. Like dreads are still Space Marines.

Kabals and Cults are rather specific to a sub-set of dark eldar.

Take for example deamons in CSM codex (before they got their own). They are in the codex, but without the heretic astartes tag, they break the detachment.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Emeraldw wrote:
I agree with the concern about the issues with scourges and Incubi.

Not that they should receive traits, but because including them breaks the patrol detachment involved and they lose benefits as a result.

I guess you need to always take an extra patrol for your outsiders guys. Which is just akward.

You couldn't take them in a Patrol for your argument anyways. You would take Vanguard or Outrider Detachments, either of which would give you 1 Command Point each.

I'm about 99% sure at this juncture that it was mentioned they do not count against you for the purposes of your Detachment, it just has to be purely Kabal, Cult, or Covens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/30 02:38:54


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Kanluwen wrote:
Emeraldw wrote:
I agree with the concern about the issues with scourges and Incubi.

Not that they should receive traits, but because including them breaks the patrol detachment involved and they lose benefits as a result.

I guess you need to always take an extra patrol for your outsiders guys. Which is just akward.

You couldn't take them in a Patrol for your argument anyways. You would take Vanguard or Outrider Detachments, either of which would give you 3 Command Points each.

I'm about 99% sure at this juncture that it was mentioned they do not count against you for the purposes of your Detachment, it just has to be purely Kabal, Cult, or Covens.


I'm not sure why I have to take Outriders or Vanguards for Scourges and Incubi. I could just take a throw away HQ and wracks to make a patrol. I don't always want 3 of something.

As I said, it isn't impossible, it is just really awkward for what has always been one army.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Emeraldw wrote:
But they all share the same tag. Like dreads are still Space Marines.

Kabals and Cults are rather specific to a sub-set of dark eldar.

Take for example deamons in CSM codex (before they got their own). They are in the codex, but without the heretic astartes tag, they break the detachment.


Guard features a rule called "regimental advisors" which gives you specific permission to include several units without breaking <faction> benefits. Same with Eldar and Pheonix Warriors.

There is no reason to believe Deldar will work any differently.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




the_scotsman wrote:
Emeraldw wrote:
But they all share the same tag. Like dreads are still Space Marines.

Kabals and Cults are rather specific to a sub-set of dark eldar.

Take for example deamons in CSM codex (before they got their own). They are in the codex, but without the heretic astartes tag, they break the detachment.


Guard features a rule called "regimental advisors" which gives you specific permission to include several units without breaking <faction> benefits. Same with Eldar and Pheonix Warriors.

There is no reason to believe Deldar will work any differently.


Fallen also work like this! Daemons break the Detachment as they are ment to be summoned. So my guess is it will be save for Dark Eldar to include their "unaligned" units into any list.
   
Made in gb
Stubborn White Lion





UK

 Kanluwen wrote:
Emeraldw wrote:
I agree with the concern about the issues with scourges and Incubi.

Not that they should receive traits, but because including them breaks the patrol detachment involved and they lose benefits as a result.

I guess you need to always take an extra patrol for your outsiders guys. Which is just akward.

You couldn't take them in a Patrol for your argument anyways. You would take Vanguard or Outrider Detachments, either of which would give you 3 Command Points each.

I'm about 99% sure at this juncture that it was mentioned they do not count against you for the purposes of your Detachment, it just has to be purely Kabal, Cult, or Covens.


Vanguard and outrider only give you 1CP each.
I imagine that they will have a rule for "free agents" that means they don't effect the trait of their parent detachment as they're hired bodyguards etc.





 
   
 
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