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Not surprised with this choice.
Any one place would truly be no better than any other.

Been trying to explain to GW-UK (Studio yes but especially Office staff) for over 20 years how large the USA is, let alone North America & what a completely different market it is and have failed in every attempt.

Seriously, GW collectively has not a clue.
GW HQ is in a country (UK) that is:
1) geographically smaller than the State of Nevada;
2) that has better and less expensive public transportation for the whole country than any specific locale anywhere in North America, let alone any whole nation here;
3) has only 20% of the population of the US, but with a population density three times that of the US;
4) has only 23% of the possible entertainment alternatives if you include all choices and availabilities at all income levels than here in the US.
I am sure there are other sharp contrasts that affect sales of games and toy soldiers, let alone wargaming as a hobby, but these are the ones I have been trying to get them to understand for over two decades.
AND I HAVE FAILED EPICLY!!!
Oh well.

Congratulations to the Texans!
You will have 80+% of the fun at this cafe while it lasts.
That is simply from the sheer expense that most Americans will have to put out just to get to this location, let alone do and/or buy anything while present.

On a side note, any bets on how long this Warhammer Cafe idea will last in the US?
I say less than ten years at best; most likely less than five.
Even if you have five on these W-Cafes (TX, CA, IL, NY, FL), the sheer cost it will take for most folks to get to these sites will make the trip prohibitive thereby the W-cafe experiment will die.

W-Cafe is a nice concept, but it just is not workable within such a large land mass with such a low population density that has such expensive AND so little public transportation.

Note that it's described as first Warhammer Café.

Likely a proof of concept. If it can stand on it's own two feet, I'd expect others to start popping up in the US.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
...

... . If it can stand on it's own two feet, ... .

That is exactly my point!

Take a look at the job listing to manage the place:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/2018/02/07/warhammer-cafe-general-manager-grapevine-tx/
They are only planning on it being 4,000 sq ft!!!
Do you realize how small of a venue that is?!?
What is the place actually going to be able to have in that little room that will make a gamer want to spend all that money to get there in the first place?!?

I'm not good at those sorts of facts and figures Or how it measures up to Warhammer World's footprint.

Yeah that's about 400 m2, so say 20x20 meters... not very big!

 Mymearan wrote:
Yeah that's about 400 m2, so say 20x20 meters... not very big!

Sorry, more like 1150m2.
I may be off by a bit also, but 400 is definitely too little.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dallas eh?

Why, I could pop across, visit the Cafe, shoot JR, all in time to wake up in the shower and find the whole adventure was a dream!

Yikes.

That's one hell of a "How do?" dated reference there...

Anyway, this is almost certainly a 'Proof of Concept", and I hope that they place it in the right area so that if it tanks, they didn't unintentionally skew the data.

4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.

I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.

I hope that it gets bigger and that actual warhammer world style events get held there. I am not going to be making the travel to Dallas for a warhammer game but if it gets big enough maybe in 20-30 years when I'm retired and hobbling around on a cane they'll put one out closer to me

 DouglasJB wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Yeah that's about 400 m2, so say 20x20 meters... not very big!

Sorry, more like 1150m2.
I may be off by a bit also, but 400 is definitely too little.

If you are going to take your time to correct someone online you should make sure that you are actually correct 4000 square feet is roughly 400 square meter (371 to be exact).

 Alpharius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dallas eh?

Why, I could pop across, visit the Cafe, shoot JR, all in time to wake up in the shower and find the whole adventure was a dream!

Yikes.

That's one hell of a "How do?" dated reference there...

Anyway, this is almost certainly a 'Proof of Concept", and I hope that they place it in the right area so that if it tanks, they didn't unintentionally skew the data.

Or indeed skewed the other way with an overly cherry picked spot!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Note that it's described as first Warhammer Café.

Likely a proof of concept. If it can stand on it's own two feet, I'd expect others to start popping up in the US.

Yep. Not sure how many they would do, but there's plenty of players in the Chicago area, Bay Area (CA), and East Coast. I wouldn't expect one in every state, but those four could possibly do well.

I still am not 100% sure what this place will be, though. A Game store that sells coffee? Some Sandwhiches? Perhaps an over-simplification, but that isn't exactly rocket surgery. Just need to tack a food licence onto your game store and meet health standards.

Flights don't seem to bad, actually. I checked flights from NY airports (Westchester and Laguardia), and in April at least, on a weekend, they're $190-230 for a round trip ticket. Honestly, that's not too shabby!

Honestly, if this is successful, I hope they pop one up in NYC next. Then again, the cost to do so would probably be HUGE. They'd honestly be better off even moving their NYC store (just due to cost, mind you) into like the Westchester area; still close and accessible, but not as costly. Then again, less transportation to it (except good old fashioned cars!), so what do I know.

Looks like GW used the same logic I did. A 6-hr drive to a major event would be more than worth it! For those that a curious, Dallas-Fort Worth is the fourth largest metropolitan area in the US. Texas is the second largest state by population (as well as land area if that matters). Dallas-Fort Worth also has one of the largest wargaming communities in the country. DFW International Airport is the fourth busiest airport in the US (though if Southwest is available in your area, I'd use them. Dallas-Love Field is their hub, and fights are usually very affordable). Seems like a good spot to me.

 Hulksmash wrote:
4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.

I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.

Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.

Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.

I used to live near Grapevine. Great place. The rent for them will be absurdly high.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Mep, if I have to get on a plane I may as well go to Nottingham. They have beer at least.

But Kid_Kyoto! Denton, Texas is only a 30 minute drive from Grapevine, Texas!

You can fly to Dallas, grab coffee and donuts at this new Warhammer Cafe, and then continue your drive to REAPER MINIATURES!!!

 DouglasJB wrote:

Congratulations to the Texans!

You mean congratulations to people in the DFW area. You seem to be having an issue with underestimating the size of Texas as well. That's a 4 hour drive from Houston.

Damn. it'd be cheaper to fly to london than to fly to Grapevine, Texas. It's not even close to any of the major W40k scenes outside of maybe the Dallas one.

skarsol wrote:

 DouglasJB wrote:

Congratulations to the Texans!

You mean congratulations to people in the DFW area. You seem to be having an issue with underestimating the size of Texas as well. That's a 4 hour drive from Houston.

I did a 2 hour ride to go to a regional 1 day- 3 game tournament without leaving Galicia. 4 hours is nothing! (If the event is big enough of course)

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Damn. it'd be cheaper to fly to london than to fly to Grapevine, Texas. It's not even close to any of the major W40k scenes outside of maybe the Dallas one.

From where? Honest question because I've never flown to DFW for more than $300 and I've never made it to europe for less than $700.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.

I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.

Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.

Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.

Yeah, I think the size strongly points to what this is intended to be -- a really nice Battle Bunker store with some food and drink, and not a U.S.-based Warhammer World with a gaming hall and Bugman's. Which is probably why the thing is called a cafe and not WW-US, lol.

I'm sure GW would *love* to have people flying in from all over the country to see it, but that's not going to happen, and this still looks to me like a test of a concept that could be applied in other major metro areas. Larger metro destination stores/hubs are actually what some of us in the U.S. have been calling for ever since they went to the one-person concept. If it works out, I think it's a really good thing and better approach for the U.S. market.

 gorgon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.

I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.

Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.

Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.

Yeah, I think the size strongly points to what this is intended to be -- a really nice Battle Bunker store with some food and drink, and not a U.S.-based Warhammer World with a gaming hall and Bugman's. Which is probably why the thing is called a cafe and not WW-US, lol.

I'm sure GW would *love* to have people flying in from all over the country to see it, but that's not going to happen, and this still looks to me like a test of a concept that could be applied in other major metro areas. Larger metro destination stores/hubs are actually what some of us in the U.S. have been calling for ever since they went to the one-person concept. If it works out, I think it's a really good thing and better approach for the U.S. market.

Exactly!

I was hoping for a Warhammer World US, but it looks like it will be a slightly bigger GWUS store that sells...snacks and drinks? Maybe?

I don't think many people are going to travel any significant distance for that.

I mean, FFG has a store that is essentially a full cafe/store/gaming area here in MN. And without the back game room (a huge event area) area it's probably about 8000sf. Considering you could halve the "store area" pretty easy if it's just GW and cut a bit of the gaming space (which is still more sf currently than the old battle bunkers) and you can fit quite a bit in 4k sf.

A lot depends on how they handle the cafe. FFG is a full mini diner essentially with a full menu and beer options. So if FFG can do it I think GW could probably manage.

Either way I'll drop buy the next time I'm in Dallas seeing family to check it out once it's open.

You guys are all crazy. 4000 square feet is bloody massive. You could fit my house into it 7 times! If the venue has two floors you could comfortably fit in 40 or so gaming tables. Plenty of space for medium sized events.
As has been said, they are not trying to make warhammer world 2 or trying to compete with the Lvo and adepticon venues. This is just a cafe with a smallish event space.
In fact if you look at last year gw attended Lvo, (West coastish), Adepticon (north) and Nova (east).
If they have a small open day in the south (100 or so tickets), they will give the opportunity for people from most of America a chance to attend gw seminars and meet the team.

 Galas wrote:
is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less. (But at the same time USA is bigger than Europe so yeah, probably I'm lookin at that map with the wrong scale-glasses )

Lol, probably. Texas is bigger than every European country outside of the former USSR.



Unless your version of a casual small road trip entails at a minimum driving from Madrid to Paris and back, it's pretty much out of reach for anyone outside of the state without making a full weekend vacation out of it. That said.. I suspect it'll get a steady trickle of destination traffic especially if there is a local convention going on. BOLScon iirc is in Texas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Flights don't seem to bad, actually. I checked flights from NY airports (Westchester and Laguardia), and in April at least, on a weekend, they're $190-230 for a round trip ticket. Honestly, that's not too shabby!

For a cup of coffee?

Trust me, there's plenty to do in Dallas. This could easily be one stop in a long weekend.

 EnTyme wrote:
Trust me, there's plenty to do in Dallas. This could easily be one stop in a long weekend.

Yep. I would not go to Dallas just to visit the cafe, no.

However, there are plenty of other reasons to go to Dallas that might warrant a side trip to the Cafe.

Dallas Cowboy's new stadium. I would like to see a game there.

A couple of conventions like ReaperCon. List: https://www.guidelive.com/geek/2015/04/09/get-geek-upcoming-d-fw-conventions

40k tournaments

And, of course, all the attractions you'd expect in a huge city like museums, shopping, restaurants, and so on.

For baseball fans, the Texas Rangers also just broke ground on a new stadium. And there's FC Dallas for those who don't know what real football is . Also the Stars for our Canadian visitors, and the Mavericks for the self-loathing. Lots of sports destinations for those who may want to combine their wargaming trip with some feats of athleticism.

Chikout wrote:
It seems like a sensible choice. If they put it in La or new York it would be a considerable journey for those on the other coast, and as someone who is used to 12 hour flights, 3 or 4 hours does seem like a short hop. Grapevine is probably a pretty cheap place to go too. If this is successful they can add another on each coast and a fourth in Chicago. That would have America pretty well covered.
Now they just need to open a cafe in Japan.

No, they really wouldn't have America pretty well covered. Drop a cafe in the Baltimore/DC area and it's too far away for the Boston area or the Georgia/Florida area. I wouldn't think that a cafe in LA or in San Francisco would be considered to cover Portland or Seattle. I wouldn't consider Memphis covered by Dallas. If it requires a plane flight or over 8 hours driving it's not covering it. If the first cafe works I'd expect more of an expansion than just 4 shops total.