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Ratlings.....................tank.................................................baneblade ........................... terrain. .........................chimera




Tank................................................tank



Manticore.................................................———————————————manticore



Overly simplistic and subject to change but you get the picture.


Okay that did not translate properly but you can still get the point

gendoikari87 wrote:
Ratlings.....................tank.................................................baneblade ........................... terrain. .........................chimera




Tank................................................tank



Manticore.................................................———————————————manticore



Overly simplistic and subject to change but you get the picture.


Okay that did not translate properly but you can still get the point

Well, for starters the Ratlings are minimum 9" back from the edge of your deployment zone because the Nurglings/Scouts force them to deploy 18" from them so they aren't doing anything for your screen.

Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Ratlings.....................tank.................................................baneblade ........................... terrain. .........................chimera




Tank................................................tank



Manticore.................................................———————————————manticore



Overly simplistic and subject to change but you get the picture.


Okay that did not translate properly but you can still get the point

Come on man - all it takes is one unit that can deepstrike and charge (we've discussed the viable options here) and then using a fight again stratagem to pull half your army into combat. The fact that your opponents aren't there skillwise is on them.

Don't alpha legion and RG get to deploy after first turn is determined but before the turn begins?

That is correct.

Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

I tried to be devil's advocate here, and found myself utterly unable.

I still genuinely have no idea how he thinks he is doing this.

RogueApiary wrote:
Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

The guy even got actual Russ', Chimera's, and Cultists to make his point with.
Dissapointed there was no Baneblade, too.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

The guy even got actual Russ', Chimera's, and Cultists to make his point with.
Dissapointed there was no Baneblade, too.

I could do it with all Baneblades, and they're even in my car... and while I work for a defense contractor on the Wargaming team, I'm fairly certain playing with Baneblades at work might not qualify for hours.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

The guy even got actual Russ', Chimera's, and Cultists to make his point with.
Dissapointed there was no Baneblade, too.

I could do it with all Baneblades, and they're even in my car... and while I work for a defense contractor on the Wargaming team, I'm fairly certain playing with Baneblades at work might not qualify for hours.

But posting on Dakka does...?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I could do it with all Baneblades, and they're even in my car... and while I work for a defense contractor on the Wargaming team, I'm fairly certain playing with Baneblades at work might not qualify for hours.

Oh? I didn't realize you owned baneblades....

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

The guy even got actual Russ', Chimera's, and Cultists to make his point with.
Dissapointed there was no Baneblade, too.

Closest thing I have that's baneblade sized is a land raider unfortunately.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

Only one of the deployment zones limit you to 12", and you only have a 1/6 chance to play it.

So saying 12" is the norm, in 8th edition, just isn't true.

This also assumes you have 0 alpha-deploy screens. You are advocating how good SM scouts are all the time. Take some, you're Imperium.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Dawn of War deployment.

This is why you need screens https://imgur.com/gallery/Dbb92

The guy even got actual Russ', Chimera's, and Cultists to make his point with.
Dissapointed there was no Baneblade, too.

I could do it with all Baneblades, and they're even in my car... and while I work for a defense contractor on the Wargaming team, I'm fairly certain playing with Baneblades at work might not qualify for hours.

But posting on Dakka does...?

You got me

I shut up now.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

Only one of the deployment zones limit you to 12", and you only have a 1/6 chance to play it.

So saying 12" is the norm, in 8th edition, just isn't true.

This also assumes you have 0 alpha-deploy screens. You are advocating how good SM scouts are all the time. Take some, you're Imperium.

Read the past couple of pages. We're calling out a specific list that has no screening but is somehow 12-0 at his shop.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

Only one of the deployment zones limit you to 12", and you only have a 1/6 chance to play it.

So saying 12" is the norm, in 8th edition, just isn't true.

This also assumes you have 0 alpha-deploy screens. You are advocating how good SM scouts are all the time. Take some, you're Imperium.

Read the past couple of pages. We're calling out a specific list that has no screening but is somehow 12-0 at his shop.

Well if everyone plays shooty gunlines, screens are kind of dumb.

Right but specifically said one of his regular opponents is Alpha Legion with infiltrators.

gendoikari87 wrote:
your assumption here is everything is lined up next to each other, that’s slowed, your tanks should be something like 10” away from each other

With 40 guys 10" gap is NOTHING. You realize you can cover that one with half a dozen guy? Cultists aren't moving b2b after all. Hell even if they were 40 guys would cover 10" EASILY. 40" guys covers 20" gap without issue.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Right but specifically said one of his regular opponents is Alpha Legion with infiltrators.

What does he run? Hellhounds with flames?

 Marmatag wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

Only one of the deployment zones limit you to 12", and you only have a 1/6 chance to play it.

So saying 12" is the norm, in 8th edition, just isn't true.

This also assumes you have 0 alpha-deploy screens. You are advocating how good SM scouts are all the time. Take some, you're Imperium.

Read the past couple of pages. We're calling out a specific list that has no screening but is somehow 12-0 at his shop.

Well if everyone plays shooty gunlines, screens are kind of dumb.

Except even gunlines tends to have deep striking stuff like deep striking plasma etc.

Plus anyway with all the tyranids, blood angels etc that can reliably pull of T1 charges all are NOT playing shooty gunlines.

tneva82 wrote:

Plus anyway with all the tyranids, blood angels etc that can reliably pull of T1 charges all are NOT playing shooty gunlines.

Tell me more about *reliable* Tyranid turn 1 charges that don't involve some hijinks with the Swarmlord.

Also aren't we talking about this clownshoes meta specifically, where screening units are viewed as pointless?

 Marmatag wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also for starters, in a normal 12" deployment zone (which I would say has a fairly average area) you won't be able to layer like that because Leman Russes are too long.

A line with the 9" long / 7" wide Baneblade in it with a line of Leman Russes behind hit, and then Manticores behind them will be 19" deep, if they're bumper to bumper. You have to go wide, not deep, with tanks the size of a Baneblade. And having no depth means you get charged.

Only one of the deployment zones limit you to 12", and you only have a 1/6 chance to play it.

So saying 12" is the norm, in 8th edition, just isn't true.

This also assumes you have 0 alpha-deploy screens. You are advocating how good SM scouts are all the time. Take some, you're Imperium.

Read the past couple of pages. We're calling out a specific list that has no screening but is somehow 12-0 at his shop.

Well if everyone plays shooty gunlines, screens are kind of dumb.

Also, the same exact thing works on Frontline assault which has an even smaller effective deployment zone to work with because of the 6" deep flanks. It stands a good chance of working on Spearhead assault, search and destroy, and vanguard depending on terrain.

Even assuming a single LOS blocking ruin in the center, the cultists can chill there, move out, get warp timed and pull in a large number of spread out tanks even on some of the deeper map types.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Right but specifically said one of his regular opponents is Alpha Legion with infiltrators.

What does he run? Hellhounds with flames?

You could just back up a couple pages and see the trainwreck of a list he's running. But basically a chimera, 10 crusaders, one unit of Ratlings, yarrick, Pask, a baneblade, 2 Manticores, and I think four normal Leman Russes including one punisher.

I believe that list would crush other casual level lists similar to it in power. In a truly casual game, "casual Guard" > "casual anyone else" by an incredible margin.

 Marmatag wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Plus anyway with all the tyranids, blood angels etc that can reliably pull of T1 charges all are NOT playing shooty gunlines.

Tell me more about *reliable* Tyranid turn 1 charges that don't involve some hijinks with the Swarmlord.

Also aren't we talking about this clownshoes meta specifically, where screening units are viewed as pointless?

As I mentioned earlier, kraken swarmlord + 30 Gargoyles would have a great time against his list. Drop down, fly 12" forward +3D6 pick the highest if you feel like risking the psychic check on onslaught, then assaulting and surrounding his Frontline chimera. Followed by falling back 12" forward the following turn and wrapping the stuff that matters.

 Marmatag wrote:
I believe that list would crush other casual level lists similar to it in power. In a truly casual game, "casual Guard" > "casual anyone else" by an incredible margin.

I wonder who here would actually know what that even looked like. The "casual vs casual" part, I mean.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Plus anyway with all the tyranids, blood angels etc that can reliably pull of T1 charges all are NOT playing shooty gunlines.

Tell me more about *reliable* Tyranid turn 1 charges that don't involve some hijinks with the Swarmlord.

Also aren't we talking about this clownshoes meta specifically, where screening units are viewed as pointless?

As I mentioned earlier, kraken swarmlord + 30 Gargoyles would have a great time against his list. Drop down, fly 12" forward +3D6 pick the highest if you feel like risking the psychic check on onslaught, then assaulting and surrounding his Frontline chimera. Followed by falling back 12" forward the following turn and wrapping the stuff that matters.

Well i play Tyranids and I would not bother doing this, at all. Swarmlord + chaff doesn't work out as beautifully as you might think. His 4++ does not go nearly far enough, unless your dice are fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I believe that list would crush other casual level lists similar to it in power. In a truly casual game, "casual Guard" > "casual anyone else" by an incredible margin.

I wonder who here would actually know what that even looked like. The "casual vs casual" part, I mean.

I know quite a few people who are casual only gamers. Not because they hate tournaments, or hate losing, they just don't know the game super well, and don't have the confidence to play a 2000 point game, or the ego to handle losing badly.

If you just bring a mish-mash of your models and put them on the table, drawing from all these codexes, a mishmash guard list will be the strongest.

I mean it shows too. This guy above thought that the Swarmlord + Gargoyles is the solution to a guard list full of tanks. He's created a strategy that will be wounding these tanks on 6s once the Swarmlord dies. Like piling into something is enough to somehow win the fight.

 Marmatag wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Plus anyway with all the tyranids, blood angels etc that can reliably pull of T1 charges all are NOT playing shooty gunlines.

Tell me more about *reliable* Tyranid turn 1 charges that don't involve some hijinks with the Swarmlord.

Also aren't we talking about this clownshoes meta specifically, where screening units are viewed as pointless?

As I mentioned earlier, kraken swarmlord + 30 Gargoyles would have a great time against his list. Drop down, fly 12" forward +3D6 pick the highest if you feel like risking the psychic check on onslaught, then assaulting and surrounding his Frontline chimera. Followed by falling back 12" forward the following turn and wrapping the stuff that matters.

Well i play Tyranids and I would not bother doing this, at all. Swarmlord + chaff doesn't work out as beautifully as you might think. His 4++ does not go nearly far enough, unless your dice are fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I believe that list would crush other casual level lists similar to it in power. In a truly casual game, "casual Guard" > "casual anyone else" by an incredible margin.

I wonder who here would actually know what that even looked like. The "casual vs casual" part, I mean.

I know quite a few people who are casual only gamers. Not because they hate tournaments, or hate losing, they just don't know the game super well, and don't have the confidence to play a 2000 point game, or the ego to handle losing badly.

If you just bring a mish-mash of your models and put them on the table, drawing from all these codexes, a mishmash guard list will be the strongest.

I mean it shows too. This guy above thought that the Swarmlord + Gargoyles is the solution to a guard list full of tanks. He's created a strategy that will be wounding these tanks on 6s once the Swarmlord dies. Like piling into something is enough to somehow win the fight.

Yeah, given his only unit that can shoot will be the baneblade at that point. It's enough to give you at least two turns to rack up objectives with the rest of your army. You don't NEED to kill everything to win. Even the SL might live to see another turn with only a stock baneblade shooting him. And that's if the baneblade even has LOS to him.

I've used the SL/Gargoyles combo against two gunline armies so far and it shut them down both times. Opponents admittedly had poor screens, but the opposing list in question has NO SCREEN.

gendoikari87 wrote:
What you guys forget.... is you need a 9 to get into melee when deepstriking. Turn 1 charges are not going to be common and if you have half a brain you can deploy so that those one or two deep strikers can only hit one unit. You then fire and kill half their army. That’s why I quit using screens. When you have enough dakka you really do not need them that much.

Also no one here has that many cultists 30-40 tops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also add to that the strats that let you increase your overwatch... cultists are not a problem

It must be nice living in a world with no kids or death company. I've had to counter turn 1 charges for all but one of the past 8 games I've played, and I can just hold the line with about 120 guardsmen against a determined opponent.

120 will hold ba for like 20 turns or more. Because after turn 3 you've tabled the ba. BA can send ONE unit. If it were the whole list i could see your issue. But you are telling me you can't deploy to stop and kill ONE unit? How much easier could it be?

DC is frankly a joke vs well screened ig lists. The BA will never get through them in time.

There's also the fact that with enough screens, you can just ignore 1st turn charges. What the hell are you guys doing? Forgetting to shoot for an entire turn? You have the autowin button called fall back. Assault units are damned if they make the charge and damned if they fail.