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A void shield generator provides a 5+ inv sv 6" bubble, a knight also has a 5+ inv sv, and he can also provide a 5+ inv sv 6" bubble. Where is the void shield better ?

A VOSTROYAN Master of Ordnance, can be ordered to fire his artillery barrage at a unit in close combat with him - and he won't get hit at all. That's some very accurate fire control.

 p5freak wrote:
A void shield generator provides a 5+ inv sv 6" bubble, a knight also has a 5+ inv sv, and he can also provide a 5+ inv sv 6" bubble. Where is the void shield better ?

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

I feel like people are just stretching too hard about how silly the idea of ripping a chunk of a building out and having it collapse is. I mean this is a game which is an abstraction of a fictional scenario where the standard issue weapon of several factions is effectively a .75cal grenade launcher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kcalehc wrote:
A VOSTROYAN Master of Ordnance, can be ordered to fire his artillery barrage at a unit in close combat with him - and he won't get hit at all. That's some very accurate fire control.

It's the fancy hats that make them such good shots.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

A void shield generator cannot negate mortal wounds.

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

A void shield generator cannot negate mortal wounds.

You might want to go look at Titan Void Shields which specifically can be used against mortal wounds.

Khorne: I see my followers reap a great tally of skulls from your followers Tzeentch!

Tzeentch: Aha, but is that because your champions are so skilled or perhaps my sorcerer has a plan?

Khorne: Nay! Tis by the roar of their chainaxes that they... Wait, what are your men doing?! By Us Tzeentch your troops flee!

Tzeentch: Okay, that's new. I'm sure it's a feigned retreat...

Nurgle: Hor-hor-hor! Look closer my brothers, the players have editioned up!

Khorne: What is that? Let me get my glasses... 8th Edition? When did that happen?

Slaanesh: You wanna borrow my copy? I've already read it, my dudes get...

Khorne: We don't care what your stupid Noise Marines get, sod off. Don't you have a Forgefiend to degrade?

Slaanesh: Aw man!

Tzeentch: Leave the book!

Khorne: Nurgle, you read it for us. You don't mind whatever goo that is that that thing excretes.

Nurgle: It actually tastes good with a little snot... Anyways here we go. Cult troops, should be under Troops, whoops nope, elites. Pg 22, let's see here...

Tzeentch: Just skip to the USR part.

Nurgle: It's actually way different guys... Wow look at all the cool stuff my dudes get! Plague Belcher, hmmm...

Khorne: The USRs! Check the USR section!

Nurgle:. It's not there! They're just these funny sheets!

Tzeentch: Look, there at the bottom!

Nurgle: Oh my that's handy, they have the rule printed right there next to the unit! Hmmm, very good. Disgustingly Resilient? Nice. Your dudes attack twice Khorne!

Khorne: Decent!

Tzeentch: Fearless! What about Fearless?

Nurgle: I'm looking, it's not here! It's not anywhere!

Khorne: That's gak. I'm going to write a letter.

Nurgle: Music of the Apocalypse... Wow, look at this. It's really good.

Tzeentch and Khorne: Huh...

Khorne: I'm putting that in my letter too.

An Ork Nob barely a few years old with a Kustom shoota is theoretically able to kill a multi-millennium old Eldar Warlock/Farseer/Autarch in a single round of shooting, while a 10,000+ year old genetically perfected super-super-human Custodes Shield Captain literally can't hit the dude.

Reasoning: The new "Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!" rule in the Ork codex:

Assuming the Kustom shoota remains Assault 4, the Ork Nob can theoretically get 8 hits, wounds and failed saves since no matter the negative modifiers, 6s will hit. Even when the Warlock/Farseer/Autarch stacks -5 to hit (-1 for Alaitoc, -1 Conceal power, -1 Wounded by Barroth, -1 Lightning-Fast Reactions Stratagem, -1 Shiftshroud/Shimmerplume).

Meanwhile, Captain-General Trajann Valoris himself will shoot the very same Warlock/Farseer/Autarch and be literally incapable of hitting it.

When you fill the air with bullets (which I always assume every die we roll to be a grouping of shots for most weapons that aren't explicitly single fire meaning the Ork is literally filling the air with bullets) you can hit anything by pure probability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guess I should have pointed out that "quantity is a quality all it's own" which used to be the mantra of Orks back in 5th for people I knew who played them.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

A void shield generator cannot negate mortal wounds.

You might want to go look at Titan Void Shields which specifically can be used against mortal wounds.

Please read what i wrote. Did i write titan void shields, or did i write void shield generator ??

 BaconCatBug wrote:
An Ork Nob barely a few years old with a Kustom shoota is theoretically able to kill a multi-millennium old Eldar Warlock/Farseer/Autarch in a single round of shooting, while a 10,000+ year old genetically perfected super-super-human Custodes Shield Captain literally can't hit the dude.

Reasoning: The new "Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!" rule in the Ork codex:

Assuming the Kustom shoota remains Assault 4, the Ork Nob can theoretically get 8 hits, wounds and failed saves since no matter the negative modifiers, 6s will hit. Even when the Warlock/Farseer/Autarch stacks -5 to hit (-1 for Alaitoc, -1 Conceal power, -1 Wounded by Barroth, -1 Lightning-Fast Reactions Stratagem, -1 Shiftshroud/Shimmerplume).

Meanwhile, Captain-General Trajann Valoris himself will shoot the very same Warlock/Farseer/Autarch and be literally incapable of hitting it.

Oh no, there is a 0.0000001448% chance that the super-elf can't dodge all of the completely randomly fired shots of a nob while being able to predict where a trained soilder will shoot in a completely unrealistic scenario. 40k is RUINED.

And yes, that's the actual chance.

Custodes just suck at being random, deal with it.

By the contrary, it makes a lot of sense - Orks are, after all, a product of superior craftsamanship than Custodes.

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
An Ork Nob barely a few years old with a Kustom shoota is theoretically able to kill a multi-millennium old Eldar Warlock/Farseer/Autarch in a single round of shooting, while a 10,000+ year old genetically perfected super-super-human Custodes Shield Captain literally can't hit the dude.

Reasoning: The new "Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!" rule in the Ork codex:

Assuming the Kustom shoota remains Assault 4, the Ork Nob can theoretically get 8 hits, wounds and failed saves since no matter the negative modifiers, 6s will hit. Even when the Warlock/Farseer/Autarch stacks -5 to hit (-1 for Alaitoc, -1 Conceal power, -1 Wounded by Barroth, -1 Lightning-Fast Reactions Stratagem, -1 Shiftshroud/Shimmerplume).

Meanwhile, Captain-General Trajann Valoris himself will shoot the very same Warlock/Farseer/Autarch and be literally incapable of hitting it.

Oh no, there is a 0.0000001448% chance that the super-elf can't dodge all of the completely randomly fired shots of a nob while being able to predict where a trained soilder will shoot in a completely unrealistic scenario. 40k is RUINED.

And yes, that's the actual chance.

Custodes just suck at being random, deal with it.

More to the point the super-elf just shouldn't be able to stack all the -1 to hit BS to -3 or worse.

You have decimated the enemy down to a single grot and drowned them in their own blood while your losses are minor. However, because of that lone single grot hiding in the ruin with a shiny object, something his (now dead) comrades (slavers) called a "Rehlick", which he cannot even understand, YOU LOSE THE GAME!

The enemy cannot score Objective Cards and his scored Objective Cards are meaningless if you wipe all his models off the table.

"Overwatch? That's like a free shooting phase for us!" Orks in general.

Guardsmen are rational. They would disobey if the order is completely suicidal, thus we must have commissars to remind them of their duty. Fire Warriors don't need no stinking supervisor. An Ethereal wants them to die? "Here I go to die, boss," said the Fire Warrior.

A Chainsword is no more powerful than a kitchen knife.

Having 2 pistols is better than a Chainsword and a pistol.

Conscripts are cannon fodder. They feed the enemy to the big bad tanks looming behind them.

And they shall know no F%&ing fear.

Red goes faster, TO HELL!

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Rules comedy 8th edition!

Note: this thread is about the humorous disconnect between logic and some rules in the game. Most of us are well aware that some of these rules are unrealistic to facilitate playing a tabletop game, and so these are not necessarily gripes about the game itself, simply

-Space marine biology apparently differs enough between chapters that an apothecary from one chapter is of no help to another chapter.

-A lascannon or krak missile is actually a good weapon to use against a swarm of tiny things. You can apparently hit one so hard that 3-4 of the swarmlings die at once!

-A single squad that is under the threat of being charged by multiple enemies can fire several times faster than normal, which begs the question of why they don't bother attempting those extra free shots all the time?

1) It does really differes from Chapter to Chapter. Salamanders and Imperial Fists, for example.

2) Read the rules properly before doing jokes about them. Excessive damage doesn't "spill" on other models and lost.

3) Coz it is overwatch. They litteraly waving their guns like maniacs, trying to hit someting without aiming.

EricDominus wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
-A lascannon or krak missile is actually a good weapon to use against a swarm of tiny things. You can apparently hit one so hard that 3-4 of the swarmlings die at once!

2) Read the rules properly before doing jokes about them. Excessive damage doesn't "spill" on other models and lost.

Read the thread properly before being snarky - as was clarified, if required, the OP was referring to things like Nurglings and Rippers, where a swarm base is made up of multiple smaller creatures, yet one AT weapon can somehow kill enough of them to eliminate the base.

You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

A void shield generator cannot negate mortal wounds.

You might want to go look at Titan Void Shields which specifically can be used against mortal wounds.

Please read what i wrote. Did i write titan void shields, or did i write void shield generator ??

Apparently you ignored the context of what I was writing then. I was talking about why you might use a massive titan to break the walls of the Imperial Palace and how it's void shields were better than the shields on a Knight and you go of to talk about an irrelevant terrain piece so I corrected the idea by pointing out that the titans would be able to deflect things that would cause mortal wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot.

You could argue that instead of breaking due to fear the squad makes a tactical retreat dragging their wounded and dead behind them.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Void shields can also negate mortal wounds and the model under said shield has a lot more wounds to tank with if we want to get into game mechanics instead of just lore on why you'd use a titan instead.

A void shield generator cannot negate mortal wounds.

You might want to go look at Titan Void Shields which specifically can be used against mortal wounds.

Please read what i wrote. Did i write titan void shields, or did i write void shield generator ??

Apparently you ignored the context of what I was writing then. I was talking about why you might use a massive titan to break the walls of the Imperial Palace and how it's void shields were better than the shields on a Knight and you go of to talk about an irrelevant terrain piece so I corrected the idea by pointing out that the titans would be able to deflect things that would cause mortal wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot.

You could argue that instead of breaking due to fear the squad makes a tactical retreat dragging their wounded and dead behind them.

You could argue anything in defence of that rule, you'll be hard pressed to find a valid one.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

I think you forgot the comedy part. If you look at the 8th edition design interviews, the models don't commit suicide - they desert or stop fighting and find a nice hole to hide in.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You could argue anything in defence of that rule, you'll be hard pressed to find a valid one.

Point is that the reason a model may bail on the table isn't limited to fear, it could be to try and save their comrades over continuing to fight to the death, or to retreat with tactical information for a supporting force. It's a stat that could represent any number of things but is given a simple term because it needs to be standard across the game to work properly.

Also the game doesn't need 90% of the armies out their ignoring core mechanics 100% of the time (like Marines who somehow couldn't be wiped despite staying locked in combat to continue fighting could actually cause you to be overwhelmed more easily instead of breaking off to try and gain a tactical position to launch a counter attack from). It fundamentally broke the game and made a lot of rules basically pointless.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

I think you forgot the comedy part. If you look at the 8th edition design interviews, the models don't commit suicide - they desert or stop fighting and find a nice hole to hide in.

It wasn't intended for comedy, the people that came up with this did it because they don't like long games, pure and simple. you can say they desert or stop fighting, but the only rational explanation is stabbing themselves in the face. 7th they stopped fighting and found a hole to hide in. They'd have to use humour to justify such a stupid rule. Maybe they have vortex grenades attached to string with a weight at the end, they fling it towards the enemy, so when they run away they fall into the warp, in doing so deterring fleeing. Now that's a realistic justification.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

I think you forgot the comedy part. If you look at the 8th edition design interviews, the models don't commit suicide - they desert or stop fighting and find a nice hole to hide in.

It wasn't intended for comedy, the people that came up with this did it because they don't like long games, pure and simple. you can say they desert or stop fighting, but the only rational explanation is stabbing themselves in the face. 7th they stopped fighting and found a hole to hide in. They'd have to use humour to justify such a stupid rule. Maybe they have vortex grenades attached to string with a weight at the end, they fling it towards the enemy, so when they run away they fall into the warp. Now that's a realistic justification.

Holy crap. I found someone who liked 7th ed. Let's take this discussion into PM or a separate thread - we are way off the '8th edition rules comedy' topic now.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

I think you forgot the comedy part. If you look at the 8th edition design interviews, the models don't commit suicide - they desert or stop fighting and find a nice hole to hide in.

It wasn't intended for comedy, the people that came up with this did it because they don't like long games, pure and simple. you can say they desert or stop fighting, but the only rational explanation is stabbing themselves in the face. 7th they stopped fighting and found a hole to hide in. They'd have to use humour to justify such a stupid rule. Maybe they have vortex grenades attached to string with a weight at the end, they fling it towards the enemy, so when they run away they fall into the warp. Now that's a realistic justification.

Holy crap. I found someone who liked 7th ed. Let's take this discussion into PM or a separate thread - we are way off the '8th edition rules comedy' topic now.

I didn't say anything of the kind, I merely stated a fact. I prefer 8th, even though it has serious problems.

While being the only niche for Rough Riders right now, I find it rather funny that a Knight can walk over Infantry models, but not over a dude on a horse (especially since a horse tends to be smart enough to not want to get stepped on and would naturally get out of the way).

bibotot wrote:

A Chainsword is no more powerful than a kitchen knife.

A Chainsword grants an extra attack in close combat. A generic ccw, like a kitchen knife, doesn't.

 Asmodai wrote:

bibotot wrote:

A Chainsword is no more powerful than a kitchen knife.

A Chainsword grants an extra attack in close combat. A generic ccw, like a kitchen knife, doesn't.

A combat knife gives an extra attack, and if you're from Catachan, that IS your kitchen knife.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism.

The game would be more interesting with moral(s) playing a part. How does an Eldar squad that believes all killing is wrong cope on the battlefield, for example? Or Slaaneshi daemons facing a unit of Guardsmen who've decided on abstinence.

As it is, I suspect what you have an issue with is the morale rules.

 Asmodai wrote:

bibotot wrote:

A Chainsword is no more powerful than a kitchen knife.

A Chainsword grants an extra attack in close combat. A generic ccw, like a kitchen knife, doesn't.

I think bibotot is comparing a Chainsword to the Scout Combat Knife, as they have the same rules. Having said that, I'd compare the Combat Knife to a machete more than a kitchen knife.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism. There is no point to it.

8th has been the most ill thought out and ridiculous edition so far. Love lots of things from it, but GW need to change a lot. 2nd was ridiculous in its complexity but it had the best of intentions, this edition is just DERPETY DERP DERP.

Losing models is more or less the point of the game, and a model removed is simply combat ineffective, are you going to throw hundreds of years of training away because brother bother is stuck in his armor because the power cell blew out or are you going to leave someone to guard him while the rest advance?

That said, I'm not too fussed about going back to the old 'run away!' or 'die horribly!' results of failing morale tests, make close combat useful again when a squad breaks and you just destroy the thing. Suddenly conscripts not quite such the problem for anyone with enough chainswords to break them.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
You lose a single squad member and 100's of years of training and discipline are forgotten and you stab yourself in the face because of terror you aren't suppose to experience. moral is the single most stupid thing in this edition. I mean regardless of what faction and level of fear, losing models to moral is incredibly not fun (the game was made to be fun), it does nothing for game dynamics, it has no basis in realism.

The game would be more interesting with moral(s) playing a part. How does an Eldar squad that believes all killing is wrong cope on the battlefield, for example? Or Slaaneshi daemons facing a unit of Guardsmen who've decided on abstinence.

As it is, I suspect what you have an issue with is the morale rules.

 Asmodai wrote:

bibotot wrote:

A Chainsword is no more powerful than a kitchen knife.

A Chainsword grants an extra attack in close combat. A generic ccw, like a kitchen knife, doesn't.

I think bibotot is comparing a Chainsword to the Scout Combat Knife, as they have the same rules. Having said that, I'd compare the Combat Knife to a machete more than a kitchen knife.

Its obviously a spelling mistake, don't be obtuse.

 Kcalehc wrote:
A VOSTROYAN Master of Ordnance, can be ordered to fire his artillery barrage at a unit in close combat with him - and he won't get hit at all. That's some very accurate fire control.

He's pointing it at their chin and hitting his targets on the way up like a boss