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 Galas wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Actually most 2W infantry is fine, it's just termi that suffer. Personally, i would change the Crux Terminator to reduce incoming AP by 1 instead of giving a useless 5++ to a 2+ model.

Thats... an excellent idea TBH.

or you know, Marines get 2+ Terminators get 1+ armor...... solves both problems

In Age of Sigmar nearly all Seraphon (Lizardmen) have the rule to ignore the rend (AP) of weapons unless is -2 Rend or better. They could give the same rule to Terminator armour. Or the reducing ap 1 point with a minimun of 0. That works too.

Thats a good idea.

@Spoletta: Giving Marines a 2+ against basic shooting though isn't really a great idea... I mean, you could lower Terminators to a 1+, but I wouldn't touch basic marines.

Or you could you know fix the problem of plasma being OP as hell instead of tinkering with the symptoms.
Are Terminators are over cost, yes
Would allowing them to ignore -1ap weapons help, not realy its mostly -3ap to take them to a 5+save weapons they die to especially when its 2D per shot. Even worse when that weapon is wounding on 2+ (death guard and custodes at t5 are insanely more durable than marines, t4 helps agains S6 S7 weapons only.(i know technically it also helps S3 S4 but who is shooting terminators with s3/4 shooting)

Do terminators do enough damage? Shooting terminators definataly do not their points, assualt terminators with the right target can but its a real edge case. They either need more damage output or they need to be given a skill buff shooting terminators being BS2+ and assualts at WS2+ would realy make them a lot better.

I'd like to be able to give my chaos terminators dual close combat weapons.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Galas wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Actually most 2W infantry is fine, it's just termi that suffer. Personally, i would change the Crux Terminator to reduce incoming AP by 1 instead of giving a useless 5++ to a 2+ model.

Thats... an excellent idea TBH.

or you know, Marines get 2+ Terminators get 1+ armor...... solves both problems

In Age of Sigmar nearly all Seraphon (Lizardmen) have the rule to ignore the rend (AP) of weapons unless is -2 Rend or better. They could give the same rule to Terminator armour. Or the reducing ap 1 point with a minimun of 0. That works too.

How do you do this without making Custodes even more OP?

Well, Custodes Terminators wear special Allarus cathapractii armour that already has a 5++ instead of a 4++ base, so they can not have that special rule. Or just make them more expensive.

 Marmatag wrote:

How do you do this without making Custodes even more OP?

I'd suggested something like this before and said it should be tied to having an all Marine Detachment. Call it "Armour of Contempt" or something fluffy-ish like that and have it so that anything with the "Terminator" keyword got to roll to potentially ignore wounds from anything that didn't have an AP of at least -1.

I personally think a good fix might be to make normal Terminator armor reduce wounds taken by 1 to a minimum of 1.

This way, 1D guns are still just as good as now, 3D kills them outright, but 2D takes 2 shots to kill them.

I can't really think of any downsides. You'd probably want to not give this ability to paladins and custodes, which feels weird, but the difference (termies having my rule vs having 3W--which is better vs 1D guns--on custodes and paladins) could just be said to be sightly different kinds of armor.

Why? Paladins are overcosted garbage. Custodes gak on Paladins.

But they are durable enough, I think. You at least need to direct heavy guns at them. If they are still bad with their current stat line I'd just ajdust their points values.

jcd386 wrote:
I personally think a good fix might be to make normal Terminator armor reduce wounds taken by 1 to a minimum of 1.

This way, 1D guns are still just as good as now, 3D kills them outright, but 2D takes 2 shots to kill them.

That is a really neat idea. I like it. Probably limit it to shooting only. Power Fists / Power Klaws are already kinda ineffective for what they should do.

Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

 kastelen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

why should admech be exempted?

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Well some factions don't have much choices when it comes to HQ, so I doubt they will make it a general rule. If anything some HQ's will get a special rule for it.
Then again, as long as they're matched-play-only rules I'm fine with whatever.

 carldooley wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

why should admech be exempted?

Would make brigades kinda hard to play seeing they are required then to field Cawl. Would be kinda weird idea that NO BRIGADE WHATSOEVER ever is fielded without Cawl. And isn't his forge set in stone as well? So no other forges ever would field brigade

Yeah, it'd be impossible to field a non-Mars admech brigade since there's only two other HQ choices. Farsight Enclaves would have a similar problem I think

 kastelen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

Any faction with limited HQs will hurt like Tau do now. Any sept besides T'au basically adds 1 Commander and then flips a coin to see if they add an ethereal or fireblade cause those are the only two options left. I really hope they remove the limitation since most armies can shrug it off like nothing.

 admironheart wrote:
Remove Custodes and their flying hippo models from the game would be a nice start.

Better to have a Rogue Trader army with a Navigator, mercs and other imperial units than some luny faction like golden Hill Giants in the empire.

Given there are 10k Custodes, they technically make 10x more sense than any specific SM Chapter having a Codex...

Apart from one faction in the tau dex can only field commander plus fireblades anyway so its just fireblade spam instead of commanders if you go for larger detachments, but seriously who outside of guard is regularly taking a brigade at 1.5 to 2k?

I think it isn't as simple as just letting everyone or no one take X number of HQs since they are all so different.

Admech and most other armies are likely fine without HQ restrictions. Its really only Tau and Nids that seem to have HQs that are so good you are silly not to put all of your points into them.

I think with Tau the fact that the commanders can hide behind other units and also be some of the most effective shooting units in the game poses a problem. You probably don't want someone to run 7 of them from a "is this game fun" perspective, but you still want them to be a good unit. So limiting them send like a reasonable solution. The only other options are probably nerfing their effectiveness or increasing their cost so much that no one wants to take more than a few of them, and that's not much fun either.

For nids, to me it seems like the flying hive tyrant is mostly just too good at what it does for how much it costs. 7 of them dropping in is just such a powerful alphastrike, and they are effective in all phases of the game.

I don't see any other races having similar issues. If someone really wanted to bring 7 space marine commanders, librarians, etc, Or any other "small" HQ unit, I don't think that would be a big balance issue.

Hq restrictions are stupid and a stop gap. Just point the damn things appropriately and you won’t have a fething problem


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also any bets on how the knight codex is handled? Knights stil shoehorned into super heavy detachments?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Also any bets on how the knight codex is handled? Knights stil shoehorned into super heavy detachments?

Surely yes, right? Why would the armigers be lords of war otherwise?

jcd386 wrote:
I think it isn't as simple as just letting everyone or no one take X number of HQs since they are all so different.

Admech and most other armies are likely fine without HQ restrictions. Its really only Tau and Nids that seem to have HQs that are so good you are silly not to put all of your points into them.

I think with Tau the fact that the commanders can hide behind other units and also be some of the most effective shooting units in the game poses a problem. You probably don't want someone to run 7 of them from a "is this game fun" perspective, but you still want them to be a good unit. So limiting them send like a reasonable solution. The only other options are probably nerfing their effectiveness or increasing their cost so much that no one wants to take more than a few of them, and that's not much fun either.

For nids, to me it seems like the flying hive tyrant is mostly just too good at what it does for how much it costs. 7 of them dropping in is just such a powerful alphastrike, and they are effective in all phases of the game.

I don't see any other races having similar issues. If someone really wanted to bring 7 space marine commanders, librarians, etc, Or any other "small" HQ unit, I don't think that would be a big balance issue.

Daemon princes, Blood Angel thunderhammer captains, Grandmaster Dreadknights (balanced since the rest of their codex is trash), IG tank commanders, literally any smite spam HQ that wasn't nerfed into the ground already, all come to mind. While some are >10W and can be targeted, they are all HQs that can be spammed since they are more cost effective. People keep saying its a uniquely Tau/Nid issue and it isn't.

PiñaColada wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Also any bets on how the knight codex is handled? Knights stil shoehorned into super heavy detachments?

Surely yes, right? Why would the armigers be lords of war otherwise?

Indeed. With Armigers Knights now have a cheaper unit to fill a LoW detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DominayTrix wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
I think it isn't as simple as just letting everyone or no one take X number of HQs since they are all so different.

Admech and most other armies are likely fine without HQ restrictions. Its really only Tau and Nids that seem to have HQs that are so good you are silly not to put all of your points into them.

I think with Tau the fact that the commanders can hide behind other units and also be some of the most effective shooting units in the game poses a problem. You probably don't want someone to run 7 of them from a "is this game fun" perspective, but you still want them to be a good unit. So limiting them send like a reasonable solution. The only other options are probably nerfing their effectiveness or increasing their cost so much that no one wants to take more than a few of them, and that's not much fun either.

For nids, to me it seems like the flying hive tyrant is mostly just too good at what it does for how much it costs. 7 of them dropping in is just such a powerful alphastrike, and they are effective in all phases of the game.

I don't see any other races having similar issues. If someone really wanted to bring 7 space marine commanders, librarians, etc, Or any other "small" HQ unit, I don't think that would be a big balance issue.

Daemon princes, Blood Angel thunderhammer captains, Grandmaster Dreadknights (balanced since the rest of their codex is trash), IG tank commanders, literally any smite spam HQ that wasn't nerfed into the ground already, all come to mind. While some are >10W and can be targeted, they are all HQs that can be spammed since they are more cost effective. People keep saying its a uniquely Tau/Nid issue and it isn't.

Custodes jetbike captains is another.

I fought an army with Magnus, Mortarion, Blood Thirster, Keeper of Secrets and, a Lord of Change. It didn't have much troop support but it was a bear (and he got to go first).

Post Adepticon after playing 3 Nurgle deamons lists, they seriously need a FNP nerf or points increase.

-1 to hit armies have got to go!

I'd also like to see Guilliman go to 10W....

 chimeara wrote:
I'd also like to see Guilliman go to 10W....

hah, back handed buff

So April or may folks? We thinking this or infinity war come out first?

 kastelen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

Well, Farsight only has 2 options as well. (commander + fireblade). So long as the enginseer is not limited it would be comparable.

I think his phrasing was a little too all inclusive.

Dandelion wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
Silence, considering it is getting delayed?

OTOH, one of two things. Either a repeal of the Tau Commander limitation, or a statement that each HQ may only be taken once in a detachment.

Unless you play admech I'm guessing?

Well, Farsight only has 2 options as well. (commander + fireblade). So long as the enginseer is not limited it would be comparable.

I think his phrasing was a little too all inclusive.

Sisters have St. C (1 per army) and Canoness so that would be tricky