Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ordana wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Imperium keyword is banned within a detachment. I am not certain the stream indicated that it was banned in the whole army.

what's the point of that? guard detatchments are a dime a dozen.

It was more for the Ynnari problem.

It does not effect Ynnari since the Ynnari keyword is already limited to pure Ynnari detachments.

Ynnari does not replace the other keywords so it still has a minor effect. The only change is detachments that want to use the Ynnari keyword must include a member of the Triumvirate and must all use the same craftworld/cult/coven trait. This means no mixing kabalites with dark reaprers or Eldrad with Saim-Hann shining spears.

Kdash wrote:
Slight nerf to the Eldar CP farm as well. Autarchs can no longer roll for CP when your opponent spends them.

Never could.

 kodos wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army

Correct, and with the Battalion and Brigade getting more CPs, you have to make harder choices for mixing those factions.
Is it worth taking all the units needed for a Battalion just to get some units from Faction X when the rest of my army is Faction Y?
In general, armies that stick to the same faction should get more CPs, or have to make more of a commitment to the Faction that they only wanted to add a unit or 2 of.

-

Audustum wrote:
Before anyone asks:

Custodes, BA, GK

DA also didn't get a specific FAQ

 Galef wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army

Correct, and with the Battalion and Brigade getting more CPs, you have to make harder choices for mixing those factions.
Is it worth taking all the units needed for a Battalion just to get some units from Faction X when the rest of my army is Faction Y?
In general, armies that stick to the same faction should get more CPs, or have to make more of a commitment to the Faction that they only wanted to add a unit or 2 of.

-

This is laughably false. Soup armies are exactly the same except now that get more CP for their guard CP farm than they did before.

ERJAK wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army

Correct, and with the Battalion and Brigade getting more CPs, you have to make harder choices for mixing those factions.
Is it worth taking all the units needed for a Battalion just to get some units from Faction X when the rest of my army is Faction Y?
In general, armies that stick to the same faction should get more CPs, or have to make more of a commitment to the Faction that they only wanted to add a unit or 2 of.

-

This is laughably false. Soup armies are exactly the same except now that get more CP for their guard CP farm than they did before.

of course soup is the same
or did you really think that the soup GW was talking regarding nerfs about is the same that is played outside the GW HQ

So no one is now going to play the overpowered Chaos Brigade Detachment soup, all the people were complaining about any more

the same way as GW said they removed Deathstars from the game, but were talking about something different and now we just call them bubblewrap instead

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Zid wrote:
Most "game breaking" or "Overpowered" strategems are limited as it is... are there any specific strategems that now will break the game so hard with that many CP? Most armies will just be using these to reroll a dice a phase.

Endless Cacophony on my Slaanesh Obliterators. They will be arriving from reserves turn 2 and firing twice. Then again on turn 3. Then again on turn 4.

Seriously, my main Chaos list now has 20 CPs. With the ToT nerf, not sure what else I would use the points for.

Right, but thats one squad per turn shooting twice. Its not THAT game breaking. Still great, but not OP. Plus many other armies can do that too... its not a special case.

ERJAK wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army

Correct, and with the Battalion and Brigade getting more CPs, you have to make harder choices for mixing those factions.
Is it worth taking all the units needed for a Battalion just to get some units from Faction X when the rest of my army is Faction Y?
In general, armies that stick to the same faction should get more CPs, or have to make more of a commitment to the Faction that they only wanted to add a unit or 2 of.

-

This is laughably false. Soup armies are exactly the same except now that get more CP for their guard CP farm than they did before.

I think the FAQ makes it clear that GW has never seen a problem with soup armies, only soup detachments. So my army of Dark Angels Air Wing Detachment, Sisters Outrider Detachment, and Guard Spearhead Detachment is still perfectly legal. Everyone considers this list "soup" and it's untouched by the FAQ. I personally never ran a soup detachment before, I guess this was big with Celestine?

I also think the turn 1 deep strike change is going to be very good for the game, and I even have a very assulty BA army. For one it helps tanks that can't fall out of combat and shoot immensely, and they really needed that one turn to try and adjust. It allows armies with psykers who lose the first turn to buff up before the inevitable charge - yes this is a nerf of sorts to the charging unit, but honestly, getting lucky with getting the first turn and assaulting your opponents whole line, potentially shutting down multiple units before the player even gets a turn never felt like that fell within the spirit of the game. And finally the charging units themselves weren't nerfed directly, they're still as powerful as ever, and their turn 2 charge will have just as much oomph as their turn 1 would have. For me the biggest nerf is the power rating balance thing, it really takes away ones ability to have almost a full powerhouse assaulting army in deep strike with just enough cheap chaff units to meet the 50% requirement.

As an eldar player first and foremost I'm breathing a sigh of relief, with the exception of the basic warlock, that was just cruel. Yes farseers were too cheap and 10 points is a scratch, and the spiritseer has a full-powered smite and a relevant aura, 45 points was way too cheap. But the lowly warlock is 2 wounds, no relevant buff, and a baby smite, it didn't deserve the same 20 point hike. Oddly all the skyrunner variants are untouched, thankfully. I never spammed reapers, but I almost always run one full 10-man squad. The 70 point tax isn't nothing, but it isn't enough where I've abandoned the full 10, or abandoned any of my lists with them in it. I just had to make a few minor tweaks.

Here are some observations:

1) Plasma not nerfed
2) Apparently GW love CP and want us to have more
3) Commander nerf = everything

 peteralmo wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army

Correct, and with the Battalion and Brigade getting more CPs, you have to make harder choices for mixing those factions.
Is it worth taking all the units needed for a Battalion just to get some units from Faction X when the rest of my army is Faction Y?
In general, armies that stick to the same faction should get more CPs, or have to make more of a commitment to the Faction that they only wanted to add a unit or 2 of.

-

This is laughably false. Soup armies are exactly the same except now that get more CP for their guard CP farm than they did before.

I think the FAQ makes it clear that GW has never seen a problem with soup armies, only soup detachments. So my army of Dark Angels Air Wing Detachment, Sisters Outrider Detachment, and Guard Spearhead Detachment is still perfectly legal. Everyone considers this list "soup" and it's untouched by the FAQ. I personally never ran a soup detachment before, I guess this was big with Celestine?

I also think the turn 1 deep strike change is going to be very good for the game, and I even have a very assulty BA army. For one it helps tanks that can't fall out of combat and shoot immensely, and they really needed that one turn to try and adjust. It allows armies with psykers who lose the first turn to buff up before the inevitable charge - yes this is a nerf of sorts to the charging unit, but honestly, getting lucky with getting the first turn and assaulting your opponents whole line, potentially shutting down multiple units before the player even gets a turn never felt like that fell within the spirit of the game. And finally the charging units themselves weren't nerfed directly, they're still as powerful as ever, and their turn 2 charge will have just as much oomph as their turn 1 would have. For me the biggest nerf is the power rating balance thing, it really takes away ones ability to have almost a full powerhouse assaulting army in deep strike with just enough cheap chaff units to meet the 50% requirement.

As an eldar player first and foremost I'm breathing a sigh of relief, with the exception of the basic warlock, that was just cruel. Yes farseers were too cheap and 10 points is a scratch, and the spiritseer has a full-powered smite and a relevant aura, 45 points was way too cheap. But the lowly warlock is 2 wounds, no relevant buff, and a baby smite, it didn't deserve the same 20 point hike. Oddly all the skyrunner variants are untouched, thankfully. I never spammed reapers, but I almost always run one full 10-man squad. The 70 point tax isn't nothing, but it isn't enough where I've abandoned the full 10, or abandoned any of my lists with them in it. I just had to make a few minor tweaks.

Thanks guys this is the type of commentary I needed. Thought I missed something when I read the FAQ the first go.

Most Celestine list Ive seen, she is taken as an Aux detachment for -1 CP.

Poor admech only have 2 hq choices. They might not be able to brigade any more.... or double brigade at least

gendoikari87 wrote:
Poor admech only have 2 hq choices. They might not be able to brigade any more.... or double brigade at least

Who needs 33 27 command points?
Brigades are already rarely worth the tax. Why would anyone want 2 Oo

Becomes more important at 3k, 4k etc games.

Well assuming they can burn that many CP. But Brigade+other detachments becomes also issue.

BTW wouldn't that be 27 anyway? 12 per brigade+3

tneva82 wrote:
Becomes more important at 3k, 4k etc games.

Well assuming they can burn that many CP. But Brigade+other detachments becomes also issue.

BTW wouldn't that be 27 anyway? 12 per brigade+3

The 0-3 limit is higher at higher points.
And Brigades are now +15 (and +5 for Battalions).

Don't forget that a 3k game let you have 4 of each data sheet. This also bring the minor question of what GW's intentions are for games over 3k points. Do they want trend on the chart to continue? Or do the floodgates open up at 3001 points?

I would assume that they don't intend you to use the organized play rules for games that large. I mean seriously is anyone running a tournament with 4k per army? Or a league?

It would seem they intend for you to use the Apoc rules from CA, which use PL and not matched play rules.

 Ordana wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Becomes more important at 3k, 4k etc games.

Well assuming they can burn that many CP. But Brigade+other detachments becomes also issue.

BTW wouldn't that be 27 anyway? 12 per brigade+3

The 0-3 limit is higher at higher points.
And Brigades are now +15 (and +5 for Battalions).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

That claims it went from 9 to 12

The 0-3 limit is higher at higher points.
And Brigades are now +15 (and +5 for Battalions).

Brigades went from +9 to +12, not +12 to +15.

Woops my bad, the point still stands 27 CP is more then you can ever usefully spend.