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Sounds more like a rule that goes on top of a superheave detachment taken with knights.

Someone posted an image of the rule a couple pages back. It literally says if you don't have 3 big knights in your super heavy detachment you get zero CP for that detachment. Its an IK army rule so it wouldn't cover other armies.

So they implemented strategy to allow knights to even attack people on higher terrain. At least something but having to spend cp to do what should be possible normally

If a knight can reach out and touch a guy...or if that guy is level with the knight's melee weapon...it should be allowed to him them. I do like that a knight cannot stomp people on the second floor or up though. I don't think this should need to be a stratagem.

tneva82 wrote:
So they implemented strategy to allow knights to even attack people on higher terrain. At least something but having to spend cp to do what should be possible normally

Honestly seeing that strat really lowered my opinion of GWs rules writers (as if it could go lower, right?) They show that they know this is an issue, but instead of actually fixing the rules, they give a strat that will barely work (units will often be on multiple floors), only works for one round, AND you have to pay for. And then it leaves no fix for all the other units that have this same problem. And this suggests that now they won't ever properly fix it.

It's a totally maddening level of contempt for the player base.

I agree that saying "working as intended, no cylinder needed, here's a special exception you can use sometimes" was not an awesome choice

I think my local game store is just going to implement common sense for it or the cylinder thing instead and this stratagem will never see the light of day.

 mmzero252 wrote:
I think my local game store is just going to implement common sense for it or the cylinder thing instead and this stratagem will never see the light of day.

Already done here

Though i do like no stomping upper floor. That makes sense and gives more purpose for dedicated cc weapons

So the dirty traitors are still the only ones who can take double gats?

The Dominus sprue layout with the carapace and parts of the torso with the weapons is interesting. Potential for some very different looks if/when GW make more variants.

tneva82 wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
I think my local game store is just going to implement common sense for it or the cylinder thing instead and this stratagem will never see the light of day.

Already done here

Though i do like no stomping upper floor. That makes sense and gives more purpose for dedicated cc weapons

That's more in line with what I meant about the common sense part. Like a cylinder is great but I do like the way the stratagem is worded. "Within 2" and 6" up, but stomps automatically miss things not on the ground floor." - This all seems like the way it should just function.Adapt that to all Lords of War that have arms or melee weapons that could realistically reach as a standard rule. Also probably Riptides, Stormsurges, G/Morkanauts, and Wraithknights. Dreadnaughts and the like are just too short.

I fully understand taking away the ability for a monster to start climbing a building to fight, but that shouldn't be allowed to hinder something with enough reach from being able to get at people in that building.

And there really is nothing stopping gw from expanding that strategem or making it a general rule in the next round of faqs or chapter approved

changemod wrote:
Okay so both the Facebook page and the stream earlier had guys saying you -can- take an all freeblade detachment but “they might not work well together”.

Anyhow what they were avoiding saying there is that you can only take traits for one freeblade per detachment. That said, the freeblade doesn’t count against your household trait.

Wat.

Guess im just picking a household for my Freeblades then...

Btw seems the armiger no cp is specific for knight lance detachment. Wonder if that replaces superheavy detachment or could you take armigers in normal sh det for cp and what the downsides would be?

Maybe the Knight Lance is worth more CPs? That or maybe as I mentioned some posts back the Knights won't be able to get a character out of a Super Heavy Detachment anymore. I'm sure there's some convoluted reasoning behind adding a new detachment for the same purpose.

From the GW webstore: Codex: Imperial Knights (Enhanced Edition)



Knight Lances
If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

Super heavy detachment is just the one in the rulebook, no? So if its an Imperial Knight one you get no cps unless you have at least 3 big guys per detachment.

Its not a new detachment,

So they realy did copy/paste a bunch of random parts onto a new sprue for that terrain, huh/

Seeing some of the nuts strategems I can see why they were so hesitant to allow cp, I think they forgot guard exists though. The price reductions to things like rfbc seem to not be necessary now precisely because they beefed up things with traits strats and relics

the_Grak wrote:
From the GW webstore: Codex: Imperial Knights (Enhanced Edition)



Knight Lances
If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

Welp, there goes about half their potential sales, including mine. Shooting themselves in the foot with a knight sized harpoon launcher for 10 damage + 1d3 mortal wounds. I cannot fathom how the same team that figured out cool stuff like thunderstrike gauntlets tossing stuff around could also put this in. The viability of knights in the meta is already borderline, and their strats expensive. This is just too much of a middle finger to the players. Imagine being the guy who made those cool sculpts, only to see them gather dust on the shelves because they let an idiot write the rules.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So they realy did copy/paste a bunch of random parts onto a new sprue for that terrain, huh/

Yup, recut a whole sprue. Bit strange IMO.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Super heavy detachment is just the one in the rulebook, no? So if its an Imperial Knight one you get no cps unless you have at least 3 big guys per detachment.

Its not a new detachment,

It's basically a special rule for knights. Take 3 big knights, one in each super heavy detachment and they all become characters but you get no command points. Somehow take 3 big knights in one Super Heavy and 1 plus some armigers in another and you get +3 command points and two of those knights are characters.

So...yeah pretty crap.Why give us rules to select multiple knights as characters but deny all command points for a detachment unless we use 3 big knights in it? It's literally set up for three detachments with a big knight in each followed by armigers.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Super heavy detachment is just the one in the rulebook, no? So if its an Imperial Knight one you get no cps unless you have at least 3 big guys per detachment.

Its not a new detachment,

It's basically a special rule for knights. Take 3 big knights, one in each super heavy detachment and they all become characters but you get no command points. Somehow take 3 big knights in one Super Heavy and 1 plus some armigers in another and you get +3 command points and two of those knights are characters.

So...yeah pretty crap.Why give us rules to select multiple knights as characters but deny all command points for a detachment unless we use 3 big knights in it? It's literally set up for three detachments with a big knight in each followed by armigers.

To sell new models.

If you can't see why they want you to group your armigers in one detachment and big knights in the other to benefit from character and warlord traits then you're a muppet.

In another universe this rule wasn't inserted and this same thread is full of the same muppets saying "OMG its so OP you can take 3 knight lances and gave 3 character knights GW you are idiots"

You can still take a superheavy detachment with 1 knight and 2 armigers and get CP but your knight doesn't become a character.

Okay, but I’m frankly not going to build a full household of large knights when I can do so in Adeptus Titanicus for the cost of a few terminator boxes. I briefly considered a harpoon knight, but honestly it’s body isn’t a pretty design and it’s a big purchase for a model I won’t field much.

Whereas I have four Warglaives from forgebane kits and am planning on at least one helverin box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silentz wrote:
If you can't see why they want you to group your armigers in one detachment and big knights in the other to benefit from character and warlord traits then you're a muppet.

In another universe this rule wasn't inserted and this same thread is full of the same muppets saying "OMG its so OP you can take 3 knight lances and gave 3 character knights GW you are idiots"

You can still take a superheavy detachment with 1 knight and 2 armigers and get CP but your knight doesn't become a character.

You can take three Armigers and one of those Armigers will become a character and gain access to warlord traits.

You just don’t get command points, when significantly more overpowered horde armies get handed them out like candy.

 Silentz wrote:
If you can't see why they want you to group your armigers in one detachment and big knights in the other to benefit from character and warlord traits then you're a muppet.

In another universe this rule wasn't inserted and this same thread is full of the same muppets saying "OMG its so OP you can take 3 knight lances and gave 3 character knights GW you are idiots"

You can still take a superheavy detachment with 1 knight and 2 armigers and get CP but your knight doesn't become a character.

I uh..think you may want to re-read what it said. Nothing you said lines up at all.

"Knight Lances
If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units."

You get 1 character per super heavy detachment. You get no command points unless the detachment contains at least 3 big knights. So yeah, you can have 3 super heavy detachments with only 1 big knight and all the rest are full of armigers, but that means you get 1 character knight and 2 character armigers and no command points.

changemod wrote:


You can take three Armigers and one of those Armigers will become a character and gain access to warlord traits.

You just don’t get command points, when significantly more overpowered horde armies get handed them out like candy.

Nope don't think so. That's just a standard super heavy detachment and WILL give CPs.

Your super heavy detachment is only a Knight Lance if it contains at least 3 full size knights. Otherwise it's just the plain old regular superheavy detachment

That is absolutely not what it says.

The Knight Lance rule is an army rule that applies to all Imperial Knight Super Heavy detachments.

So if you want armigers and command points then pick some other detachment keyword. You'll get CP but not a character.

 Silentz wrote:

changemod wrote:


You can take three Armigers and one of those Armigers will become a character and gain access to warlord traits.

You just don’t get command points, when significantly more overpowered horde armies get handed them out like candy.

Nope don't think so. That's just a standard super heavy detachment and WILL give CPs.

Your super heavy detachment is only a Knight Lance if it contains at least 3 full size knights. Otherwise it's just the plain old regular superheavy detachment

It’s pretty explicit: Any imperial knights superheavy detachment can nominate one knight to be a character. Command benefits of the detachment are lost unless three of them aren’t Armigers.

I'll go read it all again but I am reading it as a choice to allow you to get the bonuses of character rules and warlord traits, rather than a mandatory change...

Maybe I am the muppet

Looks mandatory to me...