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That fort could give you a points refund and it still wouodnt br good.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The movement buff could work wonders on the Knight Valiant, or a Gallant that you're saving up for something.

Yeah i was thinking a gallant maybe even with a relic fist, flinging it across the battlefield T1 into enemy lines.

20 str 8 attacks as ws2 is also incredibly insane, just charge all the things

That terrain gives boost t2 earliest right? Need to be there turn without shooting

So, i'm on the side of the shrine absolutely sucking.

A Gallant has ways of getting a 1st turn charge without the shrine (plus the shrine won't let the Gallant charge that turn anyway...) So even if you were going for a turn 2 charge, you should be in a position to do it regardless.

Re-charging the Valiant might be ok, but, with a 28" threat range to begin with, you're prob going to be in range of front screens and scouts anyway. Plus, you prob don't want to be giving up the shooting of a missile and cannons for a turn. As soon as people start seeing more Knights, lists will change to deal with them better. Giving up a turn of shooting will generally mean you're Knight doesn't survive to do much next turn (especially if you've gone 2nd).

If you are out of range of shooting with the Valiant, then, you can always just save the 80 points and advance turn 1...

So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

I guess you could conceivably use it to refuel a gallant and hurl it forwards. But doing that would mean holding it back on turn one. So you aren’t really gaining anything- and you’re paying for it.

Oh and you’re buying a ruin to put guys in. That’s a good upgrade for some armies, but obviously not knights!

What a joke. The only positive is that they’ve served up all the weaksauce in the book in one building, which you can leave un-bought. There are lots of cool new toys for IK players but this is one less hole in your wallet.

Definitely not seeing the utility of the shrine. It takes the Knight essentially out of commission for a turn. Why not just go for broke and and run the Knight like normal?

It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

Huh.... rites of refueling.... plus the advance and charge strat plus terryn


18" move plus 3d6 drop the lowest (8.5") plus another charge of 8.5"

that's 35" of movement average for house terryn in one turn

Or you could have moved and shot in the turn prior. Seems one of these is far better than the other. Parking for a turn is not the good choice.

This release seems like it had two writers who didn't talk to each other. Some of it is very excellent and themeatic. And then some of it is steamy hot garbage. Armigers were advertised as a way to fill out Super Heavy detachments to get more CP, and then do exactly the opposite. Then there is this terrain which has completely craptastic rules. Could have been fun and themeatic, but isn't. Best part is both are sold in the Knight Lance set on the GW webstore. So you can get screwed out of CP and pay pts for a useless piece of terrain all at once.

 BrookM wrote:
It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

I suppose if you start with the Valiant docked and then run it up the field. Since the Shrine doesn't prevent Advancing, set the Shrine up with just enough space to fit your Valiant on the edge of your Deployment Zone, then move and Advance first turn. Then, provided your Valiant is still alive on your turn, go to where you need to and burninate the countryside. The Harpoon probably wasn't going to be able to be fired on first turn anyway.

Edit: Nevermind, it is the END of the movement phase. So scratch that. It is trash.

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

Its cool from a narrative point of view, so they painted themselves into a corner. The real failure if you ask me was not building it on wheels.

I’m not sure I would give up a turn of shooting for all three of those effects, much less just one of them.

 BrookM wrote:
It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

I suppose it does have very niche application against alpha strike armies - not only it does provide some cover, you can give up the shooting you won't get anyway to reply in overwatch or your turn with maximum dakka. Though, yeah, I'd just buy more units instead...

Amusingly even in the context of actually using the healing ability, a tech priest is better off standing outside the terrain piece and repairing separately than opting to assist it.

Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

tneva82 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The movement buff could work wonders on the Knight Valiant, or a Gallant that you're saving up for something.

Yeah i was thinking a gallant maybe even with a relic fist, flinging it across the battlefield T1 into enemy lines.

20 str 8 attacks as ws2 is also incredibly insane, just charge all the things

That terrain gives boost t2 earliest right? Need to be there turn without shooting

I'm assuming that rule is for units already not docked and you can start docked in it, like any other fortification. if not it's entirely a useless terrain piece which I will be using a lot.... just as terrain, just average ordinary terrain.

Another awkward thing about the Shrine is that you cannot use the Ritual of Reloading to get max shots on a weapon if you have fired one or more of your missiles on a Castellan or Valiant. In order to use the max shot option, your knight either has to have its full load of missiles or have no option for missiles (because you armed it with something else).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Regarding the terrain...while it does sound crap at the start, a few things to consider:

1) If you build a Knight army, more often than not you're going to have X leftover points. If you have, whatever it costs (80 points?)...then add it.

2) If you buy the Knight Renegade boxed set - it now comes with enough terrain to build this, so you're getting a free bonus unit in that box (I don't think anyone will care what kit you use to construct that shrine)

3) If you're at your lowest tier, but can reasonably get into the middle tier...it could almost be worthwhile, particularly if you super-charge your weapon for one last fight (assuming you don't get taken down again in your opponent's turn).

4) The way we play 40K here, if a Knight is behind something that size he'd get a cover save...so you're actually buying yourself a piece of Knight sized cover?

I don't think it's as bad as the Eldar Warp Portal, but yeah the terrain pieces thus far are rather uninspiring.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Yeah. It completely changes what I end up wanting to do. Having 3 Terryn Warglaives show up to be greeted by a Terryn warlord booking it down the table with the +2/+2 advance/charge trait would give them only a 7" requirement on 3d6 dropping the lowest if he could make it within range.

That's... Pretty neat.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Yeah. It completely changes what I end up wanting to do. Having 3 Terryn Warglaives show up to be greeted by a Terryn warlord booking it down the table with the +2/+2 advance/charge trait would give them only a 7" requirement on 3d6 dropping the lowest if he could make it within range.

That's... Pretty neat.

I think it's unit, so several armigers can outflank. I also believe it's 3CP so I was never that interested. Not that it probably should be cheaper, just that knights have some other good stratagems and relics I'd rather spend CP on

With an AM and Admech Battalion, including a CP battery I'll have 13CP to start, so while I agree it isn't always necessary, some deployments will make it a solid option if I drop them last and the opponent positions poorly

Wow, the Devastating Reach strategem... Actually accounting for their bizarre Ruins and CC rules?

They should give this as a BRB strategem for all Monsters.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Wow, the Devastating Reach strategem... Actually accounting for their bizarre Ruins and CC rules?

They should give this as a BRB strategem for all Monsters.

for the most part, the stratagems are pretty decent. Too bad an all Knight list will only have six CP max.

The Knight Lance should give +6 CP as a Command Benefit given its ridiculous requirements.

man this is a bummer ... preceptor will come in a few months instead

"You’ll have to wait a wee bit longer for the last new release to go alongside the new codex. The valiant Freeblade Sir Hekhtur, and his Knight Preceptor steed Canis Rex, will be available later in the year as part of a dual kit that also builds the Knight Preceptor (not to mention every other variant of Questoris-class Knight).

We showed off Sir Hekhtur last week (see here for more details about him), and you’ll get his full rules in the codex. We’ll be letting you know when he’s approaching (not that you’ll miss him in his ground-shaking Knight), so keep a close eye on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page for more news."
Edit: probably alongside SW with the whole canis acronym and yada yada

That's a damned shame indeed...

Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Facebook article verifies that the Knight Preceptor box comes with EVERY weapon option available for the GW Questoris-class Knight. So now I will have three Avenger Gatling Cannons. But I don't know what I want to do with it. I might make a Crusader now, or give it to my brother since he doesn't have a AGC for any of his Knights.

Well, Canis Rex not coming out now does bite ass, but I have four Knights already.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Why?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Why?

Freeblades have been fluffed as taking the iconography of those they're fighting alongside of, and what looks to be one of the more important members of the Imperial side of Rogue Trader has a very similar wolfshead as Canis Rex does.

Plus a Rogue Trader would be a great way for a Knight Freeblade to get around.

Cool. I was almost tempted to buy a preceptor. Glad I won’t be able to!

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

100x this. To be fair, GW does often do stuff that’s so bafflingly stupid that it’s hard to believe they aren’t doing it on purpose. Nobody with an ounce of sense would price dark reapers at 27pts, just to pick one example. Somebody at GW not only did this, but they were actually paid a salary as a game designer to do it.

But what would their motive be for making reapers too cheap? It can’t have been sales - they didn’t have enough dark reapers in stock to meet the demand they created.

Sadly then, we can only conclude that they really, really don’t get it. They are doing their best, bless them.