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Thank you. Just for absolute clarity- I'm planning on running an aux detachment with 2 armigers. For 1 CP I'd like to make one a character. Then use my free relic (from my base army) to give him the 5++ saves (since it doesn't have any pre-reqs). Would this be legal?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thank you. Just for absolute clarity- I'm planning on running an aux detachment with 2 armigers. For 1 CP I'd like to make one a character. Then use my free relic (from my base army) to give him the 5++ saves (since it doesn't have any pre-reqs). Would this be legal?

Nope your free relic must come from your warlords faction.

I would have sworn that you could use any relic as your free relic. But, if that's the case, then it would cost me another CP to give the armiger a relic.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I would have sworn that you could use any relic as your free relic. But, if that's the case, then it would cost me another CP to give the armiger a relic.

Wont work either. Exalted court strat only allows you to pick a questoris or dominus to be a character.

Doctor-boom wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I would have sworn that you could use any relic as your free relic. But, if that's the case, then it would cost me another CP to give the armiger a relic.

Wont work either. Exalted court strat only allows you to pick a questoris or dominus to be a character.

Hope fw rules in cerastus and acastus class to work with some of these strategems and relics.

Doctor-boom wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I would have sworn that you could use any relic as your free relic. But, if that's the case, then it would cost me another CP to give the armiger a relic.

Wont work either. Exalted court strat only allows you to pick a questoris or dominus to be a character.

Drats and double drats. Oh well, back to the drawing board. I really wonder what role Armigers are supposed to play according to GW. They can't be used to gain CP and they really can't be upgraded by themselves. I guess there may be a strategy that they can use but...

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

Doctor-boom wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I would have sworn that you could use any relic as your free relic. But, if that's the case, then it would cost me another CP to give the armiger a relic.

Wont work either. Exalted court strat only allows you to pick a questoris or dominus to be a character.

Drats and double drats. Oh well, back to the drawing board. I really wonder what role Armigers are supposed to play according to GW. They can't be used to gain CP and they really can't be upgraded by themselves. I guess there may be a strategy that they can use but...

Well they're basically contemptor dreadnoughts (or round about) so they must be good for something.

If I buy the new renegade box, am thinking of going a Griffith super gallant + gatlermelta crusader.

Griffith gallant, WL, +1 A, paragon gauntlet 354
Crusader gatler melta 461
3x hurricane shield captains 160x3 480
1x4 guard, 2 S&B, 2 spears 222
2x3 guard, 1 S&B, 2 spears 163x2 326
Allarus vexilla. 134
1977

Waddya think? Not competitive but I could probably do ok at a local because of the amount of high toughness stuff.

Also, many places have said gallants get +1 attack as well as WS, is this true? I've seen it denied elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, also, WHY IN THE HELL DOES AN ARMIGER STOP ME FROM GAINING CP. And also if I take a single detachment, i DONT GET ACCESS TO FREEBLSDES OR HOUSE TRADITIONS.



FREEBLADES: WORK ON THEIR OWN, TRAVEL ON THEIR OWN, ARE NOT BOUND TO ANYONE.

Yet, I cannot gain FREEBLADES abilities in a super heavy aux.


Who wrote this gak? It's rubbish.

So, the headsmans mark, why have we not been talking about this relic?

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


Yet, I cannot gain FREEBLADES abilities in a super heavy aux.


Who wrote this gak? It's rubbish.

actually you can ... you just don't gain command benefits (ergo CPs) ... but since you are doing the aux it doesn't matter

gendoikari87 wrote:
So, the headsmans mark, why have we not been talking about this relic?

Cause it's, alright. D3 Gatlers do sound good (or D4 vs titanics).

However, I'm more infatuated with Thunder of Voltoris: House Terryn only (which is a shame) but a S9 RFBC and you roll 3d6 and discard the lowest for number of shots? I don't understand why people aren't talking about this!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aracersss wrote:

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


Yet, I cannot gain FREEBLADES abilities in a super heavy aux.


Who wrote this gak? It's rubbish.

actually you can ... you just don't gain command benefits (ergo CPs) ... but since you are doing the aux it doesn't matter

Actually, you can't.

From the Codex:
"Imperial Knights detachments (excluding Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain the following abilities."

Freeblades are still Freeblades in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment. The Freeblade qualities and burdens require only that a Freeblade model be part of a Detachment in a Battle-forged army. Nothing in there about needing to be in a Lance.
Nothing in the Lance rules says anything about Freeblades losing access to the Qualities and Burdens tables either; only that Freeblades which happen to be part of a Lance can’t benefit from a Household Tradition, and so what? They weren’t getting one if you put them in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment anyway.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Freeblades are still Freeblades in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment. The Freeblade qualities and burdens require only that a Freeblade model be part of a Detachment in a Battle-forged army. Nothing in there about needing to be in a Lance.
Nothing in the Lance rules says anything about Freeblades losing access to the Qualities and Burdens tables either; only that Freeblades which happen to be part of a Lance can’t benefit from a Household Tradition, and so what? They weren’t getting one if you put them in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment anyway.

Freeblade is one of the abilities you get from having an Imperial Knight army - I refer to my previous quote from the Codex.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Freeblades are still Freeblades in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment. The Freeblade qualities and burdens require only that a Freeblade model be part of a Detachment in a Battle-forged army. Nothing in there about needing to be in a Lance.
Nothing in the Lance rules says anything about Freeblades losing access to the Qualities and Burdens tables either; only that Freeblades which happen to be part of a Lance can’t benefit from a Household Tradition, and so what? They weren’t getting one if you put them in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment anyway.

Freeblade is one of the abilities you get from having an Imperial Knight army - I refer to my previous quote from the Codex.

What quote? The one where you mentioned a subsection heading but didn’t include the content of the subsection?
Because that subsection reads:

Freeblades
The inclusion of a FREEBLADE unit in an IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachment does not prevent other units in the Detachment from gaining a Household Tradition. However FREEBLADE units can never themselves benefit from a Household Tradition.

I don’t see how that affects Qualities and Burdens in the slightest…?

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Freeblades are still Freeblades in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment. The Freeblade qualities and burdens require only that a Freeblade model be part of a Detachment in a Battle-forged army. Nothing in there about needing to be in a Lance.
Nothing in the Lance rules says anything about Freeblades losing access to the Qualities and Burdens tables either; only that Freeblades which happen to be part of a Lance can’t benefit from a Household Tradition, and so what? They weren’t getting one if you put them in a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment anyway.

Freeblade is one of the abilities you get from having an Imperial Knight army - I refer to my previous quote from the Codex.

What quote? The one where you mentioned a subsection heading but didn’t include the content of the subsection?
Because that subsection reads:

Freeblades
The inclusion of a FREEBLADE unit in an IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachment does not prevent other units in the Detachment from gaining a Household Tradition. However FREEBLADE units can never themselves benefit from a Household Tradition.

I don’t see how that affects Qualities and Burdens in the slightest…?

My mistake, the Freeblade nominating rules is on a different page.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Actually, you can't.

From the Codex:
"Imperial Knights detachments (excluding Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain the following abilities."

Freeblade qualities or burdens aren't referred to anywhere on that page. It only refers to which models can use Household Traditions. The only quote that matters is one the main Freeblade page:

"If your army is Battle-forged , then before the battle you can give one FREEBLADE model in each Detachment Qualities and Burdens."

That's it. Nothing there about aux detachments. It does prevent super-heavy aux freeblades being characters for free, but not from using freeblade special rules.

 xttz wrote:
It does prevent super-heavy aux freeblades being characters for free, but not from using freeblade special rules.

what's preventing them from being characters for free? ... can't they be your warlord if you wished?

what's preventing them from being characters for free? ... can't they be your warlord if you wished?

One Knight in a Super-Heavy Detachment with three full size knights can be a character for free. Aux Super Heavy Detachments don't have this ability. You can make it your Warlord, but it wouldn't get a Warlord trait unless you made it a character.

darn it ... I see

Question: the three close combat after-effect stratagems (“Thunderstomp”, “Chainsweep”, and “Death Grip”) all say they can be activated “immediately after fighting with” a Knight – does this include Consolidation?

Also, I don’t see anything stopping you activating all three for one model in the same round?

Can’t do all three. Each requires a different weapon; at sweep and crush do.

Timing of the effect will be an interesting discussion. To me, and I’m hoping I’m maybe wrong, immediately would mean before anything else, such as consolidation.

Immediately after fighting, would be after consolidation. If It said immediately after resolving attacks it would be before consolidation, but Fighting would include the entire fight sequence.

And I’m wrong on using the strats. A Gallant has all three melee weapon types, so, maybe can do all three?

Is the storm spear middle launcher still the go-to carapace weapon? Worth taking the AA autocannons?

Any suggestions on where to pick up an extra carapace missle launcher?

Do any third party companies make replacements? Or should we just be scouring bits sellers?

Either/Or wrote:
Is the storm spear middle launcher still the go-to carapace weapon? Worth taking the AA autocannons?

Any suggestions on where to pick up an extra carapace missle launcher?

Stormspear is better than the Icarus against all targets short of weird ones like Inceptors. The Ironstorm is decent for the shots.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
Is the storm spear middle launcher still the go-to carapace weapon? Worth taking the AA autocannons?

Any suggestions on where to pick up an extra carapace missle launcher?

Stormspear is better than the Icarus against all targets short of weird ones like Inceptors. The Ironstorm is decent for the shots.

Nah .. Icarus is per point more efficient against pretty much everything with Fly and a Toughness of 5 or 6: Razorwing Jetfighters, Ravagers, Starweavers, Venoms, Hemlocks, etc.. and the Icarus' advantage becomes more pronounced, the harder the target is to hit, either because of -1, -2, etc.. issues and/or because you're Knight is not in the top bracket anymore.

Against an Alaitoc Hemlock, Icarus averages 0.89 damage (not counting spirit stones for the moment), or 0.029 per point, while the Stormspear does 0.78, or 0.017 per point.

A healthy Knight shooting a Harly Starweaver, the Icarus does 1.78 damage average (0.059 per point), the Stormspear 1.75 damage (0.039 per point).

Icarus does what it's supposed to do in it's niche.

 xttz wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Actually, you can't.

From the Codex:
"Imperial Knights detachments (excluding Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain the following abilities."

Freeblade qualities or burdens aren't referred to anywhere on that page. It only refers to which models can use Household Traditions. The only quote that matters is one the main Freeblade page:

"If your army is Battle-forged , then before the battle you can give one FREEBLADE model in each Detachment Qualities and Burdens."

That's it. Nothing there about aux detachments. It does prevent super-heavy aux freeblades being characters for free, but not from using freeblade special rules.

Hmm that seems to mean no 3 freeblades in lance detachment. Drat.

Well okay you CAN take more than 1 in det but only one gets qualities and burdens.

Justyn wrote:
Immediately after fighting, would be after consolidation. If It said immediately after resolving attacks it would be before consolidation, but Fighting would include the entire fight sequence.

That’s what I thought.
It is also interesting that the stratagems don’t mention anything about targeting models that were charged by, or even are engaged with, the model you use the stratagem on… being able to stomp (regular foot attacks) a bodyguard to paste then consolidate close enough to the HVT they were protecting that you can Death Grip it without taking further Overwatch and so forth willl be interesting, at least the first time you pull it off…

So, for Freeblades, is it going to be better to pick two or roll for one burden? Letting Rngesus decide what you get will suck if you get the rage on a Crusader, but is it better than having to have two negatives on that failed LD?