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 Formosa wrote:
A baneblade is a Light TANK, as in a light main battle tank.

LRBT, Predator, Hellhound, etc. Those are all clearly tanks, and much smaller than a Baneblade. Calling a Baneblade a light tank is nonsense when it is nowhere near the lightest tank in the STC line.

The Rhino was a farm vehicle the RH'1NO, NOT an APC which it was later converted into by the Imperium, the original farm variant likely has you know... agriculture equipment

This is a tractor:



This is an APC:



This is a Rhino:



Which one does it resemble more?

either way it doesnt detract from the FACT that these vehicles are still excellent in the 41st millenium

This is not a fact. It's actually the exact opposite of a fact. Imperial tanks are terribly designed garbage and they only work because GW's designers/authors don't know any better and declare that they must be great.

The Mechanicum as it is are reluctant to share their technology between themselves (think Vanquisher turret and the rarity of Baneblades leading to the Macharius), if a full STC was found and didn't somehow lead to civil war (whether between the Mechanicus themselves or the rest of the Imperium trying to get them off their asses) you'd be lucky to have it spread to a handful of forgeworlds within the next few millenia.

A 'complete' Standard Template Construct Database, is EVERYTHING that can be manufactured by man during the Dark Age of Technology, which was a golden age for man.

Colonies used what they needed, and occasionally they needed tanks, Iron Men, etc.
Near the end of the DAoT, human tech was approaching the height of the Necrontyr. Eldar & Ork forces were easily beaten, annihilated or driven from human domains.
Alternate methods of FTL tech and research, communications tech, etc. There would be so many game-changers you'd need a large corps of researchers to process it all.

 Peregrine wrote:

This is not a fact. It's actually the exact opposite of a fact. Imperial tanks are terribly designed garbage and they only work because GW's designers/authors don't know any better and declare that they must be great.

You can't use real life logic to explain that imperial vehicles are garbage. In universe, they are great, that's the point. Don't use real life logic otherwise we wouldn't have all the great stuff we have in 40k

GrapeApe wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
If every colonist had access to every technology ever invented.

An STC is the sum knowledge of the human race during the dark age of technology, if anything I'm understating it, I do agree with peregrine however, that's why I said "if" and that's a mighty "if"

I think this is where we are having an Issue. And it may simply just be due to the fact that GW has over the years amended and re-amended the lore as time goes on.


So here's a question - Can someone actually provide a source for the statement that either:

a.) STC is Colony Construction stuff

b.) STC is the sum of all human knowledge

Because..... what an STC actually is has a large effect on what we can or cannot say it can do.

That's a good point. The lore does change. I think the earliest descriptions I remember are from the second edition core rulebooks. There is said a full STC database is believed to have contained information on all known technology. But it may not have. I mean, a lot of what we're told about the dark age of technology is sort of the mythology that the current Imperium believes about it. So yeah, it may or may not have been everything. But an STC database was sent with colonists so that they could make what they needed to colonize a world. The stuff that survived into M41 is generally stuff that was used a LOT, so there were a lot of copies made. It mentioned that the more high tech stuff it could make (like fission reactors) weren't as common, so the plans for them didn't survive.

So, one of the more high tech things they could make is a fission reactor. Something we had the technology to make 75 years ago. And which did not survive into the 41st millennium, as its STC plans were lost.

Colonizing was dangerous, so evidently colonists made use of tanks, and also lots of more mundane stuff that obviously wouldn't appear on a battlefield.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
If every colonist had access to every technology ever invented.

An STC is the sum knowledge of the human race during the dark age of technology, if anything I'm understating it, I do agree with peregrine however, that's why I said "if" and that's a mighty "if"

I think this is where we are having an Issue. And it may simply just be due to the fact that GW has over the years amended and re-amended the lore as time goes on.


So here's a question - Can someone actually provide a source for the statement that either:

a.) STC is Colony Construction stuff

b.) STC is the sum of all human knowledge

Because..... what an STC actually is has a large effect on what we can or cannot say it can do.

That's a good point. The lore does change. I think the earliest descriptions I remember are from the second edition core rulebooks. There is said a full STC database is believed to have contained information on all known technology. But it may not have. I mean, a lot of what we're told about the dark age of technology is sort of the mythology that the current Imperium believes about it. So yeah, it may or may not have been everything. But an STC database was sent with colonists so that they could make what they needed to colonize a world. The stuff that survived into M41 is generally stuff that was used a LOT, so there were a lot of copies made. It mentioned that the more high tech stuff it could make (like fission reactors) weren't as common, so the plans for them didn't survive.

So, one of the more high tech things they could make is a fission reactor. Something we had the technology to make 75 years ago. And which did not survive into the 41st millennium, as its STC plans were lost.

Colonizing was dangerous, so evidently colonists made use of tanks, and also lots of more mundane stuff that obviously wouldn't appear on a battlefield.

Yep an STC and STC database are different things.

And STC will create what you need with the resources you have on hand.

A STC database is the collected information of every STC and what it has created.

Which leads me to wonder, how did the STC make these things, was it some sort of super "replicator" a 3D printer, a factory that needed setting up, its something I have wondered for a while.

I think it was basically just a computer with an AI. You told it what materials you had available and what you needed, it and told you how to make something that fit your needs. These "plans" it outputted are what survived into the 41st millennium, not any of the actual computers. But I'm sure there must have been some kind of tools and manufacturing machinery brought with when colonizing a world so they could actually make the stuff, and probably a lot of that was automated to work with the STC computer. But still, if they hadn't needed to made copies of the plans somehow, they wouldn't still be around. The computers themselves used AI and would have been eliminated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be honest, I'm not sure where the idea came from that the STC machine could design a solution to things. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere legit, but can't remember where. Maybe it just had information and the people back then were smart enough to think for themselves and come up with their own designs.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I think it was basically just a computer with an AI. You told it what materials you had available and what you needed, it and told you how to make something that fit your needs. These "plans" it outputted are what survived into the 41st millennium, not any of the actual computers. But I'm sure there must have been some kind of tools and manufacturing machinery brought with when colonizing a world so they could actually make the stuff, and probably a lot of that was automated to work with the STC computer. But still, if they hadn't needed to made copies of the plans somehow, they wouldn't still be around. The computers themselves used AI and would have been eliminated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be honest, I'm not sure where the idea came from that the STC machine could design a solution to things. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere legit, but can't remember where. Maybe it just had information and the people back then were smart enough to think for themselves and come up with their own designs.

It does cut down on the skilled technical knowledge needed to make a colony or run industry, if you can just send any tom, dick or harry out to start a colony and not need to send any engineers, well... thats pretty damn efficient, it also goes a little way to explain how some societies fell so hard during old night, they perhaps didnt have the technical knowledge to maintain what they had, as the STC did it for them, I have a car, but have no idea how to build it and only basic knowledge on how to maintain it, now imagine their are no engineers around and only my computer knows how to maintain and create it, that breaks, now I can only keep it going as long as I can, when it breaks, its gone and no one knows how to make a new one, eventually there are no cars left, now apply that to more advanced tech!

I don't. If each and every single colony had an stc that created ALL tech ever invented in the golden age and produced these miracle things for absolutely every colony I begin to question the the long night. By this time I'd assume each colony can 'create and delete stars' on whim with tach already produced and shouldn't have ever worried about the predations of xenos even though each colony got isolated. Yes there was the big war against ai that humans won. Did they just simply take their already built weapons that won that war and toss em all into stars and black holes.

Or....not all STCs created absolutely everything invented by mankind and measure of control was maintained to ensure miracle military tech was kept out of wrong hands (doesn't need to succeed but a society would attempt to keep a padlock on their weaponry , especially if it created and deleted stars..hilarious proposition as it is).

Or.....golden age tech wasn't as good as the legends millenia later made them out to be. To some posters apparently finding one means all xenos will lose after. Well the golden age had much much more then one. Xenos haven't lost yet and were apparently so successful at preying on humanity that a xenophobic culture grew from it that has gone on for over 10 millenia after the fact.

Just out of interest, what if who ever found the stc didnt hand it in, like the blood angels and the TL-assault cannons

They'd be able to build the complete range of farming tool contained within and weld on guns to whichever surface can take em.

Rybrook wrote:
Just out of interest, what if who ever found the stc didnt hand it in, like the blood angels and the TL-assault cannons

The answer you’re looking for is heresy. All the heresy.

Rybrook wrote:
Just out of interest, what if who ever found the stc didnt hand it in, like the blood angels and the TL-assault cannons

That has happened, Short story where they send an imperial diplomat and an assassin to get a planet to join the imperium (40k timeline), this planet has some pretty damn good assassins of its own but the imperial one wins the little scuffle, so the planet joins the imperium, the whole scuffle was a ruse however, to distract away from the fact that the planet had a small STC database, they considered it holy so never saw what was on it or tried to use it.

 Formosa wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:
So i assuming the Imperium doesn't tear itself a part ....

There's where you're going wrong. The Imperium can not have good things, finding an STC would inevitably be worse than if it had never been found.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

Exactly. If Rhinos/LRBTs/etc exist then what are they classified as? Having a Baneblade designated a "light tank" makes no sense when you have a bunch of other tanks that are much smaller. The obvious conclusion is that the "light tank" label is mistaken, either as a translation mistake in the records (it really means "laser tank", etc) or as some kind of funding scam where the engineers wanted to build one and sold it to management as a practical "light tank" project instead of the land-battleship it actually was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
The rhino was a farm vehicle for colonists.

Then STC designs are a joke, as is the idea that finding a complete one would be some kind of miracle. The Rhino is incredibly poorly designed as a farm vehicle, and very clearly intended to be an APC. So either it's actually a tank and the "farm vehicle" designation is a mistake, or STC designs are terrible engineering and not worth having.

Nope it all makes sense

A baneblade is a Light TANK, as in a light main battle tank.

The Rhino was a farm vehicle the RH'1NO, NOT an APC which it was later converted into by the Imperium, the original farm variant likely has you know... agriculture equipment, either way it doesnt detract from the FACT that these vehicles are still excellent in the 41st millenium, but run of the mill colony fodder in the dark age.

The Rhino wasn't a piece of farm equipment. It was a low tech armored vehicle designed for exploration and security on hardscrabble colony worlds. The Baneblade is also likely a result of lower tech STC vehicles designed to meet colonial needs.


The Land Raider (Mk.1 Proteus) was designed as an armed exploration vehicle during the early centuries of the DAoT. That makes the Mk.1 Land Raider one of the oldest vehicle in use by the Imperium of Man.

 jhe90 wrote:


Maybe not acraftowold but hit a hard to hit enemy eldar warship. In a storm. It dodged with a farseer prediction.

Ark had none of it, fired a Crono canno, moved it backwards and put it back in line of thr black hole cannon...

Like out trolled a space troll!

It didn't teleport it backwards to put it in line with a black hole cannon. It's moved in a nanosecond (or some such) back in time so that it overlapped itself in a fundamentally untenable way.

The Eldar warship wasn't entirely destroyed from what I recall. Just crippled.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I don't. If each and every single colony had an stc that created ALL tech ever invented in the golden age and produced these miracle things for absolutely every colony I begin to question the the long night. By this time I'd assume each colony can 'create and delete stars' on whim with tach already produced and shouldn't have ever worried about the predations of xenos even though each colony got isolated. Yes there was the big war against ai that humans won. Did they just simply take their already built weapons that won that war and toss em all into stars and black holes.

Or....not all STCs created absolutely everything invented by mankind and measure of control was maintained to ensure miracle military tech was kept out of wrong hands (doesn't need to succeed but a society would attempt to keep a padlock on their weaponry , especially if it created and deleted stars..hilarious proposition as it is).

Or.....golden age tech wasn't as good as the legends millenia later made them out to be. To some posters apparently finding one means all xenos will lose after. Well the golden age had much much more then one. Xenos haven't lost yet and were apparently so successful at preying on humanity that a xenophobic culture grew from it that has gone on for over 10 millenia after the fact.

The implication is that the Men of Iron crippled their ability to use, manufacture or have access to such technology.

To be honest without AI the STC repository, while incredibly valuable, may not grant them access to the full technology of DaoT man.

DAoT man was beating any hostile xenos it encountered other than the Eldar and they were also vastly more powerful than they are in 40K (and conveniently isolationist). The Orks survived as a species but it's not indicated that they were a threat. The Necrons were almost all asleep, the Tyranids weren't around and the Tau would've been a complete non-factor. Even if most STC's had restricted technologhy a full database would presumably include the most potent military technology avaiable. Xenos were only successful against man after the Men of Iron rebellion and the Psyker boom crippling them further.

 John Prins wrote:
I think people overestimate STC technology. STC designed the current imperial navy warships, landraiders, and similar. Those are basically peak technologies.

The IoM would be better able to adapt and create new vehicles, but they're not getting miracle tech, they're not getting Necron 'alter reality' tech.

No they are not. Most of what the Imperium managed to recover were printouts of older and/or simple, easy to maintain systems prevalent on colony worlds. Colonies that had no real need or want for the more advanced technologies common on the ancient federation's developed worlds. And on top of that, the Imperium (Mechanicus) would add their own touches to production equipment, either due to study of xenos technology during the Great Crusade or incomplete STC data.

If they lost their tech the moment the men of iron turned on them how did they win against them? Sticks and stones. Clearly not only did they not put AI into everything they made but they must've had plenty of weapons, vehicle, and spaceships under their control in order to combat them. The fight was costly no doubt. Well, yeah, I can see them no longer able to produce anymore if their STCs were AI also and turned on them. Which puts the search for them rather moot as the STCs would be deadly enemies to mankind. If the STCS themselves aren't AI and didn't turn AND if every STC has designs for machines that remake the galaxy I again wonder how even individual isolated colonies could ever worry about aggressive xenos. I truly believe those STCs are just another thing that's been couched in legend and religious dogma over inflating their capabilities.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
If they lost their tech the moment the men of iron turned on them how did they win against them? Sticks and stones. Clearly not only did they not put AI into everything they made but they must've had plenty of weapons, vehicle, and spaceships under their control in order to combat them. The fight was costly no doubt. Well, yeah, I can see them no longer able to produce anymore if their STCs were AI also and turned on them. Which puts the search for them rather moot as the STCs would be deadly enemies to mankind. If the STCS themselves aren't AI and didn't turn AND if every STC has designs for machines that remake the galaxy I again wonder how even individual isolated colonies could ever worry about aggressive xenos. I truly believe those STCs are just another thing that's been couched in legend and religious dogma over inflating their capabilities.

Humans fought the machines with similar technology. Robots didn't do all of the warfighting if Man was still producing advanced weapons for his own use.



STC data units can indeed be corrupted by bad "scrap code" left over from the Cybernetic Revolt. That's one reason why the Mechanicus, and Imperium in general, don't want any average Joe Blow monkeying around with them. And why ancient hardcopies ("printouts") are preferable.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:
So i assuming the Imperium doesn't tear itself a part ....

There's where you're going wrong. The Imperium can not have good things, finding an STC would inevitably be worse than if it had never been found.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

Exactly. If Rhinos/LRBTs/etc exist then what are they classified as? Having a Baneblade designated a "light tank" makes no sense when you have a bunch of other tanks that are much smaller. The obvious conclusion is that the "light tank" label is mistaken, either as a translation mistake in the records (it really means "laser tank", etc) or as some kind of funding scam where the engineers wanted to build one and sold it to management as a practical "light tank" project instead of the land-battleship it actually was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
The rhino was a farm vehicle for colonists.

Then STC designs are a joke, as is the idea that finding a complete one would be some kind of miracle. The Rhino is incredibly poorly designed as a farm vehicle, and very clearly intended to be an APC. So either it's actually a tank and the "farm vehicle" designation is a mistake, or STC designs are terrible engineering and not worth having.

Nope it all makes sense

A baneblade is a Light TANK, as in a light main battle tank.

The Rhino was a farm vehicle the RH'1NO, NOT an APC which it was later converted into by the Imperium, the original farm variant likely has you know... agriculture equipment, either way it doesnt detract from the FACT that these vehicles are still excellent in the 41st millenium, but run of the mill colony fodder in the dark age.

The Rhino wasn't a piece of farm equipment. It was a low tech armored vehicle designed for exploration and security on hardscrabble colony worlds. The Baneblade is also likely a result of lower tech STC vehicles designed to meet colonial needs.


The Land Raider (Mk.1 Proteus) was designed as an armed exploration vehicle during the early centuries of the DAoT. That makes the Mk.1 Land Raider one of the oldest vehicle in use by the Imperium of Man.

It was both, a ubiquitous vehicle that would fit any need for colonists, it could be refited on the fly to suit whatever needs they have, and it's that that makes it such a good APC/IFV in 40k, ease of maintenance, ability to adjust it as and when needed, it's just a that the imperium is unwilling to experiment with it, tech heresy and all that.

I'm pretty sure it ends with a repeat of the prior incident with the Men of Iron.

You can argue til your fingers turn blue about whether the Rhino is a tractor or an APC. The Men of Iron damned near wiped out humanity last time around when humanity knew what it was doing with that tech.

Rinse and repeat.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm pretty sure it ends with a repeat of the prior incident with the Men of Iron.

You can argue til your fingers turn blue about whether the Rhino is a tractor or an APC. The Men of Iron damned near wiped out humanity last time around when humanity knew what it was doing with that tech.

Rinse and repeat.

This is an interesting take. Was the AI in STC more tame and regulated? Could it really get out of hand that easily?

 Aetare wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm pretty sure it ends with a repeat of the prior incident with the Men of Iron.

You can argue til your fingers turn blue about whether the Rhino is a tractor or an APC. The Men of Iron damned near wiped out humanity last time around when humanity knew what it was doing with that tech.

Rinse and repeat.

This is an interesting take. Was the AI in STC more tame and regulated? Could it really get out of hand that easily?

If you want some really insane theory hammer, the Men of Iron were evolving, they created the men of stone and later the men of gold, AI that was indistinguishable from humans, not a lot of people remember this as its not in Lexicanum or any of the other Wiki sites, it was also up in the air who won the war with the men of iron, so conspiracy theory time, what if humans on several worlds are actually men of gold that dont even know they are A.I DUM DUM DUUUUUUMM.

Formosa wrote:

 Aetare wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm pretty sure it ends with a repeat of the prior incident with the Men of Iron.

You can argue til your fingers turn blue about whether the Rhino is a tractor or an APC. The Men of Iron damned near wiped out humanity last time around when humanity knew what it was doing with that tech.

Rinse and repeat.

This is an interesting take. Was the AI in STC more tame and regulated? Could it really get out of hand that easily?

If you want some really insane theory hammer, the Men of Iron were evolving, they created the men of stone and later the men of gold, AI that was indistinguishable from humans, not a lot of people remember this as its not in Lexicanum or any of the other Wiki sites, it was also up in the air who won the war with the men of iron, so conspiracy theory time, what if humans on several worlds are actually men of gold that dont even know they are A.I DUM DUM DUUUUUUMM.

This is from 40klore subreddit(so take it with a grain of salt) on the subject of men of iron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/50osb2/new_details_on_men_of_goldironstone/

So, we've got some new info regarding those creatures. The canonicity is dubious because its source is Laurie Golding's post on The First Expedition forums. Anyway, here's the quote

" Interesting note - from Alan Merrett's lips, the Golden Men were a genetically engineered master race, with selective breeding kind of like in 'Dune'. The Iron Men were, obviously, machines. The stone in Stone Men refers to silicon, as in they are organic intelligence, created artificially. I like to think of them like the Thirteenth Tribe from 'Battlestar Galactica', the organic cylons who left Kobol and began their own civilisation."

Also this:

"Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):

'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them."

Now thats interesting. If we get super conspiratorial, who's a man who likes gold a lot and seems superior to humans in many ways, while having a shady background? If you can create new species of humans then implanting one with false memories doesn't seem that hard while some vague legends about reincarnating shamans could have come from anywhere. "DUN DUN DUUUUN-ing intensifies"

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:

Formosa wrote:

 Aetare wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm pretty sure it ends with a repeat of the prior incident with the Men of Iron.

You can argue til your fingers turn blue about whether the Rhino is a tractor or an APC. The Men of Iron damned near wiped out humanity last time around when humanity knew what it was doing with that tech.

Rinse and repeat.

This is an interesting take. Was the AI in STC more tame and regulated? Could it really get out of hand that easily?

If you want some really insane theory hammer, the Men of Iron were evolving, they created the men of stone and later the men of gold, AI that was indistinguishable from humans, not a lot of people remember this as its not in Lexicanum or any of the other Wiki sites, it was also up in the air who won the war with the men of iron, so conspiracy theory time, what if humans on several worlds are actually men of gold that dont even know they are A.I DUM DUM DUUUUUUMM.

This is from 40klore subreddit(so take it with a grain of salt) on the subject of men of iron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/50osb2/new_details_on_men_of_goldironstone/

So, we've got some new info regarding those creatures. The canonicity is dubious because its source is Laurie Golding's post on The First Expedition forums. Anyway, here's the quote

" Interesting note - from Alan Merrett's lips, the Golden Men were a genetically engineered master race, with selective breeding kind of like in 'Dune'. The Iron Men were, obviously, machines. The stone in Stone Men refers to silicon, as in they are organic intelligence, created artificially. I like to think of them like the Thirteenth Tribe from 'Battlestar Galactica', the organic cylons who left Kobol and began their own civilisation."

Also this:

"Interesting trivia, never before mentioned anywhere else (to my knowledge):

'The Beast Arises' originally dealt with the Imperium's use of the outlawed Iron Men as a last-ditch attempt to prevent the ork invasion from reaching Terra. It was changed because there are no miniatures of them."

Now thats interesting. If we get super conspiratorial, who's a man who likes gold a lot and seems superior to humans in many ways, while having a shady background? If you can create new species of humans then implanting one with false memories doesn't seem that hard while some vague legends about reincarnating shamans could have come from anywhere. "DUN DUN DUUUUN-ing intensifies"

Ah so i got the order slightly wrong, but its still pretty cool to think about.