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Alendrel wrote:

Slashy McTalons wrote:
wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.

Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.

There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?

 Anpu-adom wrote:

Alendrel wrote:

Slashy McTalons wrote:
wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.

Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.

There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?

The Stratagem lets them fight again.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.

I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"

For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.

The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking.

A Canoptek Harvest list pretty immediately comes to mind; Nephrekh wraiths are going to be nasty with their 18+2d6" threat range.

Novokh Flayed ones with a Novokh overlord would be pretty nasty too.
I think I like the Immortal Pride trait the most though. It gives DtW and it makes nearby units immune to morale, making it great for warrior blocks.

I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

Alendrel wrote:

Slashy McTalons wrote:
wtf is a 'first attack'? Does this mean you ignores invuns with only 1 of its attacks? Seems like very clumsy wording - why not just say 'roll one of its attacks separately- this attack ignores invuns'. If you can ignore invuns with all attacks, it's stupidly good, to the point where I guess it must be meant for only 1 single attack. But the fact that there's a stratagem to fight again makes this a bit unclear.

Per rules you roll each attack one at a time, batch rolling is a convience per the Fast Rolling sidebar.

There is a stratagem that allows a unit to attack again during the combat phase. Some sort of anti-abuse clause on that?

Yeah there is. You can only use a strategem once per phase.

I very much doubt gw gave him permission to do a beta codex but not yhe big channels.

mhalko1 wrote:

Yeah there is. You can only use a strategem once per phase.

And it's <Novokh> only.

drakerocket wrote:
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.

You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?

 Irbis wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.

You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?

Considering that conscripts are half the price of guardians and a third of necrons...yea...it was still a problem.

Good try though

Saw this on War of Sigmar. https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2793


https://imgur.com/a/lTMnl

 Irbis wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb.

You know, it's kinda funny, morale mitigation on paper-thin models with flashlight barely capable of hitting a barn was supposedly that game killing OP rule, but as soon as Eldar and Necrons get it, complete with application to a far more dangerous and durable units, it's suddenly no longer a problem. Did the faux baseless outrage finally kicked the bucket?

Because that was exactly the problem? Morale was meant to punish hordes of cheap units, not elite models (3ppm Conscript vs 11/12 Necron Warriors). And Eldar are one of the armies alongside Daemons and Orks that suffers the bigger casualties for morale in the game.

And I love the hyperbole of making cheap units with bad stats look bad in a competitive sense ignoring how mathemathically efficient they where by the virtue of being weak stat-wise but sooo cheap point-wise.

More and more I'm liking the CCB with the lightning field relic. Removes the one weakness of a CCB by giving an invul and gives the bonuses of the CCB. I think that will see action soon.

Several things:
Ghost arks repair multiple units, but can multiple arks repair onto one unit?

Let's say I choose Nemesor Zan as my warlord, I MUST take the hyprelogical strategist warlord trait due to sautekh? I am unable to pick anything else otherwise? Same goes for taking a regular sautekh overlord? I'd have to go 'choose your own dynasty adventure' to get Immortal Pride?

I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units. For example, I play Dark Eldar and I have 3 troops to choose from Kabalites, Wyches and Wracks.

1) Kabalites Squad leader can take various CC weapons along with ranged weapons. I have the option to take enough Kabalites to make a 20 man squad, along with the options of special weapons and heavy weapons.

2) Wych Squad Leader can also change out her ranged weapon and Close Combat weapons. The squad can be 5-20 once again, with a big benefit of 3 special weapons in a 10+ model squad.

3) Wracks can only be 5-10, but at the very least, they have the option of taking Liquifiers or Ossefactors and their squad leader can also change around their weapon loadout.

In comparison, Necrons have Warriors and Immortals. Warriors have no customization loadouts and Immortals can switch weapons but cannot mix and match. The very core of the army is very stagnant.

Where I see the Necron Codex shining though is from it's HQ options and new nasty little tricks in terms of deployment and movement. I saw this mentioned on Reddit, but the stratagem to drop off two units from a Night Scythe? NASTY. Imagine two Full squads of Destroyers being deployed within half range, giving them a further -1AP from their Code, or a full squad with a Destroyer Lord. With another HQ, My Will Be Done gives them a +1 to hit and they can already re-roll 1's to hit. That's a 2+ rerollable to hit, and reroll 1's to wound from the Destroyer Lord. What aren't they going to kill?

Tesla in general with MWBD is going to be just as nasty as my Lelith with Blood Dancer on Turn 3, generating 3+ hits on a 5+ to hit is incredible!

To do the math for you, Imagine a squad of 5 Tomb Blades, (Threat range of 14" movement + 12" Rapid fire btw) Tesla Carbines and MWBD on them. That's 20 shots, the +1 to hit from MWBD makes 2,3 and 4 normal hits. 20(1/2) is 10 hits. 5 and 6 generates 3 hits. 20(1/3)*3 = 20 hits.

From 20 shots, on average, you generate 30 Strength 5, (Ap -1 if you chose that code) Damage 1 shots that have all hit. against T4, that's 20 wounds. That's 6.66 or 10(AP-1) dead marines. Makes me weep that Reavers aren't that good. If you want further mathstuffs, I'll keep it in the necron tactics page.

But yeah, expect Fast Attack to be super full, especially when drunken commander missions are so popular in the meta.

Davor wrote:
Saw this on War of Sigmar. https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2793


https://imgur.com/a/lTMnl

Basically the entire codex. Granted, apparently this is "Beta" so it would be reasonable to expect that some it may change but that would probably be points more than anything else.

 Kurgash wrote:
Several things:
Ghost arks repair multiple units, but can multiple arks repair onto one unit?

Let's say I choose Nemesor Zan as my warlord, I MUST take the hyprelogical strategist warlord trait due to sautekh? I am unable to pick anything else otherwise? Same goes for taking a regular sautekh overlord? I'd have to go 'choose your own dynasty adventure' to get Immortal Pride?

From the wording, no. It says you can make RP for any units within range of any friendly Ghost Arks, so you don't get to stack them.

I'm going to assume that the characters in this will follow the same rules as all other codexes and that named characters have set WL traits based upon their "legion". Probably that they will get forced into the Sautek one (which is still decent), but since there are so many Sautek characters, it's possible that they might be given different ones - guarantee though you won't be able to pick the trait for named characters.

All the Dynasties seem viable but 2 really stand out.

Mephrit gets the -1 armor saves at half range.


Sautekh essentially gets Tallarn doctrine, the best IG warlord trait of 5+ reclaim CP and a reroll, and the Cadian overlapping fields of fire strategem everyone gets+1 to hit after an unsaved wound is scored

I see a lot of mephrit armies taking a Sautekh warlord.

The real tough choice is -1 armor saves at half range vs 2cp everyone gets +1 to hit a unit after it takes 1 unsaved wound which explodes gauss on a 5+ or 4+ with thy will be done

 Barrywise wrote:
I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.

Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.

I feel what could have fixed the blandness of this army would have been to bring back some of the crpytek disciplines like from before.

Also giving triarch units their own dynasty rules that worked on other units, showing their authority would have been cool.

Aaaaaaand maybe bringing back pariahs....one day

Ah, its all a pipe dream

Why do GW have so much trouble making Triarch Praetorians worth taking?

Why don't they just make them Paladins to the Lychguards terminators?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Barrywise wrote:
I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.

Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.

Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.

People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.

They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?

Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?

Bring back Pariahs!

Jacob29 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Barrywise wrote:
I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.

Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.

Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.

People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.

They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?

Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?

Bring back Pariahs!

Nope they are not a SLOW RACE. Their infantry walks slowly and that's it. Always grinds my gears (pun not intended) when people say Necrons or Death in AoS are slow races. Yes Necron warriors, Immortals, lychguard and characters walk slowly, the rest is quite fast and before everyone and their mother got deepstrike options Necrons had the edge in teleporting too. Necrons are not death guard, as befitting the most technologically advanced race in the game they have plenty of options to be fast.

Edit: But I completely agree about Pariahs, awesome idea and would be cool to see how they could be made unique from Lychguard. I don't know, maybe make them a crazy experiment by a cryptek trying to perfect new Lychguard/ infuse necrodermis with a soul?

In the Index, the ability of a Necron army to destroy tanks was rather low.
Hello Necron Warriors, in former editions four glancing hits were sufficient to destroy a LR.
But this was far from being possible with the Index, or did the Necrons get new abilities in the tank department?

Aren73 wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Barrywise wrote:
I think what people might mean when they say "bland" is the lack of customization options for units.

Our infantry having wholly uniform weapon loadouts is the point; the idea is that we can't mix and match but in exchange our bread and butter gun is just better than everyone else's. If you want to put a lascannon in an infantry squad you're looking at the wrong army.

Yeah I thought this was kinda the point of Necrons.

People complaining that GW haven't made them fast. Why would they be fast? They are the SLOW RACE. They have low range guns and a mechanic to brign them back as they walk towards you with impending doom.

They don't have weapon options? When did they have weapon options?

Granted there are some things that would be nice. More unique special rules, a really funky reanimation protocol, a more unique monolith (although it is pretty cool imo anyway), and well.. what else?

Bring back Pariahs!

Nope they are not a SLOW RACE. Their infantry walks slowly and that's it. Always grinds my gears (pun not intended) when people say Necrons or Death in AoS are slow races. Yes Necron warriors, Immortals, lychguard and characters walk slowly, the rest is quite fast and before everyone and their mother got deepstrike options Necrons had the edge in teleporting too. Necrons are not death guard, as befitting the most technologically advanced race in the game they have plenty of options to be fast.

Edit: But I completely agree about Pariahs, awesome idea and would be cool to see how they could be made unique from Lychguard. I don't know, maybe make them a crazy experiment by a cryptek trying to perfect new Lychguard/ infuse necrodermis with a soul?

I would class that as a slow race... if your entire infantry line is a slow moving, low range machine.

Sure destroyers, wraiths and spiders were faster, but they aren't exactly beating any land records and lore wise are usually scouting or support units, not the main force.

Monolith is slow. All infantry units are slow.

Yes they have teleporting.. and then they walk slowly from the teleport zone. They are alpha strike into slow moving screens. Not speedy Eldar jetbikes

 Sim-Life wrote:
I didn't say "bland" but I can see what people are saying.

I'm not seeing any combos of models that make me go "Yeah, I'd love to write a list around that!"

For example, I have a nid list comprised as much as I can of both flying and burrowing models because I like the idea, one comprised of putting as many spore mines as I can into play and the classic Nidzilla where no model has less than 3 wounds. For my daemons I have one with all the non-Greater Daemon characters, one with a focus on mounted models, one based around a bloodthirster with two daemon prince companions.

The necrons I'm struggling to come up with "concepts" I guess. I think a boat list might be cool with lots of barges and arcs. Theres the classic alien invasion list I guess? Maybe stuff will jump out at me later but right now nothing is clicking. I don't like my lists to be "take X amount of a unit, add other units to taste". I like them to feel like they have a reason to exist.

Personally, I'm building a Bone Kingdom of Drazak army using the Novokh stuff. Mostly loads and loads of Flayed Ones and Destroyers. It's basically Horror Movie Necrons. I think this is going to work out well for me.

We feel only hatred and a hunger that can never be assuaged. Mwhahaha


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
In the Index, the ability of a Necron army to destroy tanks was rather low.
Hello Necron Warriors, in former editions four glancing hits were sufficient to destroy a LR.
But this was far from being possible with the Index, or did the Necrons get new abilities in the tank department?

There is no point in this ability in 8th, since there is no difference between vehicles and monstrous critters. The old rule was a way to represent them ignoring armor.

Just looking at things, Mephrit warriors and immortals should do pretty well at killing big things (not "vehicles") en masse. Destroyers look really good. The Doomsday Cannon has probably the best profile in the game (it's a Pulse Driver Cannon with AP 5).

Jacob29 wrote:


Yes they have teleporting.. and then they walk slowly from the teleport zone. They are alpha strike into slow moving screens. Not speedy Eldar jetbikes

Well, Necrons do have speedy jetbikes (probably not as speedy as Eldar ones, but still....)

Can Eldar take Jetbikes as troops these days? I do not have an Eldar codex and do not pay them much attention, but special abilities to take X as troops are a lot rarer these days. Of course you can take detachments that give you more FA slots instead, but that option is open to any army...

With Wraiths, Scarabs, 2 kinds of aircraft, Destroyers, Praetorians, Tomb Blades, Barges and a Cryptek surfing on a jet-scarab I think a mobility-themed Necron army is at least a possibility

To me it is starting to look like all the flavour is in the special characters and dynasty traits.

I noticed Vargard Obyron can deepstrike himself and another unit to within 1" of an enemy unit. I don't know many of the codex inside out but this seems to break the trend of 9"?

Vim

drakerocket wrote:
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.

You could always spend 2 CP to auto-pass morale.

 vim_the_good wrote:
To me it is starting to look like all the flavour is in the special characters and dynasty traits.

I noticed Vargard Obyron can deepstrike himself and another unit to within 1" of an enemy unit. I don't know many of the codex inside out but this seems to break the trend of 9"?

Vim

Nightscythe Invasion Beams do the same

 D6Damager wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
I think immortal pride is probably the biggest game changer there. Morale was a big problem for big blocks of warriors and having morale immunity makes 2 x 20 blocks of warriors are great core for an army to build from, backed up by the new relic Resurrection orb. Previously, opponents had to only kill 15 dudes to circumvent reanimation protocols.

You could always spend 2 CP to auto-pass morale.

for just 1 unit. I'd rather save that cp for something useful and just stick a dude within 6" of the warlord and not worry about it.

So where does all this leave the warriors vs immortals situation?