Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Triarch Praetorians are surprisingly good if your metric is trash, which they're not. I don't think you'll ever take them because they're the best unit in your meta for the pts, but they have cool models and rules, just not so cool pts. I think Lychguard are about as good as TPs, because they can get by with a Cryptek instead of Szeras and they get Dynasties. But their movement is way less fun and suffering from morale is gak, but I suppose you wouldn't care about that with a unit of 5. It makes limited sense to take a unit of 5 Lychguard with shields because you won't ever have a good place to use the +1 invul strat I don't think. If your army has other things that your opponent wants to shoot then Lychguard seem a lot better, if you have DDAs eating up D2 weapons and Scarabs eating infantry weapons, then you're left with D6 damage weapons and if you have a Cryptek then it's not too terrible. Take Wraiths or Scarabs if you want to be competitive. Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs are really amazing.

I have 5 games with TPs, 2 with Shieldguard and 1 with Scytheguard pre-codex, 3, 0, and 4 games post-codex for TPs, Shieldguard and Scytheguard respectively, they can be very fun to play just don't expect them to win you any tournament games. Voidblade/Particle caster is always the correct choice for Triarch Praetorians. I'm still vary of the shields after playing them a couple of times when they were 37 pts, which was Monolith-tier bad, but maybe they're the better choice with the new strat. I still feel like shields should be cheaper than warscythes, remember, every time you spend a CP on shieldguard to make them tougher you could have made your scytheguard deadlier instead. I'd put Anrakyr in any army featuring TPs or LG, for +1 A obviously, but also for TPs because he's the only one who can MWBD them, for LG because he can MWBD Novokh or Nephrekh LG or the Immortals in your Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion. His ability should just work for Immortals IMO, he's kind of a must-take in melee armies that don't focus on C'tan or Canoptek units.

 nintura wrote:
So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit...

You don't get +1 to hit while shooting Overwatch. Read the core rules another time buddy, they're not that long this edition. I need to get my act together and thoroughly read all the codices and FAQ as well.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I know the overwatch shot misses. But does the Tesla still trigger. Which with your quote, it says it does. That's what I wanted to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:

 nintura wrote:
So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit...

You don't get +1 to hit while shooting Overwatch. Read the core rules another time buddy, they're not that long this edition. I need to get my act together and thoroughly read all the codices and FAQ as well.

MWBD gives +1 to hit until your next turn, which happens in your opponents turn if they charge you.

*EDIT: Ok, it gives +1 to hit rolls. Overwatch still says unmodified hit roll. So it's still a hit roll. You'd miss with overwatch but still trigger Tesla for the 2 free hits.

Are Death Marks secretly good? I've been playing with them alot in a Mephrit army and I'd like to make a case for them being at least underrated.

Mobile screen with mortal wound output.

I run a very mobile army with a deciver and VoD. DS units like flyrants, Bloodletter bomb, Buffed BA capt etc can be intercepted you can shoot in opponents turn, use Mephrit strat for 6s causing additional rolls with -1 on the regular wounds. I feel this shooting and MW output in your opponents turn is really underrated. In addition, you can screen target units adding charge distance or putting a unit completely out of reach of your opponent.

Another option is intercepting an enemy unit, putting them in cover by an objective and forcing your opponent to deal with them as a very mobile distraction carnefex. They also have RP which adds to their resilience with the +1 for being in cover.

Doctoralex wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Again.

Not asking about overwatch. Yes, I realize overwatch misses. I'm asking about the Tesla check and trigger. It goes in 3 phases.

Unmodified Roll: Overwatch see's a 5. it misses.

Add modifiers: +1 to hit, makes your 5 a 6

Tesla Checks: Tesla see's a 6 was rolled. Trigger Tesla.

General Handbook:

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll,irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

Maybe someone else help explain it. Overwatch ignores any modifiers you have. You don't add or remove hit modifiers. You roll to hit and any 6's are hits. Any effects on those 6's (like Tesla) happen as normal.
Else a unit of Tomb Blades could charge an enemy unit and be immune to overwatch, thanks to their -1 to hit.

Seems he understands just fine? Isn't he saying again and again that the overwatch misses? No need knocking down an open door.

He's asking about the tesla proc. Nothing in tesla rule says the shot must be a successfull hit roll. That's only for the overwtach hit and thats a miss, everybody agrees with you there.


nintura: Read the Tesla rule carefully, nowhere does it say that you get two additional hits (in those words).

Thank you!

 nintura wrote:
Thank you!

Np, however as you can see from the Tesla rule it says on a 6+ (abd yes, not on a succesfull hit!), it causes 3 hits instead of 1.

This is clearly different from saying "it grants two extra hits" (eventhough that is often the result)

This is a problem however, as it can't really cause 3 hits instead of 1, if there isn't a 1 hit in the first place (which there isn't on a 5+ in overwatch)

 vict0988 wrote:
Triarch Praetorians are surprisingly good if your metric is trash, which they're not. I don't think you'll ever take them because they're the best unit in your meta for the pts, but they have cool models and rules, just not so cool pts. I think Lychguard are about as good as TPs, because they can get by with a Cryptek instead of Szeras and they get Dynasties. But their movement is way less fun and suffering from morale is gak, but I suppose you wouldn't care about that with a unit of 5. It makes limited sense to take a unit of 5 Lychguard with shields because you won't ever have a good place to use the +1 invul strat I don't think. If your army has other things that your opponent wants to shoot then Lychguard seem a lot better, if you have DDAs eating up D2 weapons and Scarabs eating infantry weapons, then you're left with D6 damage weapons and if you have a Cryptek then it's not too terrible. Take Wraiths or Scarabs if you want to be competitive. Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs are really amazing.

I have 5 games with TPs, 2 with Shieldguard and 1 with Scytheguard pre-codex, 3, 0, and 4 games post-codex for TPs, Shieldguard and Scytheguard respectively, they can be very fun to play just don't expect them to win you any tournament games. Voidblade/Particle caster is always the correct choice for Triarch Praetorians. I'm still vary of the shields after playing them a couple of times when they were 37 pts, which was Monolith-tier bad, but maybe they're the better choice with the new strat. I still feel like shields should be cheaper than warscythes, remember, every time you spend a CP on shieldguard to make them tougher you could have made your scytheguard deadlier instead. I'd put Anrakyr in any army featuring TPs or LG, for +1 A obviously, but also for TPs because he's the only one who can MWBD them, for LG because he can MWBD Novokh or Nephrekh LG or the Immortals in your Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion. His ability should just work for Immortals IMO, he's kind of a must-take in melee armies that don't focus on C'tan or Canoptek units.

 nintura wrote:
So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit...

You don't get +1 to hit while shooting Overwatch. Read the core rules another time buddy, they're not that long this edition. I need to get my act together and thoroughly read all the codices and FAQ as well.

Have you examples of lists that have worked well, as I always find it hard to get LG into CC with a supporting HQ and especially TP as they move 10” I would be really interested in hearing how you over came these problems

Doctoralex wrote:

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll,irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

This doesn't say anything about Overwatch ignoring modifiers. It says a 6 is always a hit.

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, scarabs move in front of wraith. They take the smites, wraith move over them, and attack whatever there is.

I've yet to have a game where scarabs screened and survived past turn 1.

Screens aren't supposed to survive deep into the game, man. They're supposed to soak up the damage that would otherwise be going to your more valuable units. Any damage your Scarabs actually do is just gravy. There is this weird mentality in the 40k community that if a unit doesn't kill its own value in other units, that unit has failed. Not everything is meant to be an offensive powerhouse.

GEEEEZ.
I'm not dumb :p
You say scarabs screen off smites from wraiths. I say wraiths die to smite because scarabs die turn 1 and there's nothing to screen the wraiths anymore for turn 2,3... because the wraiths are the only real melee unit we have.

Hey Guys!

I will face a 2700 pts DeathGuard/Nugle Daemons army this weekend. He brings A LOT of bodies (poxwalker/cultists/marines)

What do you think about this list?
Im thinking about ditching the blades and get another warrior screen within the nephrek outrider instead. but i guess both choices are quite comparable.



Its supposed to be a friendly, otherwise we wouldnt play that many points. My opponent will field a great unclean one, which i have still no idea how to defeat. Any hints?

cheers & have a good day

Tesla, overwatch and MWBD misses on a 5. You don't even get two additional hits. Tesla says 3 hits instead of 1 on a hit roll of 6+. But you only hit on natural 6s on overwatch. The +1 from MWBD is ignored. You cant get 3 hits if you dont get the 1 hit. Tesla rule doesnt trigger because of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, scarabs move in front of wraith. They take the smites, wraith move over them, and attack whatever there is.

I've yet to have a game where scarabs screened and survived past turn 1.

Screens aren't supposed to survive deep into the game, man. They're supposed to soak up the damage that would otherwise be going to your more valuable units. Any damage your Scarabs actually do is just gravy. There is this weird mentality in the 40k community that if a unit doesn't kill its own value in other units, that unit has failed. Not everything is meant to be an offensive powerhouse.

GEEEEZ.
I'm not dumb :p
You say scarabs screen off smites from wraiths. I say wraiths die to smite because scarabs die turn 1 and there's nothing to screen the wraiths anymore for turn 2,3... because the wraiths are the only real melee unit we have.

Smiting comes before shooting. Your opponent smites the scarabs because they are the closest enemy unit or he does something else in his psychic phase.

Curious79 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
Triarch Praetorians are surprisingly good if your metric is trash, which they're not. I don't think you'll ever take them because they're the best unit in your meta for the pts, but they have cool models and rules, just not so cool pts. I think Lychguard are about as good as TPs, because they can get by with a Cryptek instead of Szeras and they get Dynasties. But their movement is way less fun and suffering from morale is gak, but I suppose you wouldn't care about that with a unit of 5. It makes limited sense to take a unit of 5 Lychguard with shields because you won't ever have a good place to use the +1 invul strat I don't think. If your army has other things that your opponent wants to shoot then Lychguard seem a lot better, if you have DDAs eating up D2 weapons and Scarabs eating infantry weapons, then you're left with D6 damage weapons and if you have a Cryptek then it's not too terrible. Take Wraiths or Scarabs if you want to be competitive. Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs are really amazing.

I have 5 games with TPs, 2 with Shieldguard and 1 with Scytheguard pre-codex, 3, 0, and 4 games post-codex for TPs, Shieldguard and Scytheguard respectively, they can be very fun to play just don't expect them to win you any tournament games. Voidblade/Particle caster is always the correct choice for Triarch Praetorians. I'm still vary of the shields after playing them a couple of times when they were 37 pts, which was Monolith-tier bad, but maybe they're the better choice with the new strat. I still feel like shields should be cheaper than warscythes, remember, every time you spend a CP on shieldguard to make them tougher you could have made your scytheguard deadlier instead. I'd put Anrakyr in any army featuring TPs or LG, for +1 A obviously, but also for TPs because he's the only one who can MWBD them, for LG because he can MWBD Novokh or Nephrekh LG or the Immortals in your Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion. His ability should just work for Immortals IMO, he's kind of a must-take in melee armies that don't focus on C'tan or Canoptek units.

 nintura wrote:
So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit...

You don't get +1 to hit while shooting Overwatch. Read the core rules another time buddy, they're not that long this edition. I need to get my act together and thoroughly read all the codices and FAQ as well.

Have you examples of lists that have worked well, as I always find it hard to get LG into CC with a supporting HQ and especially TP as they move 10” I would be really interested in hearing how you over came these problems

I have tested LG with warscythes and even had limited success with them. Zandrekh + Obyron solves their movement problem. Although thats a lot of points and unit is still very vulnerable to d2 shooting. In tournament i lost both games where LG unit was wiped before get their points back - by reapers and obliterators. Riptides is also a respective threat.

If I would write list now, it would look like this:



Scythes under MWBD, reroll 1s to wound, +1 str stratagem, double TP (cryptek teleports Zandrekh \ Zandrekh advances, Obyron with LG teleports on him) just slice through everything.
Still, wraiths are more competitive choice - Zandrekh is horribly overcosted model.

LG with shields are just bad. They are expensive and can't fight vehicles. Don't use them.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Curious79 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
Triarch Praetorians are surprisingly good if your metric is trash, which they're not. I don't think you'll ever take them because they're the best unit in your meta for the pts, but they have cool models and rules, just not so cool pts. I think Lychguard are about as good as TPs, because they can get by with a Cryptek instead of Szeras and they get Dynasties. But their movement is way less fun and suffering from morale is gak, but I suppose you wouldn't care about that with a unit of 5. It makes limited sense to take a unit of 5 Lychguard with shields because you won't ever have a good place to use the +1 invul strat I don't think. If your army has other things that your opponent wants to shoot then Lychguard seem a lot better, if you have DDAs eating up D2 weapons and Scarabs eating infantry weapons, then you're left with D6 damage weapons and if you have a Cryptek then it's not too terrible. Take Wraiths or Scarabs if you want to be competitive. Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs are really amazing.

I have 5 games with TPs, 2 with Shieldguard and 1 with Scytheguard pre-codex, 3, 0, and 4 games post-codex for TPs, Shieldguard and Scytheguard respectively, they can be very fun to play just don't expect them to win you any tournament games. Voidblade/Particle caster is always the correct choice for Triarch Praetorians. I'm still vary of the shields after playing them a couple of times when they were 37 pts, which was Monolith-tier bad, but maybe they're the better choice with the new strat. I still feel like shields should be cheaper than warscythes, remember, every time you spend a CP on shieldguard to make them tougher you could have made your scytheguard deadlier instead. I'd put Anrakyr in any army featuring TPs or LG, for +1 A obviously, but also for TPs because he's the only one who can MWBD them, for LG because he can MWBD Novokh or Nephrekh LG or the Immortals in your Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion. His ability should just work for Immortals IMO, he's kind of a must-take in melee armies that don't focus on C'tan or Canoptek units.

 nintura wrote:
So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit...

You don't get +1 to hit while shooting Overwatch. Read the core rules another time buddy, they're not that long this edition. I need to get my act together and thoroughly read all the codices and FAQ as well.

Have you examples of lists that have worked well, as I always find it hard to get LG into CC with a supporting HQ and especially TP as they move 10” I would be really interested in hearing how you over came these problems

I have tested LG with warscythes and even had limited success with them. Zandrekh + Obyron solves their movement problem. Although thats a lot of points and unit is still very vulnerable to d2 shooting. In tournament i lost both games where LG unit was wiped before get their points back - by reapers and obliterators. Riptides is also a respective threat.

If I would write list now, it would look like this:

Spoiler:

Sautekh +5 CP

HQ: Nemezor Zandrekh [180]
HQ: Vanguard Obyron [140]
Elites: 10x Lychguard with Warscythes [300]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]

Sautekh, Nephrekh +1 CP
HQ: Cryptek (70) - Staff of Light (10) [80] (Sautekh) Artefact: Veil of Darkness
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300] (Nephrekh)
Fast Attack: 4x Canoptek Scarabs [52] (Nephrekh)
Fast Attack: 4x Canoptek Scarabs [52] (Nephrekh)

Total: 2000
CP: 9

Scythes under MWBD, reroll 1s to wound, +1 str stratagem, double TP (cryptek teleports Zandrekh \ Zandrekh advances, Obyron with LG teleports on him) just slice through everything.
Still, wraiths are more competitive choice - Zandrekh is horribly overcosted model.

LG with shields are just bad. They are expensive and can't fight vehicles. Don't use them.

I don't have the codex here - can you veil a unit from a different dynasty?

No. Thats why Cryptek is Sautekh, while destroyers and scarabs are Nephrekh. If I don't miss anything, all units in that batalion won't have access to dynasty codes (sad scarabs), while you still able to use deep strike stratagem on destroyers.

-Sentinel- wrote:
No. Thats why Cryptek is Sautekh, while destroyers and scarabs are Nephrekh. If I don't miss anything, all units in that batalion won't have access to dynasty codes (sad scarabs), while you still able to use deep strike stratagem on destroyers.

Oh you can do that? Didn't know

-Sentinel- wrote:
No. Thats why Cryptek is Sautekh, while destroyers and scarabs are Nephrekh. If I don't miss anything, all units in that batalion won't have access to dynasty codes (sad scarabs), while you still able to use deep strike stratagem on destroyers.

I have toyed with this idea a few times. It can reduce HQ tax, or make a HQ from one detachment work with another. You can take a battalion where the Tesla Immortals are Sautekh for Methodical Destruction, the Destroyers are Nephrek for Translocation Crypt, and some Wraith are Nihilak for the +1 Sv Strat. Nothing gets code benefits but you get the strategems you want for the units that use them. I never found it gave me anything much better than "normal" lists but it's something to consider.

This is one I have used:

Outrider:

Cryptek (Sautekh- to support a battalion)

6x Destroyers (Nephrek- Trans Crypt)
3x Tesla Blades (Sautekh- can join in with Methodical Destruction)
3x Tesla Blades (Sautekh- as above)

None of those units lose anything from not having the Dynasty code.

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

Curious79 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
I have 5 games with TPs, 2 with Shieldguard and 1 with Scytheguard pre-codex, 3, 0, and 4 games post-codex for TPs, Shieldguard and Scytheguard respectively, they can be very fun to play just don't expect them to win you any tournament games.

Have you examples of lists that have worked well, as I always find it hard to get LG into CC with a supporting HQ and especially TP as they move 10” I would be really interested in hearing how you over came these problems

Pre-codex I did okay with LG-Deceiver combo for a turn 2 charge, but you'll be toast against many armies, if your opponent has enough chaff then your LG are going to be sad. They're pretty good at cutting down Primarchs though and perhabs that's part of why I had success with my elite melee units, because many of my opponents at the time were using those or otherwise plain bad armies, I was also facing a lot of generals who weren't very good when I was testing LG.

TPs is all about target saturation for your opponent's shooting and staying behind your chaff (Warriors/Scarabs/Wraiths) and jumping out in front. TPs can't be targeted for MWBD except by Anrakyr and can't benefit from Technomancer except from Szeras. Keep in mind that you don't measure vertical distance on charge anymore, that's a good reason to take TPs over LG. For all melee units you need to be meticulous in how you pile in and consolidate, maximize shooting denial while minimizing the Overwatch you have to suffer.

The times when Necrons are strongest is when facing a bad opponent who fails to respect RP and that goes for LG and TPs as well, if your opponent gets first turn, shoots down your chaff/shooting units and then turn 2 deletes your LG/TP units one at a time, then they won't be great. But if your opponent lets you make 40 RP rolls for your elite infantry units over the course of the game, then you'll probably do great. Playing on tables with enough terrain and with the ITC rules is a huge deal, hiding 2 or 3 models out of sight through a conga-line could allow you to RP for the entire unit. Post-codex I've just been losing a lot, but the one with which I had the most success is probably my Anrakyr/Szeras list which features a single unit of Triarch Praetorians.

Lychguard love having a Cryptek around to buff them up, especially Scytheguard. That 5++ can be all the difference.

That, and the RP buffs speak for themselves.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Lychguard love having a Cryptek around to buff them up, especially Scytheguard. That 5++ can be all the difference.

That, and the RP buffs speak for themselves.

I want Kutlakh to be able to solve their speed problem, but I realize it won't be that easy.

torblind wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Lychguard love having a Cryptek around to buff them up, especially Scytheguard. That 5++ can be all the difference.

That, and the RP buffs speak for themselves.

I want Kutlakh to be able to solve their speed problem, but I realize it won't be that easy.

I feel your pain. I love the look of Sword/Board Lychguard, they are my favorite models in the Necron range, but they are hard to get around. Only basic options are Night Scythe, Veil of Darkness, Deceiver, Monolith, or Kutlakh, all of which are either a relic, or expensive.

Which leads me to think VoD, and the Night Scythe are the best bets. Night Scythes are largely risk free. But VoD is the only one that gives you a chance at a turn 1 charge.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Spoiler:

 p5freak wrote:
Tesla, overwatch and MWBD misses on a 5. You don't even get two additional hits. Tesla says 3 hits instead of 1 on a hit roll of 6+. But you only hit on natural 6s on overwatch. The +1 from MWBD is ignored. You cant get 3 hits if you dont get the 1 hit. Tesla rule doesnt trigger because of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, scarabs move in front of wraith. They take the smites, wraith move over them, and attack whatever there is.

I've yet to have a game where scarabs screened and survived past turn 1.

Screens aren't supposed to survive deep into the game, man. They're supposed to soak up the damage that would otherwise be going to your more valuable units. Any damage your Scarabs actually do is just gravy. There is this weird mentality in the 40k community that if a unit doesn't kill its own value in other units, that unit has failed. Not everything is meant to be an offensive powerhouse.

GEEEEZ.
I'm not dumb :p
You say scarabs screen off smites from wraiths. I say wraiths die to smite because scarabs die turn 1 and there's nothing to screen the wraiths anymore for turn 2,3... because the wraiths are the only real melee unit we have.

Smiting comes before shooting. Your opponent smites the scarabs because they are the closest enemy unit or he does something else in his psychic phase.

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

As fast as Wraiths are (and assuming you're using the Novokh code, which you probably should be with Wraiths), there's no reason your Wraiths shouldn't be in charge range by turn 2. You could almost charge the length of a 6'x4' board by turn 2.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

I dont know Tsons, can they do 54 mortal wound smites in one turn ?

 p5freak wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

I dont know Tsons, can they do 54 mortal wound smites in one turn ?

I had a game where i lost most of 20-man warriors blob to smites and same magic turn 1. Since that i always have a unit of scarabs to intercept those turn 1.

Also bear in mind that 1 unit of wraits will lose invul save by a spell Tsons have. With 4+ they are east target.

One of our meta player tested max wraiths at team tournament. He went badly.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Also bear in mind that 1 unit of wraits will lose invul save by a spell Tsons have. With 4+ they are east target.

Death hex needs an 8 to manifest and it can only hit one unit of wraith. Instead of 3x6 wraith it would be better to run 6x3 wraiths. Which wouldnt work on tournaments because of the rule of 3.

 nintura wrote:
Here's a fun one that's blowing up my facebook feed.

If you fire Tesla in Overwatch but get a -1 to hit, what does rolling a 6 do?

I Might have been on the same thread lol. It will need to be FAQ'd but my thoughts are as follows.
Overwatch always hits on a 6+ regardless of any modifiers. I believe you would get 1 hit for overwatch, but not the benefit of the Tesla exploding 6's because the -1 would drop it ot 5.

Something like this would be the order of operations.
Roll your dice
Compare with Ballistic Skill Characteristic (6's)
If equal or greater, it’s a hit
If less than the Ballistic Skill Characteristic value, it’s a miss (1-5)
Gather up all dice that are misses and re-roll them – (Re-Roll Step if applicable)
Compare with Ballistic Skill Characteristic (6's)
Apply hits
Apply *Modifiers (Negative and Positive) – Modifier Step (6's become 5's)
If less than the Ballistic Skill Characteristic value, it’s a miss
Go on to Wounding Steps


On another note, this came up as well. Since Nihilak Stratgem is used at end of turn and not a phase, per pg 215 of BRB, you can play that stratagem more than once since its not part of a phase. So, say we we use it on lychguard twice, granting them 2 attacks and a 2++ invul save. Also could use on a 20 man squad of flayed ones with a Chronotek nearby. Use 2 times to give them a 2+/3++ with 100 attacks for a 20 man sq. Add Imotekh nearby for reroll 1's and MWBD and they are hitting on 2's.

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Spoiler:

 p5freak wrote:
Tesla, overwatch and MWBD misses on a 5. You don't even get two additional hits. Tesla says 3 hits instead of 1 on a hit roll of 6+. But you only hit on natural 6s on overwatch. The +1 from MWBD is ignored. You cant get 3 hits if you dont get the 1 hit. Tesla rule doesnt trigger because of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, scarabs move in front of wraith. They take the smites, wraith move over them, and attack whatever there is.

I've yet to have a game where scarabs screened and survived past turn 1.

Screens aren't supposed to survive deep into the game, man. They're supposed to soak up the damage that would otherwise be going to your more valuable units. Any damage your Scarabs actually do is just gravy. There is this weird mentality in the 40k community that if a unit doesn't kill its own value in other units, that unit has failed. Not everything is meant to be an offensive powerhouse.

GEEEEZ.
I'm not dumb :p
You say scarabs screen off smites from wraiths. I say wraiths die to smite because scarabs die turn 1 and there's nothing to screen the wraiths anymore for turn 2,3... because the wraiths are the only real melee unit we have.

Smiting comes before shooting. Your opponent smites the scarabs because they are the closest enemy unit or he does something else in his psychic phase.

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

As fast as Wraiths are (and assuming you're using the Novokh code, which you probably should be with Wraiths), there's no reason your Wraiths shouldn't be in charge range by turn 2. You could almost charge the length of a 6'x4' board by turn 2.

Yes.... But that means they will be in smite range, which hard counters them..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Yes. TURN ONE. Do all your games end on turn 1?

I dont know Tsons, can they do 54 mortal wound smites in one turn ?

It doesn't need to be 54 MW in a turn. Like someone said, deathhex with all the bonuses to cast it pretty reliable. The fact is that wraiths are really hardcountered by armies like this.

 Dynas wrote:

On another note, this came up as well. Since Nihilak Stratgem is used at end of turn and not a phase, per pg 215 of BRB, you can play that stratagem more than once since its not part of a phase. So, say we we use it on lychguard twice, granting them 2 attacks and a 2++ invul save. Also could use on a 20 man squad of flayed ones with a Chronotek nearby. Use 2 times to give them a 2+/3++ with 100 attacks for a 20 man sq. Add Imotekh nearby for reroll 1's and MWBD and they are hitting on 2's.

And if i were your opponent i would ignore your flayed ones, because you play it at the end of your turn. If i dont attack them your 4 CP are wasted. Unless its about an objective marker which is critical for the win.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:


Yes.... But that means they will be in smite range, which hard counters them..?

Why would you not charge them as soon as the Wraiths got in range to do so? Dead psykers can't cast Smite.

 EnTyme wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:


Yes.... But that means they will be in smite range, which hard counters them..?

Why would you not charge them as soon as the Wraiths got in range to do so? Dead psykers can't cast Smite.

1. You really overestimate their damage output(The psykers are usually daemon princes)
2. This means your opponent did not protect them with chaff/left them in range.