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2018/07/03 03:25:30
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
What stratagem is it? Why can't you just state why the fail ?
Devastating Reach: 1CP, used in the Charge phase when one of your Knight charges an enemy unit entirely in ruins and not on the ground floor. If you end your move within 2″ horizontally and 6″ vertically of the enemy unit you count as having completed the charge and you can swing at the enemy unit with non kick attacks.
This is not the exact wording, but describes what it does. I read it in the codex at my FLGS. The knight is no karate fighter, thats why he cant use his feet to attack a target which is on the first or second floor of a ruin, or other terrain.
2018/07/03 07:27:08
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In my games 3 knights shooting kills 2 DDA in cover per turn. Avenger gatling cannon is just to good against it.
Did you use the quantum shield stratagem ? Did you have a cloaktek which can repair DDAs ? Did you have a spyder which can repair DDAs ?
Yes i did. 3 Knights with avenger cannons and battlecannons with rerolls 1s to hit from Kalgar kills 2 DDA in cover, 1 of them under stratagem. Also that was pre last ETCFAQ, so i had to declare stratagem before he decides which cannon fires which of declared targets.
2018/07/03 07:40:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Two options above, So I will be facing a friendly 1850 round robin this week there is two boards one with little to no cover but some line of sight blocking and the other loads of both so tough for vehicles, potentially going up against ad Mec custodes assassins death guard Raven Guard Ultramarines and thousand sons finding difficult what to use the others pionts for to bring a rounded list I am thinking of dropping the 20 warriors for immortals my thinking is they are just going to veil in as a distraction I could drop storm L I really love his mortal wound storm and his two MWBD on the immortals is excellent any thoughts would be much appreciated
I vote the 2nd list if you aren't looking for direct tweaks. It doesn't have deathmarks, which are pretty bad.
My thinking with the deathmarks was purely mortal wounds out put and some deepstrike protection I am open to any tweaks that would help make it flexible and more potent against the varied opponents I will also be definitely facing Manus and possibly Robbie G I have never faced them before so any tactics against them would be much appreciated
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/03 08:39:06
2018/07/03 08:41:32
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In my games 3 knights shooting kills 2 DDA in cover per turn. Avenger gatling cannon is just to good against it.
Did you use the quantum shield stratagem ? Did you have a cloaktek which can repair DDAs ? Did you have a spyder which can repair DDAs ?
Yes i did. 3 Knights with avenger cannons and battlecannons with rerolls 1s to hit from Kalgar kills 2 DDA in cover, 1 of them under stratagem. Also that was pre last ETCFAQ, so i had to declare stratagem before he decides which cannon fires which of declared targets.
Are you sure it was Kalgar rerolling the 1s ?? He gives rerolls to friendly CHAPTER units. Knights aren't CHAPTER units.
2018/07/03 09:57:19
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In my games 3 knights shooting kills 2 DDA in cover per turn. Avenger gatling cannon is just to good against it.
Did you use the quantum shield stratagem ? Did you have a cloaktek which can repair DDAs ? Did you have a spyder which can repair DDAs ?
Yes i did. 3 Knights with avenger cannons and battlecannons with rerolls 1s to hit from Kalgar kills 2 DDA in cover, 1 of them under stratagem. Also that was pre last ETCFAQ, so i had to declare stratagem before he decides which cannon fires which of declared targets.
Is that Guilliman instead of Calgar? Guilliman gives every "Imperium" units within 12" of him a reroll to hit of 1, Calgar gives buff to hit for Ultramarine only but it is reroll every failed.
2018/07/03 10:25:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Sautek Stalkers with Heat Rays, use deceiver if necessary to get them in close. After they attack, then use your Destroyers with Methodical Destruction, basically now hitting on 2's reroll 1's, lord for Reroll 1's aura. Use DDA to bring them down. Hell Even deathmarks, since they are only S4, will be wound on 6's but each one is a mortal wound. Get them low enough and Times Arrow could be used to finish one off, might be worth the CP reroll as well.
Stalkers can't take a dynasty.
I quite like heat rays, since you can use focused first few turns and then dispersed when damaged to negate the reduced BS. However I'm pretty sure 20odd pages back the maths says the heat rays are the least efficient option and a particle shredder is the best choice. Against knights this might not be the case though...
Edit: I stopped being lazy and did the math: shredders are the worst option vs knights Gauss comes top, but there is very little in it if you get close range with a focused heat ray. The shredders do get better as the ++ save improves, but never to the point they are worth it. If stalkers we're point efficient then heat rays might win out for a tournament list to give you more flexibility...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/03 10:43:47
2018/07/03 12:43:18
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Are you sure it was Kalgar rerolling the 1s ?? He gives rerolls to friendly CHAPTER units. Knights aren't CHAPTER units.
Yep, sorry. Messed him with Guilliman in my head.
Three knights with girlyman are ~1600 pts. Of course they should be able to kill two DDAs. Two units soaked almost the entire fire from his army. What did the rest of your army do in the meantime ?
2018/07/03 14:11:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Are you sure it was Kalgar rerolling the 1s ?? He gives rerolls to friendly CHAPTER units. Knights aren't CHAPTER units.
Yep, sorry. Messed him with Guilliman in my head.
Three knights with girlyman are ~1600 pts. Of course they should be able to kill two DDAs. Two units soaked almost the entire fire from his army. What did the rest of your army do in the meantime ?
Em... Nothing? Cause thats first turn and knights have less drops than you. After he kills your DDA and destroyers, its quite easy for him to engage your troops every turn.
He kills 2 DDA first turn. You should kill at least 1 knight in response to match him with points. Problem is that we dont have enought firepower to do that even with all DDA being functional (not sure anyone have).
If you want to tell me that necrons have upper hand over knights - do it. Or i just dont get your point.
2018/07/03 15:28:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Can necrons sucseed against knights? Yes but it is an uphill battle. More so if the opponent knows they are fighting necrons.
That list of 3 + guilliman is borderline stupid. What side of the border i wont say. But necrons have little chance vs it unless you taylor your list to fight it and even then again uphill battle. I do not envy anyone fighting that, you cant bring what you need in enough numbers to matter.
Maybe 20 deathmarks for dealing with guilliman, deep striking deatroyers, 3 dda with a repair cryptek, a tesseract vault maybe 2, and some scarabs for explosives? No idea how many points that comes to but its what we have so....
2018/07/03 17:29:09
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Doesn't heroic intervention specify that the character has to be 3" from an enemy model to make that extra move? I think you'll find that that will rarely happen. It isn't 3" from a friendly model in combat, right?
Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/
2018/07/03 18:42:25
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Brymm wrote: Doesn't heroic intervention specify that the character has to be 3" from an enemy model to make that extra move? I think you'll find that that will rarely happen. It isn't 3" from a friendly model in combat, right?
Correct. 3" from a charging enemy.
2018/07/03 18:49:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
I'd say they are upper-mid tier. They can hang in most games, but have some pricing issues. I think our stratagems are very good though, and dynasty codes are strong.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/07/04 06:05:17
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
So.. How bad is this list? I've just been playing about a bit. It looks pretty resilient but I'm not convinced by its ability to actually kill things..
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
They will get wiped versus the top lists. Necrons are more or less a mid tier army; mainly because of weird scaling. Currently a lot of stuff in the army is massively overpriced for what it does and you add in a lack of synergy and too much randomness for certain things and it just restricts how good the army can actually be. People focus on one or two units with one or two really good stratagems but these are all Necrons really have in terms of being "competitive." GW needs to go back to the drawing board for how Necrons work and hopefully the next CA/FAQ addresses some issues because currently ressurection protocols and living metal are the two most useless special rules in the entire game and Necron units pay a premium for them.
Nazi punks feth off
2018/07/04 08:07:14
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Brymm wrote: Doesn't heroic intervention specify that the character has to be 3" from an enemy model to make that extra move? I think you'll find that that will rarely happen. It isn't 3" from a friendly model in combat, right?
Knight heroic intervention is 6" IIRC. They also have a house stratagem that allows them to overwatch and roll a 2d6 heroic intervention If you charge a friendly unit within 12 inches of them.
2018/07/04 08:44:12
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
fatbudda319 wrote: So.. How bad is this list? I've just been playing about a bit. It looks pretty resilient but I'm not convinced by its ability to actually kill things..
Always max units, if possible. Destroyers are one of the best units we have, use 6 of them. I would drop the tomb blades, immortals and go full silver tide, 3*20 warriors, if possible.
I have mixed feelings about the vault and ctan powers in general, im always skeptical about single models costing so much points. The vault has TITANIC and FLY keywords, which makes it vulnerable against macro weapons and anti FLY weaponry, with +1 to hit FLY. Its not hard to hit.
2018/07/04 16:46:20
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
fatbudda319 wrote: So.. How bad is this list? I've just been playing about a bit. It looks pretty resilient but I'm not convinced by its ability to actually kill things..
Always max units, if possible. Destroyers are one of the best units we have, use 6 of them. I would drop the tomb blades, immortals and go full silver tide, 3*20 warriors, if possible.
I have mixed feelings about the vault and ctan powers in general, im always skeptical about single models costing so much points. The vault has TITANIC and FLY keywords, which makes it vulnerable against macro weapons and anti FLY weaponry, with +1 to hit FLY. Its not hard to hit.
Yeah I get that about the vault, Ive been struggling to fit everything I like in as it is but its an awesome model and Id heard good things. After adding the extra destroyer I could fit 15 warriors in so it looks like this? With that many warriors is Orikan maybe worth it for the 6" bubble?
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
They will get wiped versus the top lists. Necrons are more or less a mid tier army; mainly because of weird scaling. Currently a lot of stuff in the army is massively overpriced for what it does and you add in a lack of synergy and too much randomness for certain things and it just restricts how good the army can actually be. People focus on one or two units with one or two really good stratagems but these are all Necrons really have in terms of being "competitive." GW needs to go back to the drawing board for how Necrons work and hopefully the next CA/FAQ addresses some issues because currently ressurection protocols and living metal are the two most useless special rules in the entire game and Necron units pay a premium for them.
The nice thing about the codex is that we don't really need any special rules piled on or anything. Just some price drops and we are gold.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/07/04 17:30:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
They will get wiped versus the top lists. Necrons are more or less a mid tier army; mainly because of weird scaling. Currently a lot of stuff in the army is massively overpriced for what it does and you add in a lack of synergy and too much randomness for certain things and it just restricts how good the army can actually be. People focus on one or two units with one or two really good stratagems but these are all Necrons really have in terms of being "competitive." GW needs to go back to the drawing board for how Necrons work and hopefully the next CA/FAQ addresses some issues because currently ressurection protocols and living metal are the two most useless special rules in the entire game and Necron units pay a premium for them.
Why are the resurrection protocols so bad?
2018/07/04 17:56:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
Sadly a definite casual only play army. As someone mentioned above RP still arnt fixed to be useful, prices are very wierd and there is a lack of competitive unit combos which are present in top tier dexes.
They have one competitive meta build and it is triple vault.
fatbudda319 wrote: How do Necrons shape up in the post codex world? I've seen the knight struggles but can they at least hold their own against the top tier lists?
They will get wiped versus the top lists. Necrons are more or less a mid tier army; mainly because of weird scaling. Currently a lot of stuff in the army is massively overpriced for what it does and you add in a lack of synergy and too much randomness for certain things and it just restricts how good the army can actually be. People focus on one or two units with one or two really good stratagems but these are all Necrons really have in terms of being "competitive." GW needs to go back to the drawing board for how Necrons work and hopefully the next CA/FAQ addresses some issues because currently ressurection protocols and living metal are the two most useless special rules in the entire game and Necron units pay a premium for them.
Why are the resurrection protocols so bad?
On it's core it's designed not to scale.
In a 1000 pt game it's solid. On a 2000 pt game he is bringing enough firepower to clear your units one at a time and you never get a single roll.
Furthermore it has some unfortunate mechanics, the moment it's at it's most valuable, (single model left in unit, you get to roll a bunch of RP dice) is also the moment you're at greatest risk of losing it all (that last model is also shot), which gears the ability towards an 'either or' type of value.
Either it's great or it's worthless. The complete opposite of a FNP type of roll that we had on 7th which was constant value per model (not saying it's better, just that it's different and it's on the opposite end of the 'scales well' type of ability.
2018/07/04 20:49:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In a 1000 pt game it's solid. On a 2000 pt game he is bringing enough firepower to clear your units one at a time and you never get a single roll.
Not really. It does scale. In a 1000 pts game you dont have as many units, or as many models. Less models, less dice to reanimate. Same with your opponent, he only has half the firepower compared to 2000 pts. Twice the firepower against twice as many models to reanimate at 2k.
2018/07/04 20:50:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In a 1000 pt game it's solid. On a 2000 pt game he is bringing enough firepower to clear your units one at a time and you never get a single roll.
Not really. It does scale. In a 1000 pts game you dont have as many units, or as many models. Less models, less dice to reanimate. Same with your opponent, he only has half the firepower compared to 2000 pts. Twice the firepower against twice as many models to reanimate at 2k.
That only works if they don't focus fire.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/07/04 21:47:54
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In a 1000 pt game it's solid. On a 2000 pt game he is bringing enough firepower to clear your units one at a time and you never get a single roll.
Furthermore it has some unfortunate mechanics, the moment it's at it's most valuable, (single model left in unit, you get to roll a bunch of RP dice) is also the moment you're at greatest risk of losing it all (that last model is also shot), which gears the ability towards an 'either or' type of value.
Either it's great or it's worthless. The complete opposite of a FNP type of roll that we had on 7th which was constant value per model (not saying it's better, just that it's different and it's on the opposite end of the 'scales well' type of ability.
I agree, it doesn't scale well at all. Once the opponent has enough fire power reliably take down any of our units in a single turn, they become extremely overpriced.
I definitely like the old fashion We'll Be Back styled rules instead of a bland FNP save, but GW needs to work on the scaling issue. I think the best option is to give players reactive strategies that can overcome the weakness of Repair Protocols that they can only use a limited amount of times and is not viable for smaller games (decent CP/Point cost). Make a stratagem that allows a unit that is 75% below their starting strength to teleport to a Gate (Monolith, Night Scythe, or a new model) so they would no longer be in range of fire. Change the Resurrection Orb so you can use it once per game when your opponent declares a shooting attack or a charge on a unit so it can potentially bring a low numbered unit back to survivable strength (tied to Lords and Overlords so it can't be spammed effectively). Those are the two main ideas I have.
If we just get a few "Panic Button" tools (and maybe some modest point drops), I think Necrons will be in a very healthy state.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 23:38:34
2018/07/04 22:29:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I like the idea of the res orb being useable during your opponents turn. That makes it highly unique and very valuable, right now its not worth getting.
2018/07/05 02:04:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In a 1000 pt game it's solid. On a 2000 pt game he is bringing enough firepower to clear your units one at a time and you never get a single roll.
Not really. It does scale. In a 1000 pts game you dont have as many units, or as many models. Less models, less dice to reanimate. Same with your opponent, he only has half the firepower compared to 2000 pts. Twice the firepower against twice as many models to reanimate at 2k.
That only works if they don't focus fire.
Which, at this point, the cat is out of the bag. Anybody facing Necrons should know to focus fire each unit until it's off the board.
2018/07/05 07:53:19
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Ressurrection Protocols being usable for any unit could have been part of the solution. It wouldn't break the smaller games don't feel like, you lose a squad of 10 Lychguard in the Shooting phase, get a 50% chance of getting to roll RP or 75% with a re-roll, but they only have one wound so your opponent just needs to get 1 wound in the Fight phase. CP scales with game size so in a big game you get to use it 3 or 4 times, in a smaller game probably not. I wonder if GW is willing to change their strats through errata or if we have to wait for the next codex.
I'd still rather have a mid-tier codex than a high-tier one, but it kind of depends on the luck I'm having with the dice at the time, I really appreciated how OP we were at the start of 6th because I had bad dice at the time. With the exception of Knights I'm still having a lot of fun and not everyone uses meta armies.
One thing that saddens me greatly is that Necrons are more of a late-game threat because RP is a potentially limitless resource, I much preferred the games I had where my opponents felt hopeless but eventually won because they exhausted the RP of my units rather than a game where I magically make all the saves of the last guy in my unit and then roll well and then get a free unit at the end of the game and win that way, not that I'm winning a whole lot.
Lost a kill point game against Knights... I would have also lost any other type of game most likely, but who challenges someone to a kill point game with a Knight list? Used a Nephrekh Outrider, Sautekh Outrider and Sautekh Battalion. Had 17 Tomb Blades with particle beamers that didn't do a whole lot, my thinking was that I'd use them to cap objectives and make the initial shots that trigger the Sautekh strat.
1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) Relic (Veil of Darkness) 85
9 Tomb Blades (particle beamers) 216
8 Tomb Blades (particle beamers) 192
9 Immortals (tesla carbines) 153
9 Immortals (tesla carbines) 153
9 Immortals (tesla carbines) 153
6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300
1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) 85
6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300
7 Canoptek Scarabs 91
7 Canoptek Scarabs 91
Replaced the TBs with DDAs. Lost ITC game against Guard Brigade with Celestine and Blood Angels Supreme Command by 1 VP. I rolled extremely well all game and my opponent rolled poorly, I didn't lose a single unit in my opponent's first shooting phase (quantum shielding strat>+1 to hit cadian strat). DDAs definitely better than TBs, not sure where to go from here. Afraid of using Wraiths because of negative psychic powers like Jinx/Doom and Death Hex, when what I think is the strongest non-spam army we have loses (1 pt, but still) despite extreme luck on my side I'm just not sure what to do.
I took a more casual Sautekh flyer list against a noob with a bunch of Cadians with mortars, some Cadian cavalry and a Vostroyan Shadowsword which he gave a 2+ Sv and -1 to hit, we tied because my opponent hadn't bothered using 3 psychic powers to get D3 VPs instead of 1 (we could still have tied if he rolled a 1 I suppose). We played some weird mission with reinforcements, despite getting all my units in turn 1 and my opponent only getting half he just had too much firepower to deal with, shadowsword killed about 1200 pts worth turn 3-6. Board had lots LOS-breaking terrain, just didn't block LOS from his shadowsword to my flyers, also didn't help against his 10+ mortars. Should have split my Scarabs up for an extra CP.
10000 pts
4000 pts
