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I'm surprised Lychguard aren't a kill team option. After seeing all the different things Nids could take, I was hoping we'd get Wraiths. Still, 4 options isn't bad.

Well , it depends on how much different things we can do. Its actually 5 options (immortals are 2 cause tesla/gauss) , how much total option do others have? Like 7 at least?

I think flyers are under valued in general. Their mobility is good for policing characters so much so that they out value sniper type units.

The problem with the Doom scythe is that it wants sautekh for its heavy gun and meph for its tesla. If you just want to buff the tesla then you are as well just taking night scythe and drawing your anti tank from else where.

Had anyone given consideration to the viability of a -1 to hit meph tesla list? CCB, t.immortals, tomb blades and night scythes?

Our fliers would be a lot better if tesla destructors were 2 damage weapons. At their 1 damage level, they do almost no damage. Don't have the weight of fire to take out most anything. Don't have the AP or base damage to take down vehicles, TEQ, or KEQ.

Trust me. My fliers are painted, and I'd love to use them, but they need nearly a 30 point price drop to be usable, or tesla destructors need a buff, which I would prefer.

Yeah. Tesla Destruc. need buff. 2 Dmg seems reasonable , would also make the Anni Barge less meh

2 Damage for the main Tesla Destructor attacks, and a general addition to the Tesla rule that additional Tesla hits can only ever do 1 damage seems a bit more balanced. Might make rolling slightly more involved if you've got no different-coloured dice and have to roll the main wounds and Tesla wounds separately, but each hit being potentially able to generate 6 wounds feels a little silly to me.

The Annihilation Barge is rather flimsy and underwhelming, but the difference in being able to spit out a potential 24 wounds vs a potential 48 wounds with its main weapon alone is massive, and would probably warrant either a cut to the number of attacks, or a price hike.

2 damage for the tesla destructor seems fine to me, even if applied to the additional attacks.
Remember that most armies have weapons and units that have a much, much higher RoF than what a tesla destructor armed unit can provide, so extra damage seems perfectly fair to me.

At 2 damage it will basically turn into 4-12 autocannons with no AP.
First ask yourself if 4-12 autocannons hitting on a 3+ is all that effective. Now remove any save modifiers from it and reduce the range by half.
Also keep in mind that sometimes you'll only ever get 4 autocannons firing at a time if you don't roll high enough to hit, or even if you are firing at a certain target (such as stealth suits, Raven Guard, Altaioc, camo cloaks, etc)

2 damage on the destructor really doesn't seem all that op if you consider all of those factors.

Agreed. But we're getting a bit into wishlisting here. I digress.

Night scythes are best used to deposit assault troops, or otherwise small squads of objective grabbers, if at all.

I for the moment, have benched mine until they receive some help.

GW needs a more frequent balance schedule once a year is not enough for a "living ruleset"

Biasn wrote:
GW needs a more frequent balance schedule once a year is not enough for a "living ruleset"

They need people who actually play the game and are capable of genuine, holistic tactical and strategic analysis.
Other than "looks cool, ship it"
I blame GW's hiring policy; they said at one point they hire for attitude, which means they probably have a bunch of enthusiastic yes men who don't really argue or debate over the health of the game. They need someone who can tell them "no, that's a stupid idea. Here's why."

Hello! I have a friend who has both Start Collecting Necrons boxes.

What should they do with the other two Overlords?

What is a reliable transport system for warriors?

What is an ideal theme to build for with beyond those two boxes?

How does MWBD and the Triarch Stalker debuff interact?

This person is considering more warriors and destroyers, this good?

Thanks for your time

 Rismonite wrote:
Hello! I have a friend who has both Start Collecting Necrons boxes.

What should they do with the other two Overlords?

What is a reliable transport system for warriors?

What is an ideal theme to build for with beyond those two boxes?

How does MWBD and the Triarch Stalker debuff interact?

This person is considering more warriors and destroyers, this good?

Thanks for your time

1) Either convert them to be lords or give them other wargear options.

2) None. You'd want to field a lot of warriors for them to be effective, and no transport has the capacity for them. The Ghost Ark is more of an ambulance, not a APC. Well, alright, you do have the Veil of Darkness and monoliths, but one is one use only and the other is 400 points. Necrons don't actually have much in the way of conventional transports. Which is completely fine, because they are supposed to teleport around anyway.

3) They don't? MWBD gives +1 to hit, advance, and charge. Triarch Stalker is reroll 1s to hit.
.
4) Destroyers yes, warriors...not really. Warriors atm aren't really a good troops choice unless you have a lot of supporting elements and you are at a points level where you can have both damage dealers and what is basically an overpriced meatshield.

 Rismonite wrote:
Hello! I have a friend who has both Start Collecting Necrons boxes.

What should they do with the other two Overlords?

What is a reliable transport system for warriors?

What is an ideal theme to build for with beyond those two boxes?

How does MWBD and the Triarch Stalker debuff interact?

This person is considering more warriors and destroyers, this good?

Thanks for your time

The Deceiver and the Veil of darkness should fairly reliably transport 3*20 warriors to your enemies' doorstep

torblind wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Hello! I have a friend who has both Start Collecting Necrons boxes.

What should they do with the other two Overlords?

What is a reliable transport system for warriors?

What is an ideal theme to build for with beyond those two boxes?

How does MWBD and the Triarch Stalker debuff interact?

This person is considering more warriors and destroyers, this good?

Thanks for your time

The Deceiver and the Veil of darkness should fairly reliably transport 3*20 warriors to your enemies' doorstep

Monolith supposed to do that. Reduce its cost, give it 5++, fix disembark from it according to beta rules and we have interesting mobile army.

I am facing orks tomorrow in a 0,5k game. I believe i will see a warboss, weirdboy, 2*30 boyz. Weirdboy will da jump 30 boyz 9" away from me and charge. I have no idea how to counter this with wraits, immortals, destroyers, overlords, cryptek, scarabs. Requirements are one HQ, one troop choice, no W10+ and no 2+ sv.
At first i thought about overlord, veil, and 2*10 tesla immortals, 3 scarabs. Then i thought about a battalion with cryptek, overlord and 5, 6, 7 immortals. Gives me plenty of CP, for two relics veil and solar staff, put some units in deepstrike with nephrekh, but it goes against maxing units to get a better reanimation chance. Then i thought about a low unit count number to get +1 to the initiative roll, cryptek with veil, 6 immortals and 6 destroyers in deepstrike to protect them. Going first is a huge advantage in low point games. I could use immortal pride to counter da jump, but the weirdboy gets +1 for 10 boyz when they are near him, thats +3, or even +6 to the psychic test roll, very unlikely to roll higher. He does peril on a roll on 12+, but this wont kill him, and da jump will happen.

MWBD Tesla Immortals are probably the best bet against boyz.

2x 10 with an Overlord and a scarab screen should do ok.

Use a CP to put MWBD on both units, and they will wipe 30 boyz in one turn.

Wow 500pts game and hes goind to spam boys thats a poor army.

Yeah put a scarab screen in front of them to push back da jump, remember that they fly out of combat should they survive the first round of CC (ie no shooting protection for the boys)

5 scarabs wont do much screening though. At 500 pts. area denial is not really possible, unless i hide in a corner.

 p5freak wrote:
5 scarabs wont do much screening though. At 500 pts. area denial is not really possible, unless i hide in a corner.

If you have buildings, you can completely fill a level of the building to prevent assault. Pretty tfg, but legal.

You'd be amazed how much space you can fill with 5 scarabs at maximum coherency spread.

But otherwise, Mephrit Immortals are the hardest of hard counters to boyz with a -1 at half range.... I'm pretty sure one squad has a decent chance of doing it on their own.

I dont like mephrit, i dont want my immortals only 12" away from boyz. I plan to use nephrekh, maybe put one or two units of immortals in deepstrike, depending on what we play, and then possibly veil the overlord to them. Either offensively to wipe out a lonely unit, or defensively, to get away from a 30 boyz ork mob appearing 9" away from me. Nephrekh also lets me advance 6", moving 11" and still being able to shoot is nice to have.

Have you considered novokh? Giving novokh to a bunch of scarabs would be a nasty surprise for him.

Since you only need 1 Troop choice, it might be worth getting either a min squad of immortals or a blob of warriors.

Fill out the other choices with cheap CC specialists, such as flayed ones and scarabs.

Deathmarks could be used to kill the weird boy. I think you can use ethereal interception when he uses Da Jump, but I'm not sure.

Or take an annihilation barge. You can basically kite him all day with it, and even if they do charge it, you can just fly away. This is actually a match up that annihilation barges really like, as its all melee based with no good saves.

Melee against orks ? Very bad idea. 30 boyz can unleash up to 150 (!) attacks. 90 or 120 is more likely, still enough to kill anything we might put against them. I laughed when i read cheap CC specialists, we dont have any. An ork boy, that is a cheap CC specialist, 6 pts. for a model with 4 attacks hitting on 3+. I dont have flayed ones or deathmarks, both are not worth their points.

Will all 30 get to attack though? I'm pretty sure that models can only attack 2" from anyone who's engaged in 8th ed.

And that's on the charge. If they get charged, or if they get shot first, that would reduce a bit of their combat effectiveness.

On paper its scary, but that's only in ideal circumstances. Tactics are supposed to ensure those circumstances are not ideal for them.

Depending on how you deploy, you could probably get away with a small screen. Putting your army in a bottleneck might help. Against a numerically superior force, you don't want to get surrounded, or take the fight to them.
Knowing orks, they will want to get in melee or have short ranged weapons. So find (or make) a nice defensible position, take the best anti-infantry weapons you can find, and hope they'll hold.
In short, just re-enact Rorke's Drift.

Simple, max scarabs to screen a max squad of immortals with tessla. Overlord with veil. 6 deathmarks in deep strike. Let him get t1. Its important. He will da jump his boys into your scarabs and wipe them out, but thats fine. Use the crystal to move your immortals away and up into his weirdboys range and unload. Dead boy and your all the way on his side of the table. He now has to walk back to you. Drop deathmarks in to finish his boss, use overload to help with staff of light as needed, and just wittle him away now. Profit. Use whatever dynasty you like

TBH, I just made a boy spam list based on OP's parameters....the best they can do is 2x30 boys when taking a stock Warboss and Weirdboy with 0 upgrades.

Running
OL
1x5 Scarabs
2x10 Immortals

Is your best bet. Pop Phaeron's will turn 1, give both squads MWBD, and then shoot each boy squad, you should pretty easily wipe them out. Using Sautehk specifically for methodical destruction after 1 squad has fired can make your dudes proc tesla on 4's....it would be devastating.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Will all 30 get to attack though? I'm pretty sure that models can only attack 2" from anyone who's engaged in 8th ed.

With 25mm bases four ranks can fight. That could be all 30. Even with "only" 20 boyz its still 80 attacks.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Depending on how you deploy, you could probably get away with a small screen. Putting your army in a bottleneck might help. Against a numerically superior force, you don't want to get surrounded, or take the fight to them.
Knowing orks, they will want to get in melee or have short ranged weapons. So find (or make) a nice defensible position, take the best anti-infantry weapons you can find, and hope they'll hold.
In short, just re-enact Rorke's Drift.

I dont know if i face 2*30 boyz, could be something else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
TBH, I just made a boy spam list based on OP's parameters....the best they can do is 2x30 boys when taking a stock Warboss and Weirdboy with 0 upgrades.

Running
OL
1x5 Scarabs
2x10 Immortals

Is your best bet. Pop Phaeron's will turn 1, give both squads MWBD, and then shoot each boy squad, you should pretty easily wipe them out. Using Sautehk specifically for methodical destruction after 1 squad has fired can make your dudes proc tesla on 4's....it would be devastating.

I came up with the same list. I only have 3 CP. MWBD on two units and MD would use them all up. But if that wipes out an entire unit of 30 boyz then its worth it.

 p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Will all 30 get to attack though? I'm pretty sure that models can only attack 2" from anyone who's engaged in 8th ed.

With 25mm bases four ranks can fight. That could be all 30. Even with "only" 20 boyz its still 80 attacks.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Depending on how you deploy, you could probably get away with a small screen. Putting your army in a bottleneck might help. Against a numerically superior force, you don't want to get surrounded, or take the fight to them.
Knowing orks, they will want to get in melee or have short ranged weapons. So find (or make) a nice defensible position, take the best anti-infantry weapons you can find, and hope they'll hold.
In short, just re-enact Rorke's Drift.

I dont know if i face 2*30 boyz, could be something else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
TBH, I just made a boy spam list based on OP's parameters....the best they can do is 2x30 boys when taking a stock Warboss and Weirdboy with 0 upgrades.

Running
OL
1x5 Scarabs
2x10 Immortals

Is your best bet. Pop Phaeron's will turn 1, give both squads MWBD, and then shoot each boy squad, you should pretty easily wipe them out. Using Sautehk specifically for methodical destruction after 1 squad has fired can make your dudes proc tesla on 4's....it would be devastating.

I came up with the same list. I only have 3 CP. MWBD on two units and MD would use them all up. But if that wipes out an entire unit of 30 boyz then its worth it.

It should handily. Its near impossible for a squad of 30 to claim cover. With MWBD you should get something like 35 hits on 20 shots, 24ish wounds, probably 20 killed in a squad. Do it to both squads, and then even mob rule can't save them turn 1 since their leadership won't be sky-high, and with 20 casualties, the rest of the unit flees to morale. With Methodical Destruction, the math gets even nastier. You might straight kill 1 mob, and then neuter the other.

10 immortals with MWBD clears 17 boys. 20 boys with mephrekh. The following overwatch kills another 5-7. The unit suffers from morale after that if I'm not mistaken. At that point the immortal unit has made its points back likely. If you successfully screened with scarabs first, then the immortals are ready to take on the other squad of boys too.

SO my solution to big monsters has been the voidreaper artefact. flat 3 damage. wounding auto on 2s. It has made killing canifexes super easy in cc