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2018/07/30 09:30:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm interested by the fact that 2 of the 3 lists were running a Gauss Pylon. Presumably specifically to counter knights. I'm wondering if that may have been more of a detriment rather than a boon. If you take Jessica Bowman for example, she didn't actually get paired Vs any lists that included Knights. How might she have done if the points for the Pylon were put into something else?
Is the Gauss Pylon a knee jerk reaction to counter knights and actually a trap unit?
2018/07/30 09:31:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Midtier? With allies we have factions: Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, Orks, Necrons. Between those we are in a worst shape together with Orks. Mainly cause of lack of allies.
If you go codex-by-codex, situation is better. But till soups are a thing don't think that it matters though.
Those application is not supportedby my device
Maybe there is another way to see them?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 09:32:02
2018/07/30 10:09:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
-Sentinel- wrote: Midtier? With allies we have factions: Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, Orks, Necrons. Between those we are in a worst shape together with Orks. Mainly cause of lack of allies.
If you go codex-by-codex, situation is better. But till soups are a thing don't think that it matters though.
Those application is not supportedby my device
Maybe there is another way to see them?
You speak the truth.
As long as you have ZERO penalty to play soup, soup will be the best solution. If you cant soup bad for you.
Right now there is no reason in not going for soup apart from if you have nothing to soup with.
2018/07/30 10:14:31
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Drider wrote: I'm interested by the fact that 2 of the 3 lists were running a Gauss Pylon. Presumably specifically to counter knights. I'm wondering if that may have been more of a detriment rather than a boon. If you take Jessica Bowman for example, she didn't actually get paired Vs any lists that included Knights. How might she have done if the points for the Pylon were put into something else?
Is the Gauss Pylon a knee jerk reaction to counter knights and actually a trap unit?
Given that three of the top four lists had at least one knight in it (two imperial lists and one renegade) the Pylon is definitely not a knee jerk. Even if there was a theoretical Necron list that does amazing against everything else in the meta but loses to Knights it's pretty clear that losing to Knights means not getting very far in the tournament.
It's definitely unlucky that she prepped for knights and somehow managed to dodge all the knight lists, but if she had gone in with another list and performed better she would have eventually fought a knight list and lost, and we'd be talking about how she should have brought a pylon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 10:30:13
2018/07/30 17:33:02
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
VS Orks: Leader: Nob /w Big Choppa
Heavy, Loota Spanner /w Mega Blasta
Demo, Spanner burna /w Mega Blasta
Combat, Kommando Nob/w Power Klaw
Burna Boy
Boy /w choppa
Kommando /w choppa
4x Gretchin
Game mode was Search & Rescue, basically 5 obj markers and one of them had a chance of becoming the critical objective.
After deploying, I managed to seize the initiative. I Readied most of my Immortals and Deathmarks. My idea was to keep the Flayed Ones close to my Immortals to act as counter-chargers.
However, then it was his move. This is were things got interesting; not having the initiative means you can adapt to your opponents move. He was able to put his Nob and Burna boy out of LoS from my Deathmark this way.
Shooting phase. My Immortals and Deathmark managed to put 2 wounds on each Loota and kill the Kommando. The +1 to hit from our stratagem and the comms is really handy.
Next turn, he charged my Flayed Ones and moved everything up. I stayed put and readied what I could.
However... this is where a big problem popped up. With charges now happening in the movement phase, it was possible for him to avoid my shooting completely! If you have the initiative, falling back is pointless. He will just charge you again anyway!
A Burna advanced and roasted one of my Flayed Ones (forgot the -1 in the injury roll for being obscured though...) Rest of the Ork shooting did nothing.
Then he charged my remaining Flayed One who was body-blocking tow Immortals. The Flayed One died to the Nob and he consolidated into two of my Immortals and locked them up for the rest of the game.
After that.... it pretty much went downhill. The Critical objective was right in the middle of the table, but there was no way I could get to it.
So, things that I learned: -If you have the initiative, be very mindful of enemy charges. Don't be afraid to move back as far as you can. You can even Retreat for an extra 3". Sure that means that said model can't shoot, but at least your models can....
-Flesh wounds are interesting. On one hand, they seemed to not hinder my opponent at all (see the Lootas who would be hitting on a 6 no matter what). However, it did start taking it's toll in the morale phase when I put several models out of action. Once models start getting Shaken, it can snowball and cause almost the entire enemy army to freeze.
-Melee combat is more important than ever, thanks to the earlier-mentioned ability to permanently stay locked in combat.
Necron units thoughts: -I'm not too sure about only taking Immortals and no Warriors. I just felt like I had so few bodies on the board. Not to mention that an Immortal is just as boned as a Warrior when he is locked in combat. Dunno, the AP-2 from the Gauss Blaster was overkill against Orks, maybe this is is better suited for fighting Astartes.
-Definitely should have kept my Flayed Ones more back and not let them take the charge. I need them to counter-charge enemy melee units in hopes of freeing up my other Immortals.
-The Deathmark was definitely a keeper. He either put a flesh wound or killed an Ork per turn (apart from the last one, when everything was locked in combat :frowning: )
-For my Flayed One specialist, I'm think I will make him a Combat specialist instead of a Zealot. Combat can last longer than 1 turn, unlike regular 40k. And you are less screwed of the enemy charges you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 19:13:01
2018/07/30 19:01:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
You won't get that many bodies if you take warriors instead of immortals though.
If you drop all of your immortals and replace them with warriors, you'll get 5 warriors instead of 4 immortals. You'll be losing the 3+ save and the gauss blaster and get hardly anything in return. Replacing 4 3+ save gauss blasters with 5 4+ save flayers is not a good trade.
Even in killteam, warriors are overpriced.
Try mixing your weapons. You took pure gauss, and that's a not a good idea, as you need to be able to deal with a variety of targets. Try going 50/50 gauss and tesla.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/30 19:16:37
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/07/30 19:06:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Unrelated to BAO but I'm shelving my crons. Whether it's knights, aeldari, custodes, etc necrons cannot compete in the current meta. I don't mind being an underdog but I need a chance to actually win which just doesn't exist.
I'll keep a small ray of hope that CA in fall will remedy some pain but I think the army's mechanics just don't work at this point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 19:07:01
See, GW hates necrons. This is just like 5th ed, where they completely neutered gauss prior to the 5th ed codex release (which took 3 years after 5th dropped. Because GW hates us), meaning all it took was one dreadnaught in melee to screw us over. Now the dreadnaughts are bigger and our weapons are still mostly crap.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/30 19:15:32
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/07/30 20:12:05
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Hey Guys, I attended BAO and ended up placing 3rd among the Necrons (probably could've done better but made a pretty major mistake in the last game and ended up losing barely). Either way, while Necrons aren't in the best spot, I still believe that the pylon is probably our only hope of being competitive for now as all the necron lists that didn't bring a pylon placed even more poorly (in fact iirc one brought a tesseract vault and lost almost every game). Just my thoughts, I'm not some amazing player though so take this with a grain of salt.
2018/07/30 20:21:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Flayed Ones seem fairly solid in Kill Team. Still fairly slow and only 4+, but with how combat mechanics work and RP + Obscurity rules, they seem much more likely to get in, and their combat profile is fairly strong for the system (especially with Combat Specialist). Running 3 in my current loadout, fairly reliable in these small setups.
2018/07/30 21:03:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
CthuluIsSpy wrote: See, GW hates necrons. This is just like 5th ed, where they completely neutered gauss prior to the 5th ed codex release (which took 3 years after 5th dropped. Because GW hates us), meaning all it took was one dreadnaught in melee to screw us over. Now the dreadnaughts are bigger and our weapons are still mostly crap.
They don't hate any faction. They mistakenly trusted the wrong people to playtest things. People who are incredibly biased, and honest about how they deliberately set out to make certain factions bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 21:03:39
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/07/30 21:12:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
CthuluIsSpy wrote: See, GW hates necrons. This is just like 5th ed, where they completely neutered gauss prior to the 5th ed codex release (which took 3 years after 5th dropped. Because GW hates us), meaning all it took was one dreadnaught in melee to screw us over. Now the dreadnaughts are bigger and our weapons are still mostly crap.
They don't hate any faction. They mistakenly trusted the wrong people to playtest things. People who are incredibly biased, and honest about how they deliberately set out to make certain factions bad.
Wow really? Damn, guess I'll put them in the proverbial Book of Grudges instead.
You're talking about Front Line Gaming, right? Did they actually say that? That's pretty scummy.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/07/30 21:25:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
CthuluIsSpy wrote: See, GW hates necrons. This is just like 5th ed, where they completely neutered gauss prior to the 5th ed codex release (which took 3 years after 5th dropped. Because GW hates us), meaning all it took was one dreadnaught in melee to screw us over. Now the dreadnaughts are bigger and our weapons are still mostly crap.
They don't hate any faction. They mistakenly trusted the wrong people to playtest things. People who are incredibly biased, and honest about how they deliberately set out to make certain factions bad.
Wow really? Damn, guess I'll put them in the proverbial Book of Grudges instead.
You're talking about Front Line Gaming, right? Did they actually say that? That's pretty scummy.
Supposedly that was a comment with Eldar. They're definitely the worst people to entrust with these decisions.
It isn't like there's terribly much to fix. Warriors and Flayed Ones getting a 3+ and Immortals gaining T5 would go a long way.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/07/30 21:46:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Well damn. Are they still playtesting? I hope not.
Yes, I agree Warriors should have their 3+ back and Immortals should be T5 again. Then they'd be worth their points.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/07/30 22:15:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
What is it with frontline gaming and being biased? Ive read about them liking eldar and AM but it was mostly just Tau players that really disliked them.
2018/07/30 22:30:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It's just people being salty. There's no real correlation between what armies FLG plays and which ones are good; Reece plays Raptors Space Marines and Night Lords CSM and neither of those armies are amazing. For the other side of the coin he's said repeatedly that he doesn't enjoy bringing big titanic units but that definitely didn't stop the Imperial Knight codex from being good.
2018/07/30 22:45:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Arachnofiend wrote: It's just people being salty. There's no real correlation between what armies FLG plays and which ones are good; Reece plays Raptors Space Marines and Night Lords CSM and neither of those armies are amazing. For the other side of the coin he's said repeatedly that he doesn't enjoy bringing big titanic units but that definitely didn't stop the Imperial Knight codex from being good.
I remember them being really positive about Necrons index back then, even if it had obvious short-comings compared to other indeces.
2018/07/30 22:49:37
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Maybe they are just bad at playtesting stuff? Maybe they have too much respect for GW and are afraid of telling them „you did gak with unit/codex X“
Ive never been a playtester so i dont know how it works but i would say you have to spam and abuse EVERYTHING you can against EVERY faction to see IF there is something to abuse and how strong it is...(also looking at potential synergies)
2018/07/30 23:00:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Arachnofiend wrote: It's just people being salty. There's no real correlation between what armies FLG plays and which ones are good; Reece plays Raptors Space Marines and Night Lords CSM and neither of those armies are amazing. For the other side of the coin he's said repeatedly that he doesn't enjoy bringing big titanic units but that definitely didn't stop the Imperial Knight codex from being good.
Look at the Grey Knights codex and what Reece said about us complaining. If that doesn't tell you anything, what will?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/07/30 23:18:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Arachnofiend wrote: It's just people being salty. There's no real correlation between what armies FLG plays and which ones are good; Reece plays Raptors Space Marines and Night Lords CSM and neither of those armies are amazing. For the other side of the coin he's said repeatedly that he doesn't enjoy bringing big titanic units but that definitely didn't stop the Imperial Knight codex from being good.
I remember them being really positive about Necrons index back then, even if it had obvious short-comings compared to other indeces.
Reece is a pretty positive person in general, he seems to more readily assume things will be good than that they will be bad. He was pretty excited for the morale manipulation traits too, and we all know how that turned out.
2018/07/30 23:55:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
You're talking about Front Line Gaming, right? Did they actually say that? That's pretty scummy.
Yes, and yes.
They also maliciously mislead people in their articles for GW claiming the worst things were actually the best things. Which is exactly the kind of feedback they are giving to GW.
It's possible they are just bad at playtesting, Occam's Razor and all, but how often and loudly shouting over actual logic can you be at something before you're willfully ignorant instead?
They passed that pretty long ago; eg Grey Knights.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/07/31 00:44:41
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
You're talking about Front Line Gaming, right? Did they actually say that? That's pretty scummy.
Yes, and yes.
They also maliciously mislead people in their articles for GW claiming the worst things were actually the best things. Which is exactly the kind of feedback they are giving to GW.
It's possible they are just bad at playtesting, Occam's Razor and all, but how often and loudly shouting over actual logic can you be at something before you're willfully ignorant instead?
They passed that pretty long ago; eg Grey Knights.
Remember Gretchin being the best unit ever? If the codex doesn't change them by much you'll know for a fact they're shills pure and simple.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/07/31 02:02:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Ok so we are back to Index Crons with needing the FW Pylon to deal with Armor? I guess our only hope is the FW does its thing and makes the new Momma Spider tank Over Powered as hell!
2018/07/31 02:21:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Pyrothem wrote: Ok so we are back to Index Crons with needing the FW Pylon to deal with Armor? I guess our only hope is the FW does its thing and makes the new Momma Spider tank Over Powered as hell!
I don't actually expect that to happen though. Despite their reputation, FW usually errs on the side of underpowered.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/07/31 03:39:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
So Necrons in kill team are preeeetty good. 10 for leadership is AMAZING. That basically means the opponent has to table you to break you.
Too bad I don't like the game xD
If you charged the previous turn and didn't kill a guy (which is likelly due to flesh wounds) then if you get first player - the opponent can run away and you can't do anything to stop him. Lovelly.
Also, whoever said to take Tesla Immortals lost every ounce of credibility in my eyes. Tesla immortals in Kill team are TERRIBLE. Not only do you very easily get in 12'' for rapid fire for gauss, if you play tesla you get SO many -1s to hit. Basically you will only get procs within 12''... which is when you should be using gauss anyway!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/31 03:45:05
~4100
~1660
