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 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So Necrons in kill team are preeeetty good. 10 for leadership is AMAZING. That basically means the opponent has to table you to break you.

Too bad I don't like the game xD
If you charged the previous turn and didn't kill a guy (which is likelly due to flesh wounds) then if you get first player - the opponent can run away and you can't do anything to stop him. Lovelly.

Also, whoever said to take Tesla Immortals lost every ounce of credibility in my eyes. Tesla immortals in Kill team are TERRIBLE. Not only do you very easily get in 12'' for rapid fire for gauss, if you play tesla you get SO many -1s to hit. Basically you will only get procs within 12''... which is when you should be using gauss anyway!

Oh right, you get long range modifiers now. Wow, that makes tesla pretty lacklustre then. Gauss all the way I suppose, until they make it so that tesla doesn't suffer range modifiers.

So basically the ONLY choice we have (immortal weapons) is not a choice because Tesla is worse in every scenario except for when AP is completelly useless. xD

GW game design at work, folks

This is why I'd be happier if tesla weapons procced on a *natural* 6. Yeah, it'd be a nerf to MWBD, but it'd let you actually advance with your assault weapons, or make use of that 24" range versus Altaioc.

momerathe wrote:
This is why I'd be happier if tesla weapons procced on a *natural* 6. Yeah, it'd be a nerf to MWBD, but it'd let you actually advance with your assault weapons, or make use of that 24" range versus Altaioc.

To me that's a better change overall. Makes tesla units more viable, as then you don't have to baby sit them all of the time with an overlord, and it opens up more list combinations.
MWBD would still be useful, as it is a pretty strong buff.

momerathe wrote:
This is why I'd be happier if tesla weapons procced on a *natural* 6. Yeah, it'd be a nerf to MWBD, but it'd let you actually advance with your assault weapons, or make use of that 24" range versus Altaioc.

Since here's no MWBD in Kill Teams, and they already changed plasma to be only on a natural 1, there's no reason they shouldn't have changed Tesla to only proc on a natural 6...except for that "GW hates Necrons" idea that keeps coming back

Holy crap the persecution complex in this thread is amazing...

Requizen wrote:
Holy crap the persecution complex in this thread is amazing...

This is nothing, you should read some of the space marine threads. :p

Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity is what I always say.

Ill be playing 3 Doom Scythes in a friendly game soon. Are there techniques or strategies to keep them within range of the intended target and not crash them or fly off board with them?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity is what I always say.

"...but don't rule out malice."

I believe that's the full quote.
GW is probably just consistently incompetent though.

Are you seriously considering a company, who's goal is to make money, hating a part of their customer base that does nothing but stupply them with said money?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Are you seriously considering a company, who's goal is to make money, hating a part of their customer base that does nothing but stupply them with said money?

Welcome to the Kirby era, where the attitude was "our customers are idiots who'll buy anything we make"
The Kirby era was not consumer friendly and was less geared towards making a healthy game and community, and more towards lining their pockets.
Its better now, but they've been making some really stupid decisions that don't help the game. Like pushing Super Heavy vehicles without properly giving armies the means to deal with them, or seemingly focusing on soup rather than allowing armies to work on their own merits.

I think people are short changing tesla. Yes at +12 inchs it will be hard to get tesla to go off but its still 2 shot to the gauss's 1 shot. Next if you really want your tesla to go off, the comms specialist can boost your BS and you can negate cover with a necron stratagem. Now I'm not saying tesla is better and you should never take gauss. Hell, gauss is arguably the better of two for more situation, at least in kill team. But if you have 3 immortal you can maybe make 1 of them tesla is all I'm saying.

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
I think people are short changing tesla. Yes at +12 inchs it will be hard to get tesla to go off but its still 2 shot to the gauss's 1 shot. Next if you really want your tesla to go off, the comms specialist can boost your BS and you can negate cover with a necron stratagem. Now I'm not saying tesla is better and you should never take gauss. Hell, gauss is arguably the better of two for more situation, at least in kill team. But if you have 3 immortal you can maybe make 1 of them tesla is all I'm saying.

Does boosting BS help though? Doesn't change the fact that those 6s become 5s with -1 to hit

Played my first KT game today.

As i thought alot of the specialist bonuses dont work well with necrons.
I also like how they changed RP from a 5+ to a 6+...

Other than that morale is a HUGE thing in KT and Necrons are pretty strong having morale10

Flayed Ones are only good for counter charging
if your opponent doesnt have any melee stuff well bad for you you have probably wasted those 10-20points (I dont think you need more than 2FOs)

Played a Necron Kill team Match Last night
x4 Immortals all with Gauss
x2 Flayed Ones
x1 Deathmark

It worked pretty well. RP never came into play. I swear...of the flesh wound rolls in game, only 3 were flesh wounds, everything else was immediately "out of action" for both sides lol. Very bloody. Flayed Ones...honestly did ok. They moved up out of LOS, and then charged things, and took an inordinate amount of fire away from the Immortals.
Deathmark did well. Got 2 mortal wounds during the game.

RP on a 5+ would be pretty busted in Kill Team, it would reduce your chance of dying to the first injury roll to 1/6 where everyone else is looking at 1/2. It's possible the 6 is too infrequent but the fact that it takes up one of your "you are dead" rolls does really help.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
RP on a 5+ would be pretty busted in Kill Team, it would reduce your chance of dying to the first injury roll to 1/6 where everyone else is looking at 1/2. It's possible the 6 is too infrequent but the fact that it takes up one of your "you are dead" rolls does really help.

Yeah, RP seems to be pretty useful in KT. Don't forget that it also removes all flesh wounds as well, so not only does the model avoid death, it gets better.

torblind wrote:

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
I think people are short changing tesla. Yes at +12 inchs it will be hard to get tesla to go off but its still 2 shot to the gauss's 1 shot. Next if you really want your tesla to go off, the comms specialist can boost your BS and you can negate cover with a necron stratagem. Now I'm not saying tesla is better and you should never take gauss. Hell, gauss is arguably the better of two for more situation, at least in kill team. But if you have 3 immortal you can maybe make 1 of them tesla is all I'm saying.

Does boosting BS help though? Doesn't change the fact that those 6s become 5s with -1 to hit

The Comms' scanner ability adds 1 to hit roles, it doesn't change your stat. So if the target is over half range an the roll has a -1 and the Comms gives you a +1 it is possible to get tesla to work on a 6. Likewise, if the target is in half range its possible to get tesla to pop on a 5+.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
RP on a 5+ would be pretty busted in Kill Team, it would reduce your chance of dying to the first injury roll to 1/6 where everyone else is looking at 1/2. It's possible the 6 is too infrequent but the fact that it takes up one of your "you are dead" rolls does really help.

Yeah, RP seems to be pretty useful in KT. Don't forget that it also removes all flesh wounds as well, so not only does the model avoid death, it gets better.

I can't say. It never came up thusfar in the games i've played.

I think we should have a separate Kill Team Tactica.

 Blndmage wrote:
I think we should have a separate Kill Team Tactica.

Seems a reasonable idea. Start one!
Got impatient. Started one for us.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/761422.page

I've been continuing along with the mathhammer and I really like how Lychguard with sycthes synergies with certain things.


Ignore the Orange Cells as they take into account the Knight invul vs shooting which is non relevant vs melee, although I've left them in for reference as it is possible for knights to have a 5++ or 4++ melee invul. For "normal" damage vs knight results use the Leman Russ T8/3+ column.

A full squad of 10 buffed with My Will Be Done, The Lords Will, and Nemesor Zahndrekh's Transient Madness: Avenge the Fallen and Disruption Fields.
All this stacked together gives you 30 attacks, hitting on 2s, S8, AP-4, D2 with reroll 1s to wound. Mathed out it does 29.17 expected average damage to T8/3+(a knight in melee). This is a higher expected outcome than a Gauss Pylon shooting a knight, due in part to d6 random shots, shooting vs invul/rotate (5++/4++). It is worth noting that Transient Madness is a random chance buff, you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting Avenge the Fallen for the +1 attack, with a CP reroll you have around a 55% chance of getting the buff you want. Excluding this as an uncontrollable factor leaves you with an expected 19.44 damage vs a knight, which is the same as a Gauss pylon Vs a knight with a 4++.

There are a few factors that I've brushed over with this quick break down, but over all though It looks like Scytheguard are a more versatile choice as they are able to deal handily with a wider variety of targets than the Gauss pylon's single role.

Now, onto the elephant in the room, horrendous mobility.
5" movement is god awful, but I've already eluded to the solution with the "optimal buffs". Nemesor Zahndrekh, Vargard Obyron and the good old Ghostwalk shuffle. I'm sure most are already fully aware, but with the inclusion of a character (Cryptek) with Veil this combo can potentially put the Scytheguard into unfailable charge range.
The breakdown for those who may be unaware.
Zahndrekh puts MWBD on the Lychguard.
The Cryptek Veil's Zahndrekh to 9.1" from the enemy.
Obyron then Ghostwalk's himself and the Lychguard to within 6" of Zahn. (3.1" from the enemy)
Because the wording is "within" and not "wholly within" we can include the 32mm base size and for argument's sake call it 1". (This put's you at 2.1 inch with a minimum charge range of 3" due to MWBD)

Something to keep in mind is that Zahn himself is sold on a 25mm base, so if you wanted to go all in without bringing your cryptek along you only need to find a 1 square inch gap between any screening units in order to get in.

The Shuffle can also be used to aid with the, post bomb mobility. Ghostwalk happens at the end of the movement phase. This means that we can move or even advance Zahn before using it. This gives us a 5+1d6" +6" +1" +12" maximum range threat bubble of 30" but a more realistic 22.5"/23.5" threat bubble based on average rolls. Bare in mind also that this threat range bubble is centered from Zahn and not the lychguard.

Now, the down side...
For this to work it's going to cost points. 715 in total for zah(180), Oby(140), Cryptek w/ chrono (95) and 10 Scytheguard(300). This Vs the previously compared Gauss Pylon (550). It doesn't seem like an awful lot more considering it gives you 3 HQs which can unlock 2 or possibly even 3 detachments, but they would all have to be Sautekh which isn't strictly speaking the best option out there.

--------

I've been thinking about how I'd implement this into a list and this is what I've come up with.


I've Opted for 2 Units of Destroyers because they have to be Sautekh and feel that this adds a much needed layer of redundancy hopefully giving me the opportunity to EP with as full a unit as possible. Also because they are Infantry they are a viable unit for Zahn's TM buff for +1BS if i either don't get the +1 attack buff for the Lychguard or do not want to drop the bomb yet.
I've also gone for a unit of tesla tomb blades and 3 units of scarabs to fill out the detachments and provide some objective grabbing/screening units. There is also the option with the tomb blades that they might just be able to flit across the table and hook up with Zahn/Oby/Cryptek and provide screening for them.

If this list gets EXTREMELY lucky with first turn and a suitable gap to veil into it can do an average expected wounds of 29.17 from the lychguard, call it 24 for 1 dead knight. Plus around 24.74 from tomb blades and destroyers for a second dead knight, but this relies on baiting out the rotate and spending 2 CP on MD. kind of unlikely to happen, so I'd say that we can call it 1 dead knight and 1 knight on the lowest degrading.

Just use Kutlakh and treat him as Nephrekh. Enjoy your Flayed Ones and Lychguard with essentially 11" of movement.

 Drider wrote:
I've been continuing along with the mathhammer and I really like how Lychguard with sycthes synergies with certain things.


Ignore the Orange Cells as they take into account the Knight invul vs shooting which is non relevant vs melee, although I've left them in for reference as it is possible for knights to have a 5++ or 4++ melee invul. For "normal" damage vs knight results use the Leman Russ T8/3+ column.

A full squad of 10 buffed with My Will Be Done, The Lords Will, and Nemesor Zahndrekh's Transient Madness: Avenge the Fallen and Disruption Fields.
All this stacked together gives you 30 attacks, hitting on 2s, S8, AP-4, D2 with reroll 1s to wound. Mathed out it does 29.17 expected average damage to T8/3+(a knight in melee). This is a higher expected outcome than a Gauss Pylon shooting a knight, due in part to d6 random shots, shooting vs invul/rotate (5++/4++). It is worth noting that Transient Madness is a random chance buff, you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting Avenge the Fallen for the +1 attack, with a CP reroll you have around a 55% chance of getting the buff you want. Excluding this as an uncontrollable factor leaves you with an expected 19.44 damage vs a knight, which is the same as a Gauss pylon Vs a knight with a 4++.

There are a few factors that I've brushed over with this quick break down, but over all though It looks like Scytheguard are a more versatile choice as they are able to deal handily with a wider variety of targets than the Gauss pylon's single role.

Now, onto the elephant in the room, horrendous mobility.
5" movement is god awful, but I've already eluded to the solution with the "optimal buffs". Nemesor Zahndrekh, Vargard Obyron and the good old Ghostwalk shuffle. I'm sure most are already fully aware, but with the inclusion of a character (Cryptek) with Veil this combo can potentially put the Scytheguard into unfailable charge range.
The breakdown for those who may be unaware.
Zahndrekh puts MWBD on the Lychguard.
The Cryptek Veil's Zahndrekh to 9.1" from the enemy.
Obyron then Ghostwalk's himself and the Lychguard to within 6" of Zahn. (3.1" from the enemy)
Because the wording is "within" and not "wholly within" we can include the 32mm base size and for argument's sake call it 1". (This put's you at 2.1 inch with a minimum charge range of 3" due to MWBD)

Something to keep in mind is that Zahn himself is sold on a 25mm base, so if you wanted to go all in without bringing your cryptek along you only need to find a 1 square inch gap between any screening units in order to get in.

The Shuffle can also be used to aid with the, post bomb mobility. Ghostwalk happens at the end of the movement phase. This means that we can move or even advance Zahn before using it. This gives us a 5+1d6" +6" +1" +12" maximum range threat bubble of 30" but a more realistic 22.5"/23.5" threat bubble based on average rolls. Bare in mind also that this threat range bubble is centered from Zahn and not the lychguard.

Now, the down side...
For this to work it's going to cost points. 715 in total for zah(180), Oby(140), Cryptek w/ chrono (95) and 10 Scytheguard(300). This Vs the previously compared Gauss Pylon (550). It doesn't seem like an awful lot more considering it gives you 3 HQs which can unlock 2 or possibly even 3 detachments, but they would all have to be Sautekh which isn't strictly speaking the best option out there.

--------

I've been thinking about how I'd implement this into a list and this is what I've come up with.

Spoiler:

1750Pts
2 Spearhead Detachments

+ HQ +

Cryptek: Chronometron, Staff of Light, Warlord: Hyperlogical strategist, veil of darkness

Nemesor Zahndrekh

Vargard Obyron


+ Elites +

Lychguard: 10x Lychguard, Warscythe


+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers
6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Destroyers
6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades
9x Tomb Blade: 9x Two Tesla Carbines, 5x Shieldvanes 3x Shadowlooms

I've Opted for 2 Units of Destroyers because they have to be Sautekh and feel that this adds a much needed layer of redundancy hopefully giving me the opportunity to EP with as full a unit as possible. Also because they are Infantry they are a viable unit for Zahn's TM buff for +1BS if i either don't get the +1 attack buff for the Lychguard or do not want to drop the bomb yet.
I've also gone for a unit of tesla tomb blades and 3 units of scarabs to fill out the detachments and provide some objective grabbing/screening units. There is also the option with the tomb blades that they might just be able to flit across the table and hook up with Zahn/Oby/Cryptek and provide screening for them.

If this list gets EXTREMELY lucky with first turn and a suitable gap to veil into it can do an average expected wounds of 29.17 from the lychguard, call it 24 for 1 dead knight. Plus around 24.74 from tomb blades and destroyers for a second dead knight, but this relies on baiting out the rotate and spending 2 CP on MD. kind of unlikely to happen, so I'd say that we can call it 1 dead knight and 1 knight on the lowest degrading.

You're catapulting the court and the royal gonads straight into the middle of the lion's den, seems like quite the gamble. No CC invul for the lychguard for when the knights hit back

Ok, silly question - can you charge out of a monolith, and if not, why? I can't seem to find where it says I can't.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, silly question - can you charge out of a monolith, and if not, why? I can't seem to find where it says I can't.

Of course you can, it's just not really reasonable to do and also expensive.

torblind wrote:
You're catapulting the court and the royal gonads straight into the middle of the lion's den, seems like quite the gamble. No CC invul for the lychguard for when the knights hit back

This is all true but I think comes down to knowing when to commit and when not to. I think that not having a CC invul is something to be aware of but I don't think that is a huge issue if handled right, almost anything you go in on should die. I'd be more concerned about the knight exploding and killing characters. In order for the lychguard to charge and be in range of the cryptek they would have to string back and you'd actually lose the attacks from 1 model.

As mentioned on a previous page, you can only do the Ghostwalk Slingshot once against an opponent (because after that they'll be bubble wrapping their important stuff so nothing can charge it).