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2018/08/23 19:26:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Yeah, basically, I think Destroyers are balanced. They are only really "powerful" because of Extermination Protocols.
You can't really spam them, they are too expensive for that
Too bad reason does mean much when it comes to points adjustments so far.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/08/23 19:38:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Avatar 720 wrote: I'm sure a good few people would jump at the chance to get a Necron battalion detachment that only costs 117pts in troops.
I considered this, and that could probably be avoided with some sort of rule like "drones - cannot gain objective secured or counts towards minimal troops requirements for battle forged lists." or something like that. Then again, I think IG can make battalions like that as well. Its 4 points a guardsmen, right? So they can make a battalion with 120 pts of troops no problem. All armies should have that option, really.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/23 19:49:27
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/08/23 20:12:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Necrons having cheap battalions wouldn't break things as hard as Guard's cheap battalions because Necrons don't have the ability to cherry pick the best stratagems from three different codexes in a single army.
2018/08/23 20:19:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Arachnofiend wrote: Necrons having cheap battalions wouldn't break things as hard as Guard's cheap battalions because Necrons don't have the ability to cherry pick the best stratagems from three different codexes in a single army.
And our HQs are still pricey.
Automatically Appended Next Post: although on second thought a difference of a couple of 10s of points is perhaps not the kind of breakage were talking about
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 20:19:59
2018/08/23 20:52:22
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Scarabs would probably be nerfed (again) if they were made troops which would leave us with yet another below par unit. I'd rather keep them as FA and be usable. I wouldn't give Tesla Destructors an AP, but making them Assault 6 and D2 would go a long way to helping.
2018/08/23 22:04:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
At no point in 8th edition have they made such a radical errata as making a Fast Attack unit that had never been Troops into Troops.
It's pointless to speculate about. The only things that will actually change are numbers, and 99% of those numbers are going to be points changes.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/08/23 23:02:23
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Yeah, basically, I think Destroyers are balanced. They are only really "powerful" because of Extermination Protocols.
You can't really spam them, they are too expensive for that
But regardless, I'd love a fix to our transports, monolith drops to 300 points, 1 point drop for immortals. 2 point drop for warriors.
That...and AP-1 for tesla destructors, but I digress.
Tesla shouldn't have any AP, but I think most people would be cool for D2 on them.
For the largest iteration of the tesla weapon line, it feels like trying to club your enemy to death with a slice of New York Pizza.
The gun seriously needs to be STR 7, AP-1, 2 damage flat, to even be worth consideration. It is the absolute worst autocannon variant/equivalent in the game, even with tesla occasionally spotting you another hit, assuming you are lucky enough to not be shooting at a -1, -2, or -3 to hit.
It isn't the worst equivalent. The issue is the Barge as a platform. 8 shots with D2 wouldn't be too bad, but the Barge isn't doing any favors.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/08/24 02:42:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It is though. What autocannon equivalent in the game is worse?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/08/26 03:25:41
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
So day 1 of Siegeworld is over, and I'm the only player representing for Necrons. Sitting at 2-1 and 24/60, mostly due to my first match was an absolutely brutal face stomping by Thousand Sons piloted by an exceptional player. Played DA in my second match and did quite well. Third match was a close match vs Alpha Legion in which I only won by 2 points.
I'm running Overlords, Scarabs, Tesla Immortals, Destroyers, and DDAs. Nephrekh main detachment with Sautekh spearhead. We'll see what day 2 brings.
2018/08/26 08:07:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'd like to see Tesla destructors go to stretch 8 - would mean they do better to wound vs MEQ, and makes them stand out against similar weapons in other armies. It wouldn't be enough on it's own to justify the current points, but damage 2 as well might be too much....
2018/08/26 11:41:09
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Some units will get point drops, some will see a point increase (destroyers, my guess is about 60), and EP will probably be 2CP, because its very strong. And thats gonna be it. Dont expect a major overhaul.
2018/08/26 12:45:43
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
p5freak wrote: Some units will get point drops, some will see a point increase (destroyers, my guess is about 60), and EP will probably be 2CP, because its very strong. And thats gonna be it. Dont expect a major overhaul.
They will either increase the Destroyers or Increase EP to 2CPs. No way would they do both. EP is what's makes Destroyers so good. Almost like a 1 trick pony. Increasin both of them would be a stupid move.
Also if they increase the Destroyers model than Heavy Ds will go up as well. Which would make them pretty bad. Only thing that they could upgrade is the Gauss Cannons pt cost.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/26 12:47:32
p5freak wrote: Some units will get point drops, some will see a point increase (destroyers, my guess is about 60), and EP will probably be 2CP, because its very strong. And thats gonna be it. Dont expect a major overhaul.
They will either increase the Destroyers or Increase EP to 2CPs. No way would they do both. EP is what's makes Destroyers so good. Almost like a 1 trick pony. Increasin both of them would be a stupid move.
Also if they increase the Destroyers model than Heavy Ds will go up as well. Which would make them pretty bad. Only thing that they could upgrade is the Gauss Cannons pt cost.
Look into what happens to Space Marine you will know GW did tons of stupid moves in this edition, like increase the points for Guilliman Razorback, Stormraven, Assault Cannon and Hurricane Bolter. So, increase the points of both Destroyer and their stratagem is not something unlikely.
Anyway, I think increase the points for both Destroyer base cost and cost for their weapons are more likely than increase the cost of the stratagem. A lot of stratagem that has been screamed "oh that is tooooo OooPpp" had never been changed in their
CP costs.
2018/08/26 15:46:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
EP's a little strange to me, there are some instances where it might well be worth 2CP, but others where I'd never pay 2CP for it, for instance if I'm running a Destroyer Lord. Targeting anything T5 or lower--maybe even T6--without any modifiers to being hit with EP only means I'm re-rolling 2s to Hit and Wound, maybe even 3s to Wound as well; I'm not convinced that would ever be worth 2CP for a single unit.
But if there's no Destroyer Lord, and especially if you're targeting high-toughness, -hit modifier models, it becomes a lot better. Worth 2CP? Maybe; it still is only the one unit it affects, after all, but the output would be strengthened.
For me, it's a great example of a stratagem worth about 1.5CP; 1CP is sometimes too cheap, 2CP is sometimes too much, which makes it a bugger to try and balance either way. Hitting the effectiveness/price of the GC and leaving EP alone would probably be the preferred option for me.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/08/26 16:28:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
"I won't elaborate on this further."
Just know that I have no reason to lie.
Until CA though, I'm probably gonna be shelving Necrons. Unless the big FAQ will do stuffs.
Right
Suit yourself. You clearly don't know what even slight leaks can cause if people find that out.
Anyway, pretty much every top ITC player has said that Necrons are unplayble in the Knight meta. Nanavati said he probably couldn't win a GT with Necrons, yet he could with an army that has no guns; Jessica Bowman who has played Necrons forever and often topped the Best in Faction chart can manage a 3:3 at best, only ONE non 3 vault necron list in the ENTIRE ETC. Those points drops can't come soon enough :<
Which sucks for me as I have:
1. AdMech (aka the straight up worse Astra Militarum)
2. Daemons (who got killed by the deepstrike beta rule. You basically have to start 1 turn down if you're playing mono daemons. However this is the only army that I can play with as I can just do Nurgle + 3 TS daemon princes)
3. Orks (Index, so can't really compete that well anymore)
4. Necrons (which turned out to be the worst of the 4... somehow??? Well if you're not spamming the soon to be nerfed vaults ofc)
Why oh why do I have to hate everything about eldar... It'd be so much easier if I just loved and collected them.
Oh, also the big FAQ will have changes people have been asking for. Whatever that is. God I hope it's death to allies
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/26 18:22:14
rvd1ofakind wrote: Necrons will get an almost across the board drop in points in CA. So that's good.
Spoiler:
This is 100% confirmed and I won't elaborate on this further.
Source? That's interesting to hear.
"I won't elaborate on this further."
Just know that I have no reason to lie.
Sure you do, you're a random person on the internet, you could be lying for gaks & giggles, for e-peen, to try and create an idea you know what you're talking about when you don't--though bear in mind I'm not accusing you of any of this. It's not like there's a dearth of reasons people lie on the internet; hell, people lying on the internet is one of the most well-known memes around.
Simply put, you can't just walk in, state something as fact with a vague 'you'll just have to trust me'-type tagline, and not expect people to be immediately suspicious.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/08/26 18:23:21
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm not that much of a random person on the internet. I am quite active on these and other 40k boards(heck, I get called out in basically every single FLG stream for better or worse reasons :p). I have created a giant mathammer spreadsheet for the 4 armies I own. I have some very strong opinions that I can always back up by data, unlike most 40k players who just whine for the sake of whining("waaaah GW hate my army, no they probably hate ME, if I start collecting another army, they'll make it worse". I have not seen stuff like this in any other community I've been a part of. 40k has one of the worst "idiot:normal person" balance). I don't have time for trolling. What's the point?
It's not like what I'm saying is something unexpected.
Top players say necrons suck. Top players also work as testers. ====== Testers say necrons suck = buffs. I know. Shocking.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/26 18:39:53
TBH, it's not like getting a lukewarm response to "Here's a 100% definitely completely accurate fact I outright refuse to back up" is something unexpected, either, especially coming from someone who, despite being active on various boards, has no more apparent credibility in the rumour department as any other randomer.
You can keep acting like people are being unreasonable, or you can accept that you've got one of the smallest foundations for these claims it's possible to have, and that until there's more proof besides "trust me, I make spreadsheets", people are naturally going to heavily doubt the entire thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/26 18:40:31
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/08/26 18:43:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Top players say necrons suck. Top players also work as testers. ====== Testers say necrons suck = buffs
Doesn't make you realise that I'm not making it up - you're one of those people who cry "GW hates necrons" because that'd be the only reason why they wouldn't buff necrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/26 18:44:08
Top players say necrons suck. Top players also work as testers. ====== Testers say necrons suck = buffs
Doesn't make you realise that I'm not making it up - you're one of those people who cry "GW hates necrons" because that'd be the only reason why they wouldn't buff necrons.
So what you're saying is that you don't actually have any proof, and you're just extrapolating from an assumed progression of logic? And that people who doubt you are just whining?
Yes. This makes me so much more inclined to believe you. I can't believe I've been so blind.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/08/26 18:55:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I can't say names of my sources because that is breaking NDA and potentially life ruining? Clearly you do not realise that. Done posting about this. Next time, I'll keep the info to myself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/26 18:57:14
Thank you, that's all the information I think myself and everyone else here needed. Moderators can deal with it from here, I'm sure.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/08/26 20:13:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Points reductions will be very welcome, but there are still rules issues that need straightening out. Well see if anything shows up or whether we'll have to wait for Chapter Approved.
2018/08/26 22:24:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I don't think any reasonable points reductions will actually help Necrons. A lot of our issues are more fundamental than just numbers. Like, all the points drops in the world won't change the fact that the Monolith doesn't function as a transport until turn three.
2018/08/27 03:11:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Oh I'm sure the deepstrike beta rule will get more exceptions like the psychic beta rule did (this is just me speculating, I don't know about this one).
By the way, no one here said anything about the new ITC missions. so here you go:
Pros:
you can take max dude squads because reaper now is just "kill 80 models".
Gangbusters is gone. Your destroyer or wraith squad won't give away 3 VP Necrons are one of the few armies that can potentially avoid Butcher.
Cons:
Pretty much everyone will choose marked for death against you.
It is really hard to force a non-mobile army into taking objectives that require mobility. This is the big one, IMO. Before the only secondaries that scored more than 2 VP against me were: behind enemy lines, recon and old school. That was also the strategy behind the few GT wins that necrons have. Now that this is not really possible anymore (I think), Necrons will become even worse (though the new missions are better overall IMO).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 04:07:49
rvd1ofakind wrote: Oh I'm sure the deepstrike beta rule will get more exceptions like the psychic beta rule did (this is just me speculating, I don't know about this one).
By the way, no one here said anything about the new ITC missions. so here you go:
Pros:
you can take max dude squads because reaper now is just "kill 80 models".
Gangbusters is gone. Your destroyer or wraith squad won't give away 3 VP Necrons are one of the few armies that can potentially avoid Butcher.
Cons:
Pretty much everyone will choose marked for death against you.
It is really hard to force a non-mobile army into taking objectives that require mobility. This is the big one, IMO. Before the only secondaries that scored more than 2 VP against me were: behind enemy lines, recon and old school. That was also the strategy behind the few GT wins that necrons have. Now that this is not really possible anymore (I think), Necrons will become even worse (though the new missions are better overall IMO).
Fair point on the pros and cons. Perhaps some list adjustments are in order to aid with scoring to adapt. Tomb Blades are a very solid unit, and scarabs are cheap objective holders,
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
~4100
~1660
4000 pts
