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tneva82 wrote:

But covering that 20-60" gap it can move especially with 90" degree. Turn 1 that's pretty much impossible. If nothing else necron can move along his own DZ. Frankly never seen being destroyed by enemy models ever. Just moving off board. And never ever on turn 1. Turn 3-4 maybe.

Sure, i want my night scythe flying in my own DZ up to turn 2/3, to keep it safe Dude, its supposed to fly into enemy territory and teleport your units in your opponents face. A smart opponent knows this, and will position his units accordingly. I had my xiphon interceptor killed twice that way.

Played a couple games running mellee crons. They look pretty good so far.


So far, it was victorious. It basically has answers to most meta lists. It chops knights apart with a weight of scythes and a couple mortal wounds from a ctan. It's really annoying to deal with for gunlines -especially for plasma gunlines as the only things they an shoot at are tesla immortals in the backfield or flyers. It also does ok against enemy mellee due to relatively high touvhness.

It does lack in volume of attacks for basically anything other than lychguard and a relic scythe lord. So, you got to really place your lychguard well and not just drop them unsupported. They WILL die if the enemy has the opportunity to throw some shots in their direction. So, you got to choose tbe best position for them.

Other than that, i think it's a very good 1500 list for maelstorm.

 koooaei wrote:
Played a couple games running mellee crons. They look pretty good so far.

Spoiler:

Novokh.
3 destrolords - one with a +1 to save, another one with a +d3 attack scythe.
Transcendent ctan
3x5 tesla immortals
10 lychguards with scythes
2 nightscythes

So far, it was victorious. It basically has answers to most meta lists. It chops knights apart with a weight of scythes and a couple mortal wounds from a ctan. It's really annoying to deal with for gunlines -especially for plasma gunlines as the only things they an shoot at are tesla immortals in the backfield or flyers. It also does ok against enemy mellee due to relatively high touvhness.

It does lack in volume of attacks for basically anything other than lychguard and a relic scythe lord. So, you got to really place your lychguard well and not just drop them unsupported. They WILL die if the enemy has the opportunity to throw some shots in their direction. So, you got to choose tbe best position for them.

Other than that, i think it's a very good 1500 list for maelstorm.

You never had both your night scythes killed turn one?

And supporting your lychguard, does that mean running the destro lords up to meet them as soon as possible? They might not make it all the way for another turn or two.

And what about schaff - what if the AM gunline has 60 guardsmen (his brigade) bubble wrapping his tanks?

It's a 1500 point list, all of those things are less of an issue than they would be at 2000 points.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

But covering that 20-60" gap it can move especially with 90" degree. Turn 1 that's pretty much impossible. If nothing else necron can move along his own DZ. Frankly never seen being destroyed by enemy models ever. Just moving off board. And never ever on turn 1. Turn 3-4 maybe.

Sure, i want my night scythe flying in my own DZ up to turn 2/3, to keep it safe Dude, its supposed to fly into enemy territory and teleport your units in your opponents face. A smart opponent knows this, and will position his units accordingly. I had my xiphon interceptor killed twice that way.

This is indeed a worry, remember you can't just zap away in any direction across the board, suddenly you 're in a corner and can't turn 90 degrees and make your 20" move next turn.

Also you want to make bring your guns to bear, its not making its points back if its flying away out of range for a couple of turns before it can turn around and come back.


I played a game with 3 Doom Scythes against AM (that stratagem rocks!), luckily I went first and boxed him in, but it was hard to plan ahead to have them be able to make their move, and keep their guns in range (24" isnt too long)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It's a 1500 point list, all of those things are less of an issue than they would be at 2000 points.

I agree, though still

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It's a 1500 point list, all of those things are less of an issue than they would be at 2000 points.

I'm not who couldn't kill two Scythes in a 1500 game either.

The scythes simply will not die to movement turn 1 as someone else suggested earlier. The length of movement and turn allows basically the whole board in front of the scythe as potential spots to be, along with the fly rule (which again an earlier poster didn't seem to understand) allowing you to pass over terrain a models.
Second or third turn when you're deep into the board, that's another story.

Also, often overlooked by players is that I can fly a Scythe 1 inch away from a support character turn 1 that isn't properly wrapped and drop 8 Tesla shots on them... Now if only Tesla Destructor shots did anything...

torblind wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Played a couple games running mellee crons. They look pretty good so far.

Spoiler:

Novokh.
3 destrolords - one with a +1 to save, another one with a +d3 attack scythe.
Transcendent ctan
3x5 tesla immortals
10 lychguards with scythes
2 nightscythes

So far, it was victorious. It basically has answers to most meta lists. It chops knights apart with a weight of scythes and a couple mortal wounds from a ctan. It's really annoying to deal with for gunlines -especially for plasma gunlines as the only things they an shoot at are tesla immortals in the backfield or flyers. It also does ok against enemy mellee due to relatively high touvhness.

It does lack in volume of attacks for basically anything other than lychguard and a relic scythe lord. So, you got to really place your lychguard well and not just drop them unsupported. They WILL die if the enemy has the opportunity to throw some shots in their direction. So, you got to choose tbe best position for them.

Other than that, i think it's a very good 1500 list for maelstorm.

You never had both your night scythes killed turn one?

And supporting your lychguard, does that mean running the destro lords up to meet them as soon as possible? They might not make it all the way for another turn or two.

And what about schaff - what if the AM gunline has 60 guardsmen (his brigade) bubble wrapping his tanks?

All i have is game results. One game was vs an ig list with 120 guardsmen, 5 basylisks and a ton of characters. Lychguards managed to find a place cause he had to move forward to score eventually. And planes ate a lot of fire. But i played a bit too much on the safe side and only charged 2 basylisks. Killed them in one go. Must have charged at least 3. But was afraid of overwatch a bit too much. Anywayz, ctan was amazing with his mw spam. And lords bogged down a lot of guards and ate a ton of fire. So, managed to outscore.

Another game was vs another necron player - more shooty oriented. He indeed killed 2 scythes in one go - but it was turn 2 and lychguards managed to wreck his gunline anywayz. Of course with a help of lords and ctan.

I think you're looking at things more pessimistic than needed. If someone brings a list capable of wrecking 2 scythes turn 1 from across the board, it usually means he's running an extremely shooty and most likely immobile list. In which case you just run around and score midboard. He won't be able to place a foot out of his dz before at least turn 4. By which time you must have scored enough and can go into hiding mode.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

But covering that 20-60" gap it can move especially with 90" degree. Turn 1 that's pretty much impossible. If nothing else necron can move along his own DZ. Frankly never seen being destroyed by enemy models ever. Just moving off board. And never ever on turn 1. Turn 3-4 maybe.

Sure, i want my night scythe flying in my own DZ up to turn 2/3, to keep it safe Dude, its supposed to fly into enemy territory and teleport your units in your opponents face. A smart opponent knows this, and will position his units accordingly. I had my xiphon interceptor killed twice that way.

You start in the back corner of your deployment zone at a 45degree angle. Other start at the opposite edge, if running 3, that one is dead center. The rest of the army dead center ready to move up.

You can then modify the flight paths and either go right up the edges where no one deploys, or angle so that you are able to go right where you are going to deploy next turn. After that, it is just a matter of moving to where you need to be to get line of sight for the guns. If the opponent is moving to block the flight paths, they are not moving to get ground based objectives.

As for the Xiphon, I run one in my Chaos army, you do not even need to get near the enemy deployment zone with the long range of those weapons (48 and 60). Plus, the extra 90 degree turn at the end of movement, you could fly in back and forth in a straight line just behind your own deployment zone...

 koooaei wrote:

torblind wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Played a couple games running mellee crons. They look pretty good so far.

Spoiler:

Novokh.
3 destrolords - one with a +1 to save, another one with a +d3 attack scythe.
Transcendent ctan
3x5 tesla immortals
10 lychguards with scythes
2 nightscythes

So far, it was victorious. It basically has answers to most meta lists. It chops knights apart with a weight of scythes and a couple mortal wounds from a ctan. It's really annoying to deal with for gunlines -especially for plasma gunlines as the only things they an shoot at are tesla immortals in the backfield or flyers. It also does ok against enemy mellee due to relatively high touvhness.

It does lack in volume of attacks for basically anything other than lychguard and a relic scythe lord. So, you got to really place your lychguard well and not just drop them unsupported. They WILL die if the enemy has the opportunity to throw some shots in their direction. So, you got to choose tbe best position for them.

Other than that, i think it's a very good 1500 list for maelstorm.

You never had both your night scythes killed turn one?

And supporting your lychguard, does that mean running the destro lords up to meet them as soon as possible? They might not make it all the way for another turn or two.

And what about schaff - what if the AM gunline has 60 guardsmen (his brigade) bubble wrapping his tanks?

All i have is game results. One game was vs an ig list with 120 guardsmen, 5 basylisks and a ton of characters. Lychguards managed to find a place cause he had to move forward to score eventually. And planes ate a lot of fire. But i played a bit too much on the safe side and only charged 2 basylisks. Killed them in one go. Must have charged at least 3. But was afraid of overwatch a bit too much. Anywayz, ctan was amazing with his mw spam. And lords bogged down a lot of guards and ate a ton of fire. So, managed to outscore.

Another game was vs another necron player - more shooty oriented. He indeed killed 2 scythes in one go - but it was turn 2 and lychguards managed to wreck his gunline anywayz. Of course with a help of lords and ctan.

I think you're looking at things more pessimistic than needed. If someone brings a list capable of wrecking 2 scythes turn 1 from across the board, it usually means he's running an extremely shooty and most likely immobile list. In which case you just run around and score midboard. He won't be able to place a foot out of his dz before at least turn 4. By which time you must have scored enough and can go into hiding mode.

Going with the pessimist argument again? Really?

Guys, this is the player that thinks Grey Knights are fine and thinks Crowe is good, all on top of defending Mutilators last edition. You can safely ignore their opinion.

Mr Whiner can have his own opinion. I got results, shared them, here you come again projecting your overwhrlming negativity and denying the results for no good reason other than sadomasochistic satisfaction of being surrounded by the 'everything is bad' aura.

Anywayz, that's what i've got from mellee crons:
Novokh lychguards are dead killy but fragile. They're amazing if you can get them into position and avoid part of the enemy fire. Can do it for example with scythes and fast characters.
Ctan is good. Fragile, once again, but he's a toolbox. Can provide some counterplay against any list. Mellee damage is pretty meh though. No re-rolls and just 4 attacks are not that great. But overall a nice unit.
Destroyer lords are also good. Quite tough and fast. Also lack killing power but d3 attack relic helps a bit.

Army lacks cp cause you do want to fight twice with lychguards and reroll failed charges or crytical rolls, and save some for resurrection of your characters, and get some extra relics...but can't have it all unfortunately.

While that would help, I think they need codes, and thus the ability to benefit from...basically any strategems, or they need their own specific code of some sort. Not sure what form that takes.
I've had 0 success with Praets so far. Wraiths just surpass them in durability many times over.

I thought running 3 DLords + lychguard, and even 2 night scythes was a refreshing take on things. Nothing is bringing is to the final tournament tables anyway

I know some brave soul was running a Necron Army with a Pylon at the Invitational at NOVA. Not sure how far he got with it.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I know some brave soul was running a Necron Army with a Pylon at the Invitational at NOVA. Not sure how far he got with it.

I saw a diagram of playoff matches where a necron player won first round then lost. Think it was a DGuard chaos player he beat.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

But covering that 20-60" gap it can move especially with 90" degree. Turn 1 that's pretty much impossible. If nothing else necron can move along his own DZ. Frankly never seen being destroyed by enemy models ever. Just moving off board. And never ever on turn 1. Turn 3-4 maybe.

Sure, i want my night scythe flying in my own DZ up to turn 2/3, to keep it safe Dude, its supposed to fly into enemy territory and teleport your units in your opponents face. A smart opponent knows this, and will position his units accordingly. I had my xiphon interceptor killed twice that way.

That was on the super rare case 60" doesn#t get you anywhere else safe. That would have been hard for my 243 model ork horde...what army a) gets 1st turn b) fills board so badly you cant fly off. On horizontal that's like 72"x36" covered up completely...good luck.

Seriously show how you kill 3 necron filiers t1 that way. If it's so easy for experienced player as been claimed show it. Talk is cheap.

The fact that flyers can die like that is hilariously gamey, even for GW's standards.

Pilot: "Mayday, Mayday! There are Orks everywhere, we cannot land here!"

Wingman: "You do realize we can just keep flying and shooting, right?"

Pilot: "Initiating self destruction."

 koooaei wrote:
Mr Whiner can have his own opinion. I got results, shared them, here you come again projecting your overwhrlming negativity and denying the results for no good reason other than sadomasochistic satisfaction of being surrounded by the 'everything is bad' aura.

Anywayz, that's what i've got from mellee crons:
Novokh lychguards are dead killy but fragile. They're amazing if you can get them into position and avoid part of the enemy fire. Can do it for example with scythes and fast characters.
Ctan is good. Fragile, once again, but he's a toolbox. Can provide some counterplay against any list. Mellee damage is pretty meh though. No re-rolls and just 4 attacks are not that great. But overall a nice unit.
Destroyer lords are also good. Quite tough and fast. Also lack killing power but d3 attack relic helps a bit.

Army lacks cp cause you do want to fight twice with lychguards and reroll failed charges or crytical rolls, and save some for resurrection of your characters, and get some extra relics...but can't have it all unfortunately.

Any casual results for a casual meta doesn't matter. It doesn't bring anything to the table for us to actually discuss. You think we couldn't figure out Lychguard rerolling their hits kinda helps them? Well guess what? They require so much help going into melee they aren't worth it.

The main point of this thread is to figure out how to beat the top armies. So we should be discussing on how to counter Space Wolves instead of the post you made.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I know some brave soul was running a Necron Army with a Pylon at the Invitational at NOVA. Not sure how far he got with it.

They can average a kill against a Knight sometimes, but screening them is pretty important. Outside the mandatory Scarabs maybe minimum Immortals? Do you have the list?

There is a batrep of a guy bringing 30 foot lychguards to a large tourney and winning 80% games.
I think that it shows you can't just label something bad and than deny any evidence of it being the opposite. Well...you could but you'd end up being some sort of zealot.

If im not mistaking the best necron at nova is 85th and the 2nd best 157th or something like that

mostly played was IK soup and there were still some strong ynnari/eldar/delder lists

Now we can just hope for the FAQ + CA to help other armies

 koooaei wrote:
There is a batrep of a guy bringing 30 foot lychguards to a large tourney and winning 80% games.
I think that it shows you can't just label something bad and than deny any evidence of it being the opposite. Well...you could but you'd end up being some sort of zealot.

Most of the reports here are games nobody cares about.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762099.page

tneva82 wrote:

Seriously show how you kill 3 necron filiers t1 that way. If it's so easy for experienced player as been claimed show it. Talk is cheap.

I didnt say T1.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Seriously show how you kill 3 necron filiers t1 that way. If it's so easy for experienced player as been claimed show it. Talk is cheap.

I didnt say T1.

Well I have been talking about T1 killing 3 fliers like was claimed so why are you claiming I'm wrong when I'm specifically refering to T1 killing 3 night scythes that was claimed to be possible for "experienced player".

Frankly T2 kill will generally require necron player screw up as well or opponent investing huge amount of resources and putting his forces off. And even then not many armies can do that. IG, orks, tyranids. And only orks have reliably army that suits for the task. Though still generall too slow to really do it.

tneva82 wrote:

Well I have been talking about T1 killing 3 fliers like was claimed so why are you claiming I'm wrong when I'm specifically refering to T1 killing 3 night scythes that was claimed to be possible for "experienced player".

I didnt say an experienced player can kill 3 night scythes T1. I said he can do it in one turn.

tneva82 wrote:

Frankly T2 kill will generally require necron player screw up as well or opponent investing huge amount of resources and putting his forces off. And even then not many armies can do that. IG, orks, tyranids. And only orks have reliably army that suits for the task. Though still generall too slow to really do it.

Orks with da jump are too slow to really do it ? IG with move move move order cant do it ? Tyranids with genestealers that can run 90" cant do it ? Pretty much every army can deepstrike, denying the flyer(s) space to go to.

Top necron tournament units in the summer (20+ people tournaments, top 3/53 placings)

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Top necron tournament units in the summer (20+ people tournaments, top 3/53 placings)

No Destroyers?? Isnt that strange or am I missing something?

Yes. They are not that good. Their durability sucks for their cost. They damage is pretty good but it's not broken (and other things are).

Just like Mephrit. It sucks as well. Just like I've said ALL ALONG. However it turns out ALL Necrons suck rofl. Since this is from 201 lists, which means only 1.5% of the top lists is Necrons. And they're ALL running vaults.

Which isn't good. You shouldn't have to rely on a LoW unit to win a competitive tournament.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Yes. They are not that good. Their durability sucks for their cost. They damage is pretty good but it's not broken (and other things are).

Just like Mephrit. It sucks as well. Just like I've said ALL ALONG. However it turns out ALL Necrons suck rofl. Since this is from 201 lists, which means only 1.5% of the top lists is Necrons. And they're ALL running vaults.

Well i wasn’t participating in those discussions but i was reading them and I would more or less agree destroyers are squishy and def. not OP (as some voices suggest to up them because they are broken)

Nether liked Mephrit either. Trap dynasty thats it (worst win % of the dynasties)

EDIT: Funny thing is when people complain about destroyers being OP „they cant just kill 200points in one shooting phase this is too much“ I just remind them a full squad costs 300poins plus a CP to do this haha